Apple Announces Apple TV (Formerly 'iTV')

[Scarpad]

I just got a Promtional Email from Apple on the Apple TV and it says explicitly "transfer" from your Itunes Library. It says nothing about Stream. This Device seems to transfer the content to the HD of the ATV first and then plays it from there, it says it can do this (transfer) from up to five computers. It says nothing about streaming.

I have a G4 Mini connected to my Sammy LCD, it displays natively thru VGA at 1360x768, the images it provides from my xvids and Divx files look quite nice, I have the option of playing with QT or using VLC which actually provides a nicer image. I can play all my Itunes Lossless music and use coverflow to flip thru the disks. I can view all my pictures, I can Browse using Firefox. I can do quite alot.

I like the Idea of ATV, but they don't offer enough for me to switch, now if I owned only a PC or something like a Powermac or Imac it might make sense to buy this Itunes Extender, I think it's these people and Ipod Users that they are targeting.

 

[MacVault]

Apple TV Questions:

By the way, I don't know why but the name "Apple TV" just seems so '80s to me. Now to my questions: Where's the Google & YouTube integration, and if Apple TV does High Def does that mean iTunes is selling High Def content now?

 

[Evangelion]

Your correct, but i'll think i'll stick with my Kiss DP-600
Might not have a fancy interface, but at least i don't need ITunes.

Would have been nice of them to allow you to specify a folder for audio/images/movies, instead of having to have it all in ITunes.

What's the harm in having them in iTunes? What would you gain from having to manually point to a folder containing media, instead of simply having it talk with iTunes? Instead of working on filesystem-level, iTunes abstacts that away.

 

[Evangelion]

I just got a Promtional Email from Apple on the Apple TV and it says explicitly "transfer" from your Itunes Library. It says nothing about Stream. This Device seems to transfer the content to the HD of the ATV first and then plays it from there, it says it can do this (transfer) from up to five computers. It says nothing about streaming.a PC or something like a Powermac or Imac it might make sense to buy this Itunes Extender, I think it's these people and Ipod Users that they are targeting.

Go read the specs.

"Apple TV streams as well as it syncs, so you can pair up to five additional computers and let friends and family stream their iTunes libraries to your TV. Apple TV stores up to 50 hours of video, ready to watch when you are. And if iTunes is still syncing what you want to see — or if you don’t want to sync at all — you can watch a stream from your computer right away."

Link

 

[ftaok]

I just got a Promtional Email from Apple on the Apple TV and it says explicitly "transfer" from your Itunes Library. It says nothing about Stream. This Device seems to transfer the content to the HD of the ATV first and then plays it from there, it says it can do this (transfer) from up to five computers. It says nothing about streaming.

The specs actually says that you can sync the AppleTV to one computer's iTunes Library and stream content from up to 5 computers.

Steve demo'd the streaming at the Keynote when Schiller brought his Macbook onstage and entered his PIN. They then watched a clip from 30 Rock via streaming.

 

[Motley]

Well, there are few problems with Mac Mini:

- Keyboard and mouse

Good point, but I wonder if it's possible to just use frontrow?

- no HDMI

10ft of dvi-hdmi cable is less than $20 at monoprice.

- More expensive

More capable. Throw down some $ for an eyetv and you have a dvr that integrates with frontrow.

- External power-brick

True.

Still the question of how easy it is to hook up to a standard def tv (if thats what you want). Looks like apple sells a dvi - s-video adapter for 10 bucks.

 

[ftaok]

Again: you can play back all content that iTunes can play back. And that content does not have to be downloaded from iTMS. You could rip your DVD's to your computer, import them to iTunes and watch them with AppleTV.

You're right, Steve stated that you could use AppleTV to watch stuff you purchase through iTunes Store AND stuff that you already have. The problem is the formats that iTunes supports. For example, it seems like iTunes doesn't support HD broadcasts that are recorded with EyeTV at the native level (meaning 1080i/720p MPEG-2 streams).

It is what it is. It's a nifty device to use for viewing media that you have on your computer(s). However, it seems to have limitations that may prevent me from buying one.

I really was hoping that it would interface with a computer similar to the way Front Row works. For instance, I can stick a WMV file into my Movies folder and it shows up in Front Row. With aTV, I'd have to convert it first to h264 or MPEG4, import it into iTunes, then watch. A few extra steps that takes time and potentially cuts into the quality.

ft

 

[andiwm2003]

Good point, but I wonder if it's possible to just use frontrow?



