Apple Announces Apple TV Take 2 + Price Drop

[ipedro]

Several media outlets are saying that current AppleTV owners will get a free upgrade in two weeks "when the new AppleTV is released in two weeks".

As far as I can tell, nothing will be different hardware wise with the AppleTV or did I miss something?

At most, the AppleTV's shipping in two weeks will have a new manual and box.... right?

I just went out and bought an AppleTV after all my wishes were granted for the device during the keynote.

 

[Much Ado]

Oh my... Apple have got this one spot on.

If this isn't a success, then online video never will be.

All major movie studios? Check. HD and 5.1? Check. Fair prices and no need for a computer? Check.

Good job, Apple.

 

[nubero]

According to Engaget the AppleTV update brings AirTunes to it:

well now if a second source can confirm that and the ability to have apple tv as one of multiple outputs that play together in sync...

 

[maestrokev]

I was just walking thru Costco tonight, before I browsed this thread, and noticed 160GB AppleTVs for the same price as Apple advertises the 40GB version with the price cut - 239?! Was this a deal they had going before today or just now? I admit I was not that interested in the appletv until they finally announced HD content as they have today, but I guess I know where to go to buy it now.
Is this at all costcos? Better than refurb price for the larger disk!

I saw that price over a month ago and the units weren't moving fast - tomorrow might be a different story. Buy now before they're gone.

 

[Evangelion]

Still no price-drop in EU-store. Come ON Apple!

And speaking of EU.... Why do I get the feeling that SJ's mention that "International" in "international availability of rentals will follow later this year" means in reality "UK and maybe Canada"?

 

[mtbdudex]

How about those with "Full HD" video cameras??
(1080p)

Will the AppleTV allow those to be streamed and played, or will it downsample to 720p??

I currently don't own a HD video camera, but this summer we will be buying one.

 

[zedsdead]

Most iTunes content? I take it that you're referring to TV shows eh? Well I'm talking about movies. Most movies released in the last oh 40 years or so are in widescreen and most of them on iTunes are released in widescreen format.

Even most of the TV Shows now are Widescreen...everything should be by now.

 

[balahir]

I don't think you can, but if you rip the DVD with Handbrake (like I have done), it will work just fine.

Playing VIDEO_TS folders from an external share is a very important feature to me. Will the nitoTV plugin work with the new firmware?

I currently use a MacMini and FrontRow in Leopard as my HTPC, but I would like to replace the Mini with the new ATV, provided it can play the files I want.

 

[ShavenYak]

Yeah I was hoping the QT update today added that but an MKV rip didn't play. I wonder if only the AppleTV will be able to play the new HD DD5.1 films?

I don't know why you guys would expect Apple to support MKV. I think the DD 5.1 is going to just be for AppleTV. If you read the fine print in the new iTunes update, it suggests that HD rentals are only for AppleTV, not for iTunes/FrontRow.

That said, if you want to play .mkv files in Quicktime or in FrontRow, get Perian. It works perfectly.

Playing VIDEO_TS folders from an external share is a very important feature to me. Will the nitoTV plugin work with the new firmware?

I currently use a MacMini and FrontRow in Leopard as my HTPC, but I would like to replace the Mini with the new ATV, provided it can play the files I want.

I suppose we'll know when the first hackers get their mitts on the new AppleTV firmware. Personally, I'd prefer to have a real computer attached to my TV - then I can play Quake on the big screen too.

 

[sonofcolin]

I don't think you can, but if you rip the DVD with Handbrake (like I have done), it will work just fine.

I know it doesn't work now, but maybe the update will change this. Handbrake - I have better things to do than wait 12 hours to encode a DVD. I have the Elgato encoder, which I use for the kids cartoons (1-2 hours instead of 12). As frontrow in Leopard supports video_ts, I was hoping the ATV2 would also have this feature. Guess we'll find out when the update arrives.

 

[Evangelion]

I know it doesn't work now, but maybe the update will change this. Handbrake - I have better things to do than wait 12 hours to encode a DVD.

What kind of computer do you have? On my 2.4GHz MBP the encode is more or less real-time (that is, encoding 2-hour movie takes about 2 hours).

 

[Maclomaniac]

Another good reason to make the rentals available in 720p instead of 1080p: that would have required a hardware upgrade instead of a free software update, so all the existing Apple TV owners would have been out of luck.

 

[hardax]

Not the Netflix alternative I was hoping for

Love Apple, but I'm wondering why anyone would rent a regular movie that they can only play in Stereo and not 5.1.

Anyone know why normal movies aren't available in 5.1?

Now, for an HD title, I get it. But it seems a real downgrade to watch ANY movie in less than 5.1.

No 5.1 with standard def downloads is the deal breaker for me.

Was hoping to be able to cancel my Netflix service and get my movies instantly.

 

[redfirebird08]

Even most of the TV Shows now are Widescreen...everything should be by now.

Yep, I downloaded the pilot episode for Terminator yesterday and it was in widescreen.

 

[CWallace]

24 hours makes sense because it is easier to remember. You start a movie at xx:xx and you know you have until xx:xx the next day to watch it. If you make it longer, then people need to remember it's xx:xx + yy:yy and then they get all confused.

And if people cannot adequately manage 24 hours, what makes you think they can manage 30? Or even 48?

They just need to exercise a bit of responsibility and effort.

 

[stompy]

24 hours makes sense because it is easier to remember. You start a movie at xx:xx and you know you have until xx:xx the next day to watch it. If you make it longer, then people need to remember it's xx:xx + yy:yy and then they get all confused.

And if people cannot adequately manage 24 hours, what makes you think they can manage 30? Or even 48?

They just need to exercise a bit of responsibility and effort.

The AppleTV could display a notice with the date/time the movie expires, you don't even have to look at your watch. In case this startup notice isn't enough, the expiration date/time could be made accessible through the AppleTV menu. Why expend effort when a the device can do it for you, simply, elegantly?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

1080 vs 720 in the numbers

You guys pitching no visible difference between 1080 and 720 need to get your eyes checked, or perhaps you're watching screens too small (or from too far away). There are obvious visible differences when a higher pixel count is displayed...

1080 is 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels to make the picture
720 is 1280 x 720 or 921,600 pixels to make the picture

More pixels mean more picture information can be stored and displayed.

Would you make the same arguments against higher resolution monitors or higher mega-pixel cameras or even HD camcorders? If the next version of iPhoto rolled out with the new "lower resolution" display conversion "to keep overall file sizes" small "because 'most people' can't really see the difference," would you be so quick to accept that as a "fine compromise" because Apple says so?

The whole "most people have" arguments (720 sets or 1080 sets) is also "fuzzy logic" at best. Even if EVERYONE had 720 now, the emerging standard is 1080p. Just because it can be downcoverted to work with a 720 set, doesn't make that standard "over the top," etc. Which do you honestly prefer:
1. downconversions from a higher quality source to somewhat future proof your collection OR
2. upconversion from the lowest end of the HD standard when your next set is very likely to be 1080p?

I have an AppleTV and it is GREAT in many ways!

I also have a 1080 set and a 1080 HD camcorder, and a huge iPhoto library of 8 or higher megapixel photos- all of which would look even sharper and better at 1080p vs. 720. Even if it meant having to buy anew, I was MASSIVELY hoping for AppleTV Take 2 to also be new hardware that could at least max out the native resolution of the HDTV I have (and be able to show the full resolution that my camcorder can shoot without downconverting it to 720).

We Apple-fans constantly praise Apple for innovating and staying ahead of the "crowd" (sometimes leading edge). But again, this AppleTV is still working a max standard that might have been deemed HOT in about 2003. In 2008, the whole CE establishment is pushing 1080p as "true HD." So whether we want to swallow the medicine we are being given by Apple and like it or not, a fully enthusiastic embracing of AppleTV right now would mean another round of buying the same movies yet again in the future when you are finally moved to step up to the standard (that might have legs for a good while) at 1080p.

I wonder how well received "new" Blue-ray and HD-DVD players that maxed out at 720p resolution would fare. It seems even "Joe Sixpack" would quickly dismiss a resolution max of 720 and buy the "true HD" 1080p unit. That is one of several reasons why- IMO- AppleTV2.0 should have been new hardware so that it at least had the potential to display 1080p.
Even if the Studios only want to allow rentals at 720 for now.
Even if any 1080p movies would take longer to download.
Even if owning 1080p movies would take up more hard drive space.
Etc.

The ability for new AppleTV hardware to output 1080p is certainly within Apple's reach. That could have been hardware they rolled out yesterday, or even last year, that would have made AppleTV more appealing to everyone- now and over the next few year(s). Instead someone at Apple is making the decision for consumers that we should be happy with 720p. Wouldn't that be something better for the consumer to decide?

 

[CWallace]

The AppleTV could display a notice with the date/time the movie expires, you don't even have to look at your watch. In case the one time notice isn't enough, the expiration date/time could easily be accessed through the AppleTV menu.

That would be a nice feature, but it would still require the end-user to keep abreast of the expiration time. So if they thought it ended at 10:00 and it ended at 7:00, having the tv show them at 8:00 that it expired at 7:00 doesn't help them.

Also, chances are that the time-limit will be extended down the road. They're starting with 24 hours because it is easy to remember and many delivery channels have the same limits (especially for brand new major content).

 

[stompy]

That would be a nice feature, but it would still require the end-user to keep abreast of the expiration time. So if they thought it ended at 10:00 and it ended at 7:00, having the tv show them at 8:00 that it expired at 7:00 doesn't help them.

Also, chances are that the time-limit will be extended down the road. They're starting with 24 hours because it is easy to remember and many delivery channels have the same limits (especially for brand new major content).

Understood, I was thinking more in terms of a slightly longer expiration window outweighing the convenience of calculating when a movie would expire.

 

[stompy]

You guys pitching no visible difference between 1080 and 720 need to get your eyes checked, or perhaps you're watching screens too small (or from too far away). There are obvious visible differences when a higher pixel count is displayed...

1080 is 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels to make the picture
720 is 1280 x 720 or 921,600 pixels to make the picture

More pixels mean more picture information can be stored and displayed.

The whole "most people have" arguments (720 sets or 1080 sets) is also "fuzzy logic" at best. Even if EVERYONE has 720, the emerging standard is 1080p. Just because it can be downcoverted to work with a 720 set, doesn't make that standard "over the top," etc. