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Apple Announces 'Apple Pay' Mobile Payment Solution, Enabled at Over 220,000 U.S. Merchants
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It is more than NFC because ApplePay is more than its technological infrastructure. No one is arguing it uses some super-technology NFC, or something that outdoes NFC on a strictly technological level. The point is that the efforts behind and the effects of ApplePay are going to go beyond the technology. The "ApplePay team," or whatever it is internally called, is more than programmers and engineers. It is designers and lawyers and former retailers (and others) whose goal is to produce–as in, make into product–a new payment system. The overall system is the product.
A fully implemented payment system is more than its technology. ApplePay is more than NFC.
Now, there will be those who run around and go on about ApplePay being some magical new paradigm. I'm not with them. Everything we buy includes the cost of development, advertising, legal fees, and whatnot. ApplePay is not unique for being a system that extends beyond its technology.
I just agree that what makes this so cool and promising is not merely the NFC. It's the fact that Apple is poised to actually make it happen. That's somethin'.
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That's 220,000 U.S and less elsewhere...
Thank you very much Apple for your service.
We outsiders don't matter, and never do, even though we also use the same products, but we never see a mention.
I wonder if this is any relation to the U.S not having 'chip'n'pin' yet.
Thank you very much Apple for your service.
We outsiders don't matter, and never do, even though we also use the same products, but we never see a mention.
I wonder if this is any relation to the U.S not having 'chip'n'pin' yet.
But not for an apple device. I mean what is wrong with people and not processing this? No ***** Android devices have had this for years. Apple hasn't. It's a big deal, because Apple does things right.
It is still not more than NFC, it is just a big player adopting it, nothing more.
Only good thing it is that because his presence in USA it will speed up the adoption but the technology, infrastructure and work is exactly the same
I don't think the rest of the world need this Apple feature because we already use it in other forms.That's 220,000 U.S and less elsewhere...
Thank you very much Apple for your service.
We outsiders don't matter, and never do, even though we also use the same products, but we never see a mention.
I wonder if this is any relation to the U.S not having 'chip'n'pin' yet.
I'm not American, but I know about the US banking system because I used to work in it. The US will skip chip and pin. The original deadline for this was 2010 but that passed without notice. The banking system is too complicated to get widespread adoption.
I'm not sure NFC will get widespread adoption either if it depends on an iPhone to be used. There are many more Android phones out there. However, once enough terminals are in place, the banks will probably start issuing cards with NFC chips. This is much easier to implement than chip and pin.
I just want to say that NFC still sucks. Also, by requiring TouchID, they've ensured that everyone who is security conscious will never use Apple Pay. Analog unchangeable keys is something criminals and governments get wet over, not people who care about their security.
What is more?
[NFC] or [NFC + big player]
The second option is [big player] more than [NFC].
This is an incredibly simple concept. There are those on these forums who consider mainstream adoption a tangible factor in calculating "more." They are happy for the exact same reason you are happy, that a big player with a plan might mean wider spread NFC. That is their [our? the devil forgets his advocacy] exact point. Apple means this goes beyond NFC.
Arguments over the definition of "more": misanthropic alchemists trying to make something more of nothing?
The US is not "skipping" "chip and PIN" - we're getting EMV in the US, far later than back in the UK, though chip and signature will likely be far more prevalent than chip and PIN unfortunately (because banks fear Americans have too many cards to remember PINs on all of them)
EMV includes both contact and contactless, and contact is the network mandate. It's happening. In fact, ApplePay might make it happen sooner by incentivising merchants to upgrade to new POS systems which support both contact and contactless EMV.
Now, what we don't know is this - is ApplePay using EMV in its current form (or using a "2PAY.SYS.DDF01" environment capable of a full EMV transaction as opposed to only carrying the data to send a magnetic stripe format transaction)? If they're not today, they need to be by next October. Google Wallet does NOT. Both are secure (unlike the traditional magnetic stripe) due to the dynamic authentication data, though EMV is definitely more future-proof.
If ApplePay is not fully EMV-compliant, then that may be the wait for international launches. Nobody knows.
I'm also getting sick to death of people claiming this is tokenised. I just saw another article by an analyst talking about how much better this is than Google Wallet because it is tokenised. Bollocks. NOTHING Apple has described even hints that tokenisation is being used, what they describe is literally technically IDENTICAL to Isis/SoftCard (except using a fingerprint for the unlock code) and close enough to Google Wallet for it to not be of any security benefit.
Note, though, there IS arguably a privacy disadvantage to Google's method, this is by design and provides valuable marketing data as well as transaction history to the customer - this is neither a pro nor con for Google - Google tracks more personal identifying data but that's also why Google services are so darn good at understanding your needs.
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Your signature indicates you mean this as a joke, I'm glad, I was worried. Contactless is so much more secure than magnetic stripe transactions (though not as secure as a contact EMV transaction).
This might not be a pro or con for Google, but it is a DARN GOOD HUGE con for people who don't want any big company having their data. Lots of people simply don't like anyone knowing that stuff.
Being "by design" is not a justification. It is a factor that consumers will consider. Apple struck a victory by saying they don't touch that stuff. Except if you use a card you have stored on iTunes. But shhh.
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Are you in the US? Because of the cost to implement, American banks flat out refused to start chip and pin ten years ago when the deadline from Visa and MC to get chip and pin was 2010.
When the US gets chip and pin, the rest of the world will be onto a new technology because chip and pin will be easily hacked.
Yes, I live in the States. The deadline for the US isn't and wasn't 2010, it is 2015. Back in England, the deadline was 2007... different countries had different deadlines.
Also, the deadline is for EMV, not chip and PIN. Chip and signature is available in Britain for people with memory difficulties. I guess all Americans are considered disabled by the banks.
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Well, I just discovered something absolutely shocking. Remember how I said that ALL contactless works the way Apple was describing, with a dynamic CVV? It is certainly the way all contactless cards work.
I decided to read my Google Wallet twice in a row to demonstrate this. Then over and over again. Shockingly, I kept getting the SAME track data. Google Wallet fails to follow one of the most basic security features in the base contactless standard. I'm beyond words. Apple is doing nothing special, but Google... isn't even doing the bare minimum.
Realistically, how much does this matter? Not a LOT for credit cards which have great liability protection and it's certainly no less secure than the magnetic stripe. But wow... it's shockingly so much less secure than it could be with even some basic design changes. And I wondered why Google had trouble getting bank partners...
I would assume that Isis/SoftCard does NOT have this same issue...
P.S. I want to clarify I am ONLY looking at discretionary data in Track 2 Equivalent, and looking at how it is presented. Google Wallet could be doing something different in its payment environment for security, I don't know. It just doesn't pass the "smell test" to me - but I am a non-expert. It makes me a bit nervous about Google Wallet what I see, but I am NOT claiming it is insecure. I don't know enough to know that. Just that it is missing some basic security features I would expect for transactions that will end up being processed in magnetic stripe format.
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Correct, it is now late-2015. However, ten years ago, the deadline for North America was 2010, but US banks couldn't handle that, as we know. For a first-world country, automated banking in the US is pretty behind the rest of the world. I know this because I worked in banking and worked on this project.
Outside of the US, my credit card rarely leaves my wallet or hands, because I do all of the transaction - even in a restaurant with wireless portable pin terminals.
I finally understand how it is more than NFC. It is because it includes rainbows, sunflowers and unicorns.
Of course, the US is backwards and will be even with EMV due to the signature popularity. However, what your CLAIM was was that the US would skip EMV. That isn't happening, and there's nothing to skip TO - EMV is the framework for the future of contactless, mobile, etc. It has to happen.
About ten years ago, American banks refused to even look at chip and pin because of various reasons (cost, can't remember four numbers, etc.). So they did nothing to reach the first deadline date. US banks did not want chip and pin.
Now it seems that most of the credit card fraud happens in the US and the US banks are probably taking more of the brunt of the illegitimate charges. So maybe they had a second thought.
My BlackBerry has been able to do this for ages. My Windows Phone could also do it. NFC has been about for time. Welcome to like three years ago Apple.
(I say this because I'm actually disappointed Apple took so damn long with NFC. Everybody else beat them to the punch.)
(I say this because I'm actually disappointed Apple took so damn long with NFC. Everybody else beat them to the punch.)
Yeah but does Blackberrys NFC come with rainbows, sunflowers and unicorns? Lol
It should hopefully take off now though.
It took off ages ago. I've been paying with NFC for a good couple of years now. Granted, plenty stores don't have it, but many do and also banks and cash machines are built with them built in.
As I said, I don't know what took Apple so long. The rest of the world already had this solution ages ago.
True! Not to mention most if not all of those retailers listed already have ApplePay aka NFC (not like it is new and coming soon), it's just that iPhone users don't have ApplePay yet. I've been using ISIS @ Walgreens and McDonalds tons of times not to mention... ISIS gives me $1 credit for every purchase over $1 until the end of the year. Can't beat that!
Its not who does it first, but who does it better. All we have to do is look at Google Wallet to find that out why it failed. The first step for Apple was security with its TouchID. It takes a lot more then just NFC to make a good payment system.
But other than TouchID (which is a password replacement and is something that I personally don't find anymore secure than a password), there is nothing I can see about Apple Pay that is any different to using NFC payments on my BlackBerry. Nothing. It works exactly the same way.
Apple didn't even expand on what else their NFC can do other than mobile payments. The possibilities of NFC are endless, it can do anything from auto pair bluetooth devices, to local file transfer, to changing device settings. Is their NFC the full thing or is it restricted down to just one function like their iOS bluetooth drivers are?
Since fingerprints don't interest me (not with the friends I have), what exactly have Apple done that is different from the rest of the industry that has been doing this for years?
I would argue that Google Wallet "failed" bc the infrastructure through the merchants wasn't/isn't there to accept it. Google Wallet works PERFECTLY fine though.
It's seeming like it is restricted similar to ios Bluetooth drivers, I hope not. Haven't seen anything to the contrary.