10ft of dvi-hdmi cable is less than $20 at monoprice.




More capable. Throw down some $ for an eyetv and you have a dvr that integrates with frontrow.




True.

Still the question of how easy it is to hook up to a standard def tv (if thats what you want). Looks like apple sells a dvi - s-video adapter for 10 bucks.

i liked the ATV when i saw it. but then i also realized that it doesn't record. so i would need an eye tv anyway. since the eye tv doesn't stream i need a mini to be placed next to my TV anyway. so why would i need the a ATV when i have already a eye tv and a mini sitting next to my TV?

and the mini with a bluetooth mouse/keyboard would allow me to browse the internet.

so in my case it seems to be better to shell out $700 for a mini than $300 for a ATV.

 

[mrthieme]

This is a good start in the living room market, although a little behind the times when compared to the full blown htpc's already available. I'm sure it will perform it's stated mission very well and will be a joy to use for those who buy it acknowledging it's shortcomings.

The problem for me is I want an Apple hub in my front room, not an Apple peripheral. If the majority of my entertainment came to me online, through itunes, my needs would be served. Sadly, cable tv (or satellite) is still the dominant method of delivery in most homes. Not to mention the ability to throw in a plastic disc at any time. When a friend brings a new dvd over, I can't really say "I need an hour to rip this, convert it, and import it into itunes". I know we all have other boxes already that do all these things, but I think an Apple experience from top to bottom would really put these other devices to shame.

This could be done with additional boxes, shaped like the atv, or with a whole new larger chassis. The new iphone lends itself perfectly to a cutting edge remote control. We could browse our music collection and control playback without turning on the tv.

As usual, I finished watching the keynote excited about the new products, and a little disappointed, but more than anything filled with the same level of anticipation for new gear I had when I started watching. They have a way of keeping us perpetually on the edge of our seats, credit cards in hand.

 

[ftaok]

i liked the ATV when i saw it. but then i also realized that it doesn't record. so i would need an eye tv anyway. since the eye tv doesn't stream i need a mini to be placed next to my TV anyway. so why would i need the a ATV when i have already a eye tv and a mini sitting next to my TV?

and the mini with a bluetooth mouse/keyboard would allow me to browse the internet.

so in my case it seems to be better to shell out $700 for a mini than $300 for a ATV.

My thoughts exactly. And with Miglia's new TVmini HD+ just announced, I think I may be adding a few components to my TV come March.

I'm specifically waiting for the C2Duo Mac minis, then I'll bite.

Incidentally, the issue with the keyboard/mouse is potentially a problem. In my proposed set-up, I'll be sitting 8 feet away from my 46" TV. Surfing and light Mac work (i.e. Quicken, iPhoto touch-ups, iMovie work, etc) on a couch isn't the best work environment for the Apple BT Keyboard and mouse. I mentioned it in another thread, but what Apple (or someone else) needs to make is a BT keyboard/trackpad combo. Basically, take a Macbook keyboard and trackpad and put it in a nice enclosure. Add BT guts and presto.

Or, make a mouse/pointing device like the Wii remote that will move the cursor as you move the remote. Add a few buttons with a mapping program, plus a virtual keyboard that can be used to type in URLs and emails. I'd still need a keyboard for more intensive activities, but using just the remote for couch surfing would be great for my needs.

ft

 

[spydr]

Bunch of wimps here— if you want a mini+elgato combination, go get it. It is still available for ~$750; then get your external hard drives and peripherals and power bricks and scatter around your TV and entangle your room. Then brag that you got it all.

Whereas I and few others here will choose to get aTV for $299 and connects with my component input only samsung HDTV I have without needing stupid converters. It is dedicated, instant on, smalller, sleeker, outputs 720p (which is all my TV could handle anyway), has digital audio to my 7.1 hometheater system, and serves as a gateway to ALL my music and movies - all with minimal clutter to the existing set up in the living room.

I do realize that this means all the past movies I ripped as .avi won't play- but I bet before the unit gets to your doorstep a fix is found. Afterall avi files (even wmv, if you got flip4mac) are quicktime playable and therefore should be playable. The question is how to make itunes accommodate these files. But I do think this a worthy product for the intended tast at the right price range. Some of you might join, I believe, quite soon after the unpacking pictures are posted and workarounds are discovered to play wmv and avi files!

 

[Motley]

My thoughts exactly. And with Miglia's new TVmini HD+ just announced, I think I may be adding a few components to my TV come March.

Going off topic:
I did a quick search and didn't find anything, what does the TVmini HD+ have over the previous version?

 

[ftaok]

Bunch of wimps here— if you want a mini+elgato combination, go get it. It is still available for ~$750; then get your external hard drives and peripherals and power bricks and scatter around your TV and entangle your room. Then brag that you got it all.

Whereas I and few others here will choose to get aTV for $299 and connects with my component input only samsung HDTV I have without needing stupid converters. It is dedicated, instant on, smalller, sleeker, outputs 720p (which is all my TV could handle anyway), has digital audio to my 7.1 hometheater system, and serves as a gateway to ALL my music and movies - all with minimal clutter to the existing set up in the living room.

I do realize that this means all the past movies I ripped as .avi won't play- but I bet before the unit gets to your doorstep a fix is found. Afterall avi files (even wmv, if you got flip4mac) are quicktime playable and therefore should be playable. The question is how to make itunes accommodate these files. But I do think this a worthy product for the intended tast at the right price range. Some of you might join, I believe, quite soon after the unpacking pictures are posted and workarounds are discovered to play wmv and avi files!

WOW! harsh words.

Anyways, there's definately a market for the AppleTV, no doubt. It's just that it's not for me and some others. Aside from price, the one big thing that AppleTV has is the InstantOn feature that consumer electronics all have. Well, at least that's the assumption.

Going off topic:
I did a quick search and didn't find anything, what does the TVmini HD+ have over the previous version?

The TVmini HD+ has NTSC/ATSC/QAM whereas the original had ATSC/QAM. For me, this would be fantastic to record all of the HD shows that I watch via QAM and the SD shows via NTSC.

ft

 

[Motley]

WOW! harsh words.

The TVmini HD+ has NTSC/ATSC/QAM whereas the original had ATSC/QAM. For me, this would be fantastic to record all of the HD shows that I watch via QAM and the SD shows via NTSC.

ft

Oh that sounds exactly like what I've been looking for.

 

[spydr]

WOW! harsh words.
ft

I am sorry - but I couldn't escape the feeling of unfairly high amounts of negativism towards aTV— just because it is not the device they are dreaming of. One can always get more for more money - the need is to get less (or just enough) for less money.

 

[milo]

If you can't tell the difference between 1280x720 and 1920x1080, get your eyes checked.

If you don't know the difference between *p* and *i* you need to learn about HDTV.

DirecTV HR10-250 Tivo does all the above, with a stock 250 GB drive. I bought mine for $200 with a 1-year contract with DirecTV. I don't think DirecTV sells this model anymore, but their HR20 is similar and goes for $299.

And a years worth of contract is going to cost way more than $99. A quick price search showed the HR10-250 for $599 without a contract. The HR20 looks like it's about $299 (and looks like it has horrible reviews). And it seems to require a DirectTV subsciption ($44.95 per month). With the subscription it's way more expensive than the appletv.

Yes, although you can add it after the fact.

MS sells an 802.11g USB adapter for $99. Nothing would stop them from supporting n, if you can't already do it with a generic USB nic.

Yes, with the 802.11g adapter.

The 360 unfortunately doesn't support digital video out via HDMI or DVI (yet). It does however support HD via VGA or component.

So for the 360 you're looking at $299 plus $99 for wireless network plus the cost of a hard drive. Not exactly as cheap as an appletv, is it? And without HDMI support, it doesn't have all the features either.

But my main point is, why can't Apple combine the best of what their aTV is, with the functions of a good DVR? Even if it cost $US800, it'd be a killer piece of hardware.

I don't think the question is "can". If apple did, is there a market for such a box? Especially if it would probably cost $800? How many $800 dvr's are selling these days?

 

[fastdrive]

Why don't the ATV or 360 natively support divx? Is it because divx is considered mostly as a pirates format?

 

[milo]

For a person who only needs to stream from one computer and listen to their music and watch video on their TV, what benefits does the Apple TV offer over a MacMini?

It's half the price. Do you really expect the cheaper box to do more?

Would have been nice of them to allow you to specify a folder for audio/images/movies, instead of having to have it all in ITunes.

But you can specify which folder iTunes uses, so you can basically do that. I'm not sure what your objection is.

This is a good start in the living room market, although a little behind the times when compared to the full blown htpc's already available.

It's also cheaper and way smaller than those htpc's. How well are those htpc's selling anyway? Do consumers really want "full blown" in their living room?

Why don't the ATV or 360 natively support divx? Is it because divx is considered mostly as a pirates format?

Probably because they're using a codec chip to decode video instead of needing an expensive CPU to do it. It's the same thing as the iPod, custom chips are way cheaper, especially if you don't worry about supporting every format under the sun.

 

[saurus]

Quit complaining!

I am sorry - but I couldn't escape the feeling of unfairly high amounts of negativism towards aTV— just because it is not the device they are dreaming of. One can always get more for more money - the need is to get less (or just enough) for less money.

I am an Apple fan, but I have to agree with this poster. Apple has missed this one. For $299, they should have included at least the following abilities:

1) Ability to play surround sound. If you look at the Tech Specs, it cannot do any surround sound. Why even have optical port?

2) Ability to play VIDEO_TS. Converting DVDs to H.264 (and losing surround sound info) is not really feasible for most people since it takes a while to convert.

3) Still need a DVD player on the component rack. Why not have a slot loading DVD player in it so I can get rid of the DVD player and replace it with this box.

4) Need to play other video formats such as DiVX, MPEG2. Need to be able to play upto 1080p. All those people that went and bought 1080P TVs are going to disappointed.

5) I am not too disappointed about the HD size since I can still use my computer as the main storage area and use the 40GB as just temporary cache. This HD basically allows us to watch 720p movies using just 802.11g by syncing first instead of streaming.

I'm also tired of people who immediate rant off without really paying attention to any of the facts too. It's annoying how everyone rips on this aTV box. No product was meant for everyone - it's a minimalists dream box. Most people don't have nor want their PC/Mac anywhere near the living room! Most people don't want to leave their computers turned on 24/7 either!

Lets break down some of the myths that seem to have flooded this thread - from the list above.

1) I have no doubt the aTV CAN do surround information. The Airport Express has done it for years. If you have surround sound files in iTunes, it plays them just fine. iTunes sends digital information AS IS. The aTV will just PASS this information THROUGH to your receiver/amp as it should, it processed NOTHING!

2) Many of us have been using Handbrake for many months, transferring our DVD's to H264. The option is yours.

3) If you don't want to take the trouble to rip your DVD's, and you're too cheap to buy the content on iTunes, then yes you'll still need your DVD player!

Personally, since I own a Sony Bravia TV with 1080P capability, and I also own a OPPO 981HD upconverting DVD player that uses a Faroudja processor, and I own hundreds of DVD's - I don't intend on replacing my DVD player anytime soon. The fact that this machine can output a progressive signal is all I care about, and I'm happy I can slowly transfer my DVD's to my HDD - yes I would have appreciated a 1080p signal, but if the input information is 99% DVD quality or below in resolution, then it really is a moot point!

4) The ability to play formats unlisted is currently unknown, but since the firmware is upgradeable (remember the 'useless' USB connector), I don't see any reason why this couldn't be 'fixed' for all of you that don't use Apples standard formats. If you're so dead set on using DIVX et al. go and buy Buffalo's latest player. But since most DIVX content people insist on playing is of lousy quality anyway, I don't see the benefit. If you're ripping it yourself, then you've only yourself to blame.

5) If you pay attention to some of the screen shots released of iTunes 7.1 you'll see that the aTV is much more akin to a screen less iPod, and not a minimalistic Mac mini. It's syncing/streaming in real time because you never disconnect it. So the difference between one and the other should be irrelevant.

The new Airport base station has the functionality to be a NAS drive (minus the drive). This looks to fit all the pieces of the puzzle in my book.

Remember, it's not a computer, its a player. Unlike all other PC/Mac based solutions, this one won't need updates monthly (or virus patches for Windows Media players). It's not aimed at single person homes who're tech heads, its aimed at family's and the generation that doesn't want to deal with tinkering with crap - it's plug and go.

The one and only downer that I saw was that the Ethernet is maxed out at 100BaseT. And yes my house is fully wired for gigabit with the hope that this would be gigabit capable, and because wireless basically sucks at video (which is exactly the reason this machine has a HDD!).

 

[iDave]

Good post, saurus.

 

[ftaok]

I'm also tired of people who immediate rant off without really paying attention to any of the facts too. It's annoying how everyone rips on this aTV box. No product was meant for everyone - it's a minimalists dream box. Most people don't have nor want their PC/Mac anywhere near the living room! Most people don't want to leave their computers turned on 24/7 either!
snip....

All very true. I don't think that most people are ripping on the aTV, it's just that it doesn't fullfill some people's need.

