Apple Announces Apple TV (Formerly 'iTV')

[madmaxmedia]

Also, to get 720p, does the Apple TV "upscale" a DVD you have ripped into iTunes to get the better picture? What would be the specifics on Handbrake or another program to get the best picture quality from a DVD?

Don't know about your other questions, but the best bet is to rip in HandBrake at the native resolution of the DVD.

Upconverting to create a higher resolution video file is only gonna waste space (or ironically make your video look worse for any given file size), since you can't create detail that isn't there. AppleTV will then upscale if necessary to output a 720p signal.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Probably so, too simple. Sending uncompressed video (which you'd have to do to make the device fully codec agnostic) over to the aTV would take up far too much bandwidth.
B

Fair enough, too simple. Next question: is it possible that the stream is converted to one of the supported formats on atv, and that's why the atv only supports those formats when sync'd?? Sounds silly, but how could Apple decide to support the itms, but not itunes? (not that I expect you particularly to answer<grin>) I'm just curious to know why Apple wouldn't support your entire iTunes library - that seems illogical to me. If it's just a day one issue because of the movie studios and signing them up to sell their movies over itms, that's fine, as long as full support comes day 2. I've got a boat load of videos and movies and clips in iTunes and more being created and downloaded every day, most of which are divx - if I can't play them, I don't want the device (which I'm still naively optimistic about).

 

[sjk]

Could it support everything you can play in iTunes in streaming mode, but if you sync to the device on its hard drive, it'll only support those couple of formats??

Or maybe it's the inverse? I vaguely remember something somewhere amongst all the iFarting about Apple TV that it might transcode content it syncs from iTunes into a compatible playback format. I'm mostly waiting for this week's post-keynote stench to settle in favor of a getting some cleaner air of truth. I've long lost patience for the whining about lack of a PVR or a bigger hard drive or waa-waa-whatever… like there's really a reason to belabor those points any longer.

Anyway, some new posts have arrived before I had time to finish mine so I've gotta play catch-up again to see if there's anything worthwhile to contribute to this wave of discussion before something might turn it ugly again.

 

[madmaxmedia]

It can't be transcoding on-the-fly, it would take far too long. (you can stream video as well as sync, so that would need to be in real-time to boot.)

The most likely reason is that the Apple TV has some sort of custom processor that only decodes certain formats. It's not a full Mac with general purpose CPU, etc.

 

[TorbX]

Arh... why the H*** would Apple release such a limited piece of equipment. (Don't answer, it's a pretty retoric question.)

I accept the selling of iTMS. They want people buying and viewing legal payed-for material. But here in Norway, this thing is not useful at all! We dont have any movies or sitcoms in iTMS -- only the music.

And I rant about it, becuase Apple is talking about all the cool movie-features in norwegian on their website. But I cant watch any movies, can I? Why...?... Because there aren't any to buy!

 

[sjk]

It can't be transcoding on-the-fly, it would take far too long. (you can stream video as well as sync, so that would need to be in real-time to boot.)

I was only wondering about the possibility of any transcoding occurring during synching, not streaming.

The most likely reason is that the Apple TV has some sort of custom processor that only decodes certain formats. It's not a full Mac with general purpose CPU, etc.

Right. It seems likely that any relatively new systems (at least) running iTunes "servers" for Apple TV would be faster doing any necessary pre-streaming/synching transcoding than Apple TV might do itself (if it were even possible). And that won't happen in real time, regardless of synching/streaming.

One reason why Apple TV may be so codec-crippled in comparison to similar products (including Elgato's discontinued EyeHome) is to better/further promote H.264 as "the" standard in this context, be it from iTS sales or other sources. Whether or not there's any truth to that a strong objection I have with Apple TV is it not providing enough of a gateway for potential customers' existing content (even legally obtained/owned, like EyeTV MPEG-2 recordings), analogous to how the iPod initially supported the more pervasive MP3 format rather than being locked into AAC.

An implied assumption is that customers may need to recreate pre-existing video libraries for Apple TV compatibility. Or, on the hardware side, upgrade from SDTV to EDTV/HDTV. Admittedly easier, at least the iPod was (and still is) backward compatible with enough content (MP3) to make it a "safer" and more inviting product for people to buy.

For now my hunch is content compatibility could generally be the most important thing Apple TV is lacking, based on what its current specs appear to be. No DVR, 1080p, etc. are secondary concerns. I wonder how well Apple's prepared for responding to the inevitable "will it play (and play with) what I've already got?" questions from interested potential customers, most who are*probably less technically inclined than most of us here.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Arh... why the H*** would Apple release such a limited piece of equipment. (Don't answer, it's a pretty retoric question.)

I accept the selling of iTMS. They want people buying and viewing legal payed-for material. But here in Norway, this thing is not useful at all! We dont have any movies or sitcoms in iTMS -- only the music.

And I rant about it, becuase Apple is talking about all the cool movie-features in norwegian on their website. But I cant watch any movies, can I? Why...?... Because there aren't any to buy!

I agree completely. But this is exactly why I think something's not quite right. By that I mean, either the device must support other formats, or movies and television shows are coming soon to those of us living outside the US. Otherwise, as you say, the device is useless. There'd be no sense in going to the expense of releasing a product that is virtually useless in a certain geography, not to mention the damage to the brand.

 

[zap2]

So a TV with Component Ports and 16:9 won't work?



I'm not sure if my TV has 480p(someone through out the papers!) so I might need to buy a new TV

 

[sjk]

So a TV with Component Ports and 16:9 won't work?

I'm not sure if my TV has 480p(someone through out the papers!) so I might need to buy a new TV

Or not buy Apple TV, which seems to be the direction I'm headed after originally hoping it could be a viable EyeHome replacement component in my slow migration from SDTV.

If your TV can support a progressive scan DVD player using non-interlaced output then likely it'll support Apple TV.

The "papers" for my not that old JVC AV-27F704 say:

• Progressive DVD player (players with an output scan of 31.5 KHz) will not work properly with this television. Set your DVD player's output to "interlaced" or non-progressive mode.

That hasn't been an issue before now since my much older Pioneer DV-C503 DVD changer doesn't have progress output.

 

[sjk]

… either the device must support other formats, or movies and television shows are coming soon to those of us living outside the US.

Incompatible and unavailable content is a key limitation of Apple TV no matter where you are. As usual, Apple has their questionable reasons for releasing products with small market niches.

 

[cicottrell]

Things I want in AppleTV 2

I think people are forgetting how limited the iPod was (version 1) and how good it is now. There are several versions of it. Some people need the full 80GB iPod and are willing to pay for it, others are happy with a 2GB Nano. I think we might see several AppleTV's soon as well.

Some issues will be resolved in the passage of time. 1080p HD, 7.1 surround sound, 200GB Hard disk, DIVX support, International Movie Store, WiFI Max etc. If Apple included all these features now, it would cost loads more. They will come.

What I'm not so sure about is:

Optical Drive. I want AppleTV to play my DVD's, using a FrontRow style interface. Maybe Apple are waiting for BluRay?

TV. Telly is the killer App here and Apple are missing out. I currently use a Mac Mini connected to a CRT TV and use EyeTV to make it a PVR system, which is awesome. Any shows i record that I like, are edited down (ads cut out) and either burned to DVD for storage, saved as a H.264 file or moved to my iPod. Its an awesome setup, but is very keyboard/mouse based (not easy on a telly) and quiet an expensive waste of a lot of my Mac Mini's features. Frontrow is great, but then i have to go back to the desktop to launch EyeTV.

The AppleTV will never directly support Telly because around the world there are so many types. Free to air analogue, free to air digital (Freeview here in the UK), Cable, Satellite, and loads more I'm sure. It would be far too expensive for Apple to support all these, and if a telly stream required converting (from analogue to digital, or SD to HD), would use a lot of processing power. The answer is the USB port. Elgato (www.elgato.com) makers of EyeTV make a couple of USB 'sticks' to get a telly stream into your Mac, then its excellent software does its bit as a PVR. It doesn't matter what your Telly source is (DTT, cable, Sky etc, High def or not), cause you just buy the appropriate USB stick.
IF this stick could be plugged into the back of the AppleTV, and EyeTV software was built into the menu system, the AppleTV is instantly a PVR. It won't matter if you pay £50 a month for Sky (or what ever the equivalent is in your country) or still use old fashioned Free to Air Telly, the signal will stream into the AppleTV. You can then record it, pause it, rewind it etc, just like you do with EyeTV at the moment. The best bit would be that if you want to keep it (or burn it to DVD or put it on your iPod), the Apple TV will stream it back to your Mac.

The beauty of this system is Apple could sell an AppleTV to people or don't even own a computer. Granted, it wouldn't have your music or photos, but add in a Wifi web connection, and you could rent movies from the iTMS (£2.50 a go) and it would stream to AppleTV direct from the store, using the hard disk as a buffer. A link to Google Maps and YouTube could also be included.

If you have a computer with iTunes and iPhoto (or Adobe Album on the PC), you will have EVERYTHING you need controllable by a single remote in your living room. The Apple TV will either sync or stream photos, tunes, movies, podcasts from the mac, and will play TV and DVD's directly. Remember most HD telly only have 1 HDMI port, so that solves one issue, and it also means you don't have loads of remotes littered about your living room. This is the ultimate Killer app.

I would like the Hard Disk to be bigger enough to store ALL my music, photos and whatever movies I have on my mac in itunes, for two reasons.
1) it acts as the perfect backup for my mac. If I lost everything in my iTunes library or iPhoto library, i would cry for weeks.
2) if I get in from work/the pub/wherever, and want to watch some of my photos or listen to some music, I don't want to go upstairs, boot up my mac, launch iTunes and iPhoto then go back downstairs, leaving the Mac on, wasting electricity. Streaming great if my mate comes round with his MacBook, but for my own content, I don't want to have 2 machines turned on at the same time, yet only sit in front of one.

To sum up, it needs

1) Massive Hard Disk
2) EyeTV 2 style PVR software, built in to the main menu
3) Third Party USB TV sticks compatible
4) Optical Drive (DVD or Blu-Ray)
5) Ability to buy and RENT from the iTunes Store.

Chris

 

[ftaok]

To sum up, it needs

1) Massive Hard Disk
2) EyeTV 2 style PVR software, built in to the main menu
3) Third Party USB TV sticks compatible
4) Optical Drive (DVD or Blu-Ray)
5) Ability to buy and RENT from the iTunes Store.

Chris

Seriously, Your aTV-2 sounds exactly like a Mac mini.

 

[aafuss1]

The processor appears to be a 1.0 GHz Dothan with 2 MB L2 cache
Main Memory 256 MB 400 MHz DDR2
Fixed to the logic board
Graphics nVidia G72M, 64 MB DDR2
Bus speed 350 MHz
Hard Drive 40 GB, PATA, 2.5-inch
Ethernet 10/100
Wireless M35B mini PCIe 802.11n (no Bluetooth)
Antennas 2 x 3 (2 Transmit/3 Receive)
USB One USB 2.0 host port (for use when servicing unit)
Firewire
None
Video Out HDMI, Component RCA
Audio I/O HDMI, digital optical, Analog R/L RCA, no microphone, no speaker, Dolby Digital ready (5.1) with HDMI or digital optical

Peripherals Apple Remote (IR)

Dimension 7.7 x 7.7 x 1.1 inches
(197 x 197 x 28 mm)
Weight 2.4 pounds (1.09 kg)
Thermals Active cooling
Power Integrated power supply
45 watt, 36 watt continuous
Video formats supported H.264 and protected H.264: 640 by 480, 30 fps; 320 by 240, 30 fps; 1280 by 740, 24 fps:
MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps
Audio formats supported
AAC (16 to 320 Kbps); protected AAC (from iTunes Store); MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps); MP3 VBR; Apple Lossless; AIFF; WAV
Photo formats supported
JPEG, BMP, GIF, TIFF, PNG
TV compatibility
Enhanced- or high-definition widescreen capable of 1080i, 720p, 576p (PAL), or 480p

 

[sparksinspace]

Seriously, Your aTV-2 sounds exactly like a Mac mini.

which is exactly what I just did with my Mac Mini.. moved it from the office to the living room where it now drives a shiny new 42" 1080i LCD tele.. fantastic, even got the wireless keyboard/mouse combo to be able to run it from the sofa (though the remote is great...)
the optical out goes into a pioneer 7.1 amp.. while the DVI goes via DVI->HDMI into the tele. however, does anybody here know where I can get a cable that picks up the optical out AND the analog out so that I can feed the analog out into the tele as well? its just so that the wife doesnt have to power up the amp just to watch a chick flick...

 

[iDave]

however, does anybody here know where I can get a cable that picks up the optical out AND the analog out so that I can feed the analog out into the tele as well? its just so that the wife doesnt have to power up the amp just to watch a chick flick...

Can't you go from the headphone port on the Mac to analog in on the TV?

 

[cicottrell]

Seriously, Your aTV-2 sounds exactly like a Mac mini.

Aye, if Front Row had five menu choices (ie including EyeTV) in addition to Movies, Tunes, Photos and DVD, I'd be perfectly happy. But it doesn't, and I'm stuck trying to use a Keyboard and mouse on my sofa. It also means I have to edit my photos, import/buy my music and make my movies in my living room, and my CRT TV is crap for use as a display for anything other than Frontrow. Maybe if I could afford a 30 inch cinema display, or a HDMI based HD telly, things could be different.

 

[TribesMan]

The processor appears to be a 1.0 GHz Dothan with 2 MB L2 cache
Main Memory 256 MB 400 MHz DDR2
Fixed to the logic board
Graphics nVidia G72M, 64 MB DDR2
Bus speed 350 MHz
Hard Drive 40 GB, PATA, 2.5-inch
Ethernet 10/100
Wireless M35B mini PCIe 802.11n (no Bluetooth)
Antennas 2 x 3 (2 Transmit/3 Receive)
USB One USB 2.0 host port (for use when servicing unit)
Firewire
None
Video Out HDMI, Component RCA
Audio I/O HDMI, digital optical, Analog R/L RCA, no microphone, no speaker, Dolby Digital ready (5.1) with HDMI or digital optical

Are those accurate? Where did you get these specs from?

From the moment when Steve said it has an Intel CPU and HDD, I was thinking cheap, noiseless office OS X box :>

But with only 256MB RAM... not exactly what I had hoped for

 

[210]

Apple TV 2

I know people are quite disappointed with the Apple TV, so am I. However, there isn't that much more I would like from the Apple TV.

A DVD/HD DVD/Blu-Ray player in the machine (I can then get rid of my DVD player) or

The ability to rip DVDs onto iTunes with the surround sound soundtrack and the Apple TV has the ability to play it (something like Handbrake to handle the soundtrack when ripping and Apple TV using it) or

renting movies from iTunes Store.

That's pretty much it. I think it's a great machine, but if only it could have one of the above, I'd buy it straight away.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Incompatible and unavailable content is a key limitation of Apple TV no matter where you are. As usual, Apple has their questionable reasons for releasing products with small market niches.

And with misleading advertising if the formats are indeed limited. The current ad reads, "If it's on iTunes, it's on TV."

 

[dlastmango]

Glad the Apple tv wasnt available right out of the gate. dont think i want it anymore

 

[WilliamLondon]

I read this in Macworld:

"Under Apple TV's Extras menu is a prominent Update Software command--suggesting quite clearly that AppleTV is a young dog that ca be taught numerous new tricks."

Would that include adding new codecs to support other file formats?? Or would new hardware be needed for that? If that feature is for adding new codecs, I wonder if that would allow 3rd party codecs??

I also noticed on Elgato's site they haven't had a chance to play with it, but are expecting users to have to do an export to the formats specified on the box. However they preface it with, "At this time...," implying someone will change, either their format to MPEG4 or H.264, or Apple supporting MPEG1/2.

I want someone to get theirs hands on the box and tell us more. I'm still hugely intrigued with it - it's still winning out over putting a Mac Mini in my living room.

 

[bgarlock]

USB port: other device connectivity?

Please pardon me if this has already been mentioned, but wouldn't a nice feature be if you could hook up an EyeTV to the Apple-TV, and get Tivo like functionality?

 

[WilliamLondon]

Please pardon me if this has already been mentioned, but wouldn't a nice feature be if you could hook up an EyeTV to the Apple-TV, and get Tivo like functionality?

I read somewhere earlier that it's for servicing the device.

 

[bgarlock]

I read somewhere earlier that it's for servicing the device.

Yes, I read that too, but why not put a port inside the device if it needs "service"? Apple has a way of making service on their products by a little tough, and I just have a hard time swallowing this information. I think it is for some kind of add-on.

 

[iDave]

One would think, if the USB port is for service purposes, it would be a USB B port. But it's an A port, just like on the back of every computer, to add peripherals.