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Apple and RealNetworks Alliance?
- Thread starter MacBytes
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If Apple doesn't get Real to use FairPlay AAC's, we can kiss that format goodbye. We need more content providers to offer AAC's or WMA will be the VHS of the 21st century.
AAC is better and more open than WMA, but will die if 90% of content providers don't offer it.
AAC is better and more open than WMA, but will die if 90% of content providers don't offer it.
geerlingguy
macrumors 6502a
Good thing? Bad thing?
I would think the alliance would be a good thing. iTMS is meant to support iPod sales, and if Apple can get more stores to use FairPlay and work with iPod, iPod will sell even more. I, for one, know two people who bought a different player because they wanted to 'leave their options open' for what online store to ally with... And if Real makes a Mac compatible good player, that could be another good thing (make Macs seem better for other services, too).
The only thing I wonder right now is, what if a service goes down? What happens to all the purchased music? If Apple stopped the iTMS, what would happen to all the 50+ songs I've purchased? Would Apple just set up a server to 'authorize' new computers in the future? Would Apple let me deauthorize the songs so that I can use them with other computers/software? I stick with iTMS because I think it will at least be one of the dominant stores, if not the best.
I would think the alliance would be a good thing. iTMS is meant to support iPod sales, and if Apple can get more stores to use FairPlay and work with iPod, iPod will sell even more. I, for one, know two people who bought a different player because they wanted to 'leave their options open' for what online store to ally with... And if Real makes a Mac compatible good player, that could be another good thing (make Macs seem better for other services, too).
The only thing I wonder right now is, what if a service goes down? What happens to all the purchased music? If Apple stopped the iTMS, what would happen to all the 50+ songs I've purchased? Would Apple just set up a server to 'authorize' new computers in the future? Would Apple let me deauthorize the songs so that I can use them with other computers/software? I stick with iTMS because I think it will at least be one of the dominant stores, if not the best.
dernhelm
macrumors 68000
This has to be what Apple was waiting for...
Apple doesn't really care if they sell a million songs from iTMS, or Real sells them, as long as they lock you into the iPod, and no one else's music player. I think Apple has been waiting for these other stores to start lining up to license FairPlay. They'd better have something really big up their sleeve if they can't find a way to make this work.
The only major turn off is Glaser's "or else" attitude. I mean, you must be kidding, right? Oh no! You might line up with M$ instead? It's not like they'd have a ton of other choices, anyway, or that Apple would be drastically affected by that.
Now is the time for Apple to put a stranglehold on the music player market. How long will it continue that the iPod is seen as the best player out there? Apple needs to be in the position where it just won't matter if their player is or isn't the best, because the only viable music stores won't support anything else.
Apple doesn't really care if they sell a million songs from iTMS, or Real sells them, as long as they lock you into the iPod, and no one else's music player. I think Apple has been waiting for these other stores to start lining up to license FairPlay. They'd better have something really big up their sleeve if they can't find a way to make this work.
The only major turn off is Glaser's "or else" attitude. I mean, you must be kidding, right? Oh no! You might line up with M$ instead? It's not like they'd have a ton of other choices, anyway, or that Apple would be drastically affected by that.
Now is the time for Apple to put a stranglehold on the music player market. How long will it continue that the iPod is seen as the best player out there? Apple needs to be in the position where it just won't matter if their player is or isn't the best, because the only viable music stores won't support anything else.
It's pleasant to negotiate from a position...
of strength.
I hope Jobs will at least talk to Glaser, but he could really be inflexible as far as terms are concerned. If you look at Apple's earnings statement yesterday, it was iPods that were the revenue star and not the iTunes Music Store. iTMS is basically a service to promote iPods and really doesn't make a significant amount of money (it may even lose a little). Now if Glaser wants to provide an alternative to iTMS that gives potential iPod customers the "perception" of choice of compatible services, that would be fine. Jobs can afford to be really dictatorial about way Real would be able to use FairPlay, so he won't get hoodwinked like he did by MicroShaft.
Licensing from a position of weakness can be disastrous. Amelio's clone program allowed Motorola, Power Computing, et al. to cannibalize Apple's already-weak Mac market in direct violation of the agreement. Yet, in it's weakness, Apple wasn't in a position to make the agreement have any teeth. In contrast, Jobs could offer a deal to Real that would be watertight and highly favorable to Apple. Let's hope he does that.
of strength.
I hope Jobs will at least talk to Glaser, but he could really be inflexible as far as terms are concerned. If you look at Apple's earnings statement yesterday, it was iPods that were the revenue star and not the iTunes Music Store. iTMS is basically a service to promote iPods and really doesn't make a significant amount of money (it may even lose a little). Now if Glaser wants to provide an alternative to iTMS that gives potential iPod customers the "perception" of choice of compatible services, that would be fine. Jobs can afford to be really dictatorial about way Real would be able to use FairPlay, so he won't get hoodwinked like he did by MicroShaft.
Licensing from a position of weakness can be disastrous. Amelio's clone program allowed Motorola, Power Computing, et al. to cannibalize Apple's already-weak Mac market in direct violation of the agreement. Yet, in it's weakness, Apple wasn't in a position to make the agreement have any teeth. In contrast, Jobs could offer a deal to Real that would be watertight and highly favorable to Apple. Let's hope he does that.
a brilliant move by apple
this is a brilliant move by apple. with the court ruling in europe placing real in an excellent position to compete against the vole's monopoly advantaged music store. If apple plays it smart between the ipod and the industry supported music store they might be able to wrestle one industry away from the lethal game of microsoft catchup
this is a brilliant move by apple. with the court ruling in europe placing real in an excellent position to compete against the vole's monopoly advantaged music store. If apple plays it smart between the ipod and the industry supported music store they might be able to wrestle one industry away from the lethal game of microsoft catchup
CrackedButter
macrumors 68040
If I was Steve Jobs, I would only do this if Real gave me something of value in return. Like full use of the Real Player code so that the QuickTime player can play all Real content. Otherwise, no way. At this point Real needs Apple worse than Apple needs Real...unless there is something good in it for Apple besides just money. This isn't like the HP deal where their exposure alone was worth doing it.
I'm glad Real is approaching Apple, however I wish they would do it without the lame threats to goto MS.
Really Mr. Glaser, how long do you think your company will survive if you partner with MS? Haven't you been paying any attention to how MS treats them over the years?
And before you come to Apple with all these demands how about you show some respect to us Mac users? Like not taking 6 months to a year to release Real 10, oh and please don't make Real 10 suck like it does on the PC, or as an alternative you can let apple incorporate your real media codecs right into Quicktime.
Really Mr. Glaser, how long do you think your company will survive if you partner with MS? Haven't you been paying any attention to how MS treats them over the years?
And before you come to Apple with all these demands how about you show some respect to us Mac users? Like not taking 6 months to a year to release Real 10, oh and please don't make Real 10 suck like it does on the PC, or as an alternative you can let apple incorporate your real media codecs right into Quicktime.
Trowaman
macrumors 6502a
Steve-O, DO THIS!!!
You said before you make no money from the music store, it's in iPods and if the iPod is laft as iTunes only it coulds hurt u in the long run. Charge them 5 cents for each song for using your AAC fun and that's it. YOu open up the real money maker, which is the iPod. GO FOR THIS!!!
You said before you make no money from the music store, it's in iPods and if the iPod is laft as iTunes only it coulds hurt u in the long run. Charge them 5 cents for each song for using your AAC fun and that's it. YOu open up the real money maker, which is the iPod. GO FOR THIS!!!
Don't panic
macrumors 603
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
please do it
sinisterdesign
macrumors 6502
don't isolate us, steve
i've never liked Real, the audio sounds like it's coming out of a tin can & their players are always buggy on a Mac, but they have been around a long time & have quite a install base.
if Fairplay & AAC really ARE that good, don't screw us w/ a policy of isolationism. i adore my iPod & carry it w/ me everywhere, but i'm not stupid, there are PC music players that are surpassing the iPod w/ features & price. no one is going to care if AAC sounds better than MP3/WMA & the iPod is easier to navigate if Apple paints themselves into this holier-than-thou corner, "you must use our player, our store, our format". let's get into new venues (Real) and become THE standard. then wow us w/ a new iPod, THEN you can take that 'holier-than-thou' attitude...
i've never liked Real, the audio sounds like it's coming out of a tin can & their players are always buggy on a Mac, but they have been around a long time & have quite a install base.
if Fairplay & AAC really ARE that good, don't screw us w/ a policy of isolationism. i adore my iPod & carry it w/ me everywhere, but i'm not stupid, there are PC music players that are surpassing the iPod w/ features & price. no one is going to care if AAC sounds better than MP3/WMA & the iPod is easier to navigate if Apple paints themselves into this holier-than-thou corner, "you must use our player, our store, our format". let's get into new venues (Real) and become THE standard. then wow us w/ a new iPod, THEN you can take that 'holier-than-thou' attitude...
matthew24
macrumors 6502
Stay Different
One reason for switching from Windows to Apple for me was MS abusing its propriety formats, if Apple starts doing the same I would really be ashamed. 😡 Apple should stay loyal to only supporting open standards, including fairplay. Steve you could spoil a lot of goodwill!!
One reason for switching from Windows to Apple for me was MS abusing its propriety formats, if Apple starts doing the same I would really be ashamed. 😡 Apple should stay loyal to only supporting open standards, including fairplay. Steve you could spoil a lot of goodwill!!
SiliconAddict
macrumors 603
Jobs needs for one second in his life to stop being an idealist. Anyone would be an idiot not to take Real up on this offer. Even though I don't expect Real to be a major player in the Music Store arena every little bit helps. HP's hPod and Real support would be a good start beyond that I would like to see more cross device support for AAC.
SiliconAddict
macrumors 603
mhar4 said:
God I despise comments like this.
Pepsi sucks. Stay away from them.
McDonald's sucks. Don't do business with them.
Nike sucks. How could Apple do business with them?
Now Real.
Better be careful or the only company Apple will be allowed to team up with is some adult toy shop down in LA.
Grow a pair and realize this IS FREAKING BUSINESS. If Apple want to survive the coming tidal wave of music related products and services they NEED to complete and just because Apple owns 70% of the market for its music store and 30% for music players doesn't mean that can't change.
Realize one and ONLY one thing. This market is about to get a 1000 lbs gorilla tossed into the ring when Microsoft decides to release their music store. Guess what 60 billion with a capital B and a 95% market share will buy MS when it comes to negotiating with the RIAA? Anything it wants. Apple needs allies like HP and they need support from companies like Real. Take your ideals somewhere else because they have no place in the business world.
Here's how the deal SHOULD go down, lets hope in reality it turns out this well.
1. Real gets a license for Fairplay and uses iPod compatible files for their store (Win for Real, maybe they get more than 50 downloads a week unlike all the other music stores)
2. Real makes iPod it's player of choice (Plus for Apple, more iPod sales from uhm...PC users who really like real player and want an iPod?..)
3. Real gives Apple full access to all their codecs AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE, Apple can integrate them into Quicktime, and hell can probably improve them for Real. (Win for both, Apple can give it's customers support for real content that is up to date and in a player that doesn't suck, in return, much like how Safari enhancements make it back to Konquerer Apple can make the codecs suck less and Real can pass the goodness onto their Windoze users with Real Player)
4. Apple can add a link to the default bookmarks in Safari to Reals music store for those Mac users who dont know about/dont want to use iTMS(?) (Win for Real)
1. Real gets a license for Fairplay and uses iPod compatible files for their store (Win for Real, maybe they get more than 50 downloads a week unlike all the other music stores)
2. Real makes iPod it's player of choice (Plus for Apple, more iPod sales from uhm...PC users who really like real player and want an iPod?..)
3. Real gives Apple full access to all their codecs AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE, Apple can integrate them into Quicktime, and hell can probably improve them for Real. (Win for both, Apple can give it's customers support for real content that is up to date and in a player that doesn't suck, in return, much like how Safari enhancements make it back to Konquerer Apple can make the codecs suck less and Real can pass the goodness onto their Windoze users with Real Player)
4. Apple can add a link to the default bookmarks in Safari to Reals music store for those Mac users who dont know about/dont want to use iTMS(?) (Win for Real)
I never even knew Real had a music store. I've never heard of it. I suspect I'm not in the minority here.
if real dissapears i coulnd't care less. their software blows.
There is no point for apple to seek this partnership there is no gain. iPod comes bundled itunes.
There is no point for apple to seek this partnership there is no gain. iPod comes bundled itunes.
SiliconAddict said:
I agree. Once MS is in the game Apple will lose a MAJOR part of it's audience. MS will not care if they take an early loss to attract customers. (Look at the X-Box, now a major player in the gaming market).
Apple cannot afford to act like the elitists they have in the past, counting on sales solely because they think "their product is better." Peope don't care about quality as much as accessibility. What worries me is Apple banking on just iPod hardware sales. At some point, hardware demand will subside - but people will still want new music.
Remember this, MS made most of its early profits from SOFTWARE sales alone. Apple should really look at their past screwups before making any decisions.
If they do partner with Real, Apple must force them to be compatible with Quicktime streaming...plain and simple. And this could be the selling point so Real does not go with MS because MS would for sure FORCE Real to use WMP code, thus destroying Real completely, and I don't think Glaser wants this.
Real will come around.
yamabushi
macrumors 65816
It would be a huge mistake to pass up this opportunity. Competition is unavoidable, so you may as well have it on your own terms.
It would also be a serious mistake to allow aggresive negotiation tactics to bother you enough to kill the deal. They are just being direct and perhaps even sincere. Besides, even if they didn't explicitly say they were considering going with Microsoft it would make sense to assume that this was a possibility.
It would also be a serious mistake to allow aggresive negotiation tactics to bother you enough to kill the deal. They are just being direct and perhaps even sincere. Besides, even if they didn't explicitly say they were considering going with Microsoft it would make sense to assume that this was a possibility.