For me in particular, I want to use a Mac to record HDTV. The product that I'll be buying uses EyeTV software. Right now, it looks like the aTV won't be able to sync (or stream) the content recorded with EyeTV without having to re-encode the MPEG-2 1080i/720p files to h264 or MPEG4 and inputting into iTunes.

Apple must have their reasons, but to me, the most disappointing thing about the aTV is that it's tied to iTunes. I would have preferred it to attach to folders in the same way that Front Row does.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, but the answer is probably no, is whether the aTV will accept 3rd party plug-ins. It would be nice to be able to tie in EyeTV to aTV. Wouldn't really matter unless aTV was updated to play MPEG2 streams.

All in all, to me, the aTV is between good and great (with insane as the top rating) device. For $300, you get HDTV compatibility, 40GB HD, 802.11n, optical audio, and insane design. If I had (2) TVs, maybe the main one gets the mini and the 100" Home Theater gets the aTV.

ft

EDIT - I do have time before I buy my Mac mini, so maybe I'll wait to see the aTV in the wild to see what other people can do with hacks and work-arounds.

 

[spydr]

Let us talk about when everyone is getting one!

My order ships Feb28 and arrives March6th.

Anyone getting sooner?

 

[janstett]

I thought the standard specification for NTSC was 24fps, and PAL is 30 (or vice versa). Could be wrong though...

Nope...

Film (movies) are 24 fps.

NTSC is 60 fields (interlaced scan lines, 2 fields = 1 frame) at roughly 720x480.

PAL is 50 fields (interlaced scan lines) at slightly higer resolution.

I believe these values were chosen to coincide with the power frequencies in the US/Europe.

That leads to an interesting discussion about transferring movies for display on TV. In NTSC they do a 3:2 pulldown (1st half frame 1 - 2nd half frame 1 - 1st half frame 1 again, 1st half frame 2, 2nd half frame 2) to get to 60 fields, the drawback being slight judder as half the frames are on screen slightly longer than the other half. In Pal, they just speed up 24 fps to 25 fps which makes 50 fields, the drawback is that the movie is played back too fast -- leading to a higher audio pitch and shorter runtimes.

Thankfully I believe Europe is adopting ATSC for HD so hopefully at least that difference will be buried.

 

[janstett]

For a person who only needs to stream from one computer and listen to their music and watch video on their TV, what benefits does the Apple TV offer over a MacMini?

Aside from HD, I didn't see anything in the menu system that you can't do with Front Row via a Mac Mini.

A Mac Mini is at least a fully fledged second computer with a bigger hard drive and a DVD player! I was hoping that the Apple TV would at least have a DVD player as I've resisted getting one because I watch all my DVDs on my MacBook Pro anyway.

It's a dilemma. Average people don't want a computer on their TV. The "Media Adapter" market exists to free up this kind of content to your television set.

Embedded devices will ALWAYS do less than a computer can do. I've worked on these kinds of devices and in the end I use an old laptop running Media Center. Why? My Media Adapter would play AVIs in HD, but wouldn't pass DD, and then wouldn't work with some newer AVIs. The things we download are always evolving into new formats, new containers, new versions of both. A computer can adapt, an embedded device can't.

I tried again with an XBox 360 in Media Center Extender mode, and the drawback there is it will only play WMVs. Arrrgh! Back to the Media Center PC.

I'm a geek. I have way too many computers in my house. The average person isn't going to have a computer on every TV set. They have iTunes music, they have digital pictures, there has to be a way to get these into the living room. That's what they're trying to address.

I ordered an Apple TV for my lab at work, but won't be buying one for home, at least for now.

 

[outlyer]

XVID/DIVX and storage

Honestly, as interested as I am in this, if Apple opts not to support XVID/DIVX, it'll be a huge mistake. Not supporting these popular formats would be akin to shipping an iPod without MP3 support.

Even now, MP3 is regarded as a "pirate" format, yet Apple was well aware that acceptance of the player by consumers required MP3 support. Similarly, consumers - even non-technical ones - are likely to have at least some media in this format and are going to be hard-pressed to understand why the files won't play.

Not allowing local storage is another decision that I don't quite understand. If you're like some people, your primary computers are all notebooks, and requiring people to choose between an always-on PC or a tiny 40GB hard drive is not ideal.

Last, a home theatre is not the same as a portable; you're using - at best - a pair of $100 headphones with your iPod, so AAC is viable, but home theatres cost at least $1000 if not more, and so lossless audio needs to be a viable option. With 40GB, that's unfeasible.

If the Mini shipped with a nicer FrontRow interface, it'd be much more viable for most people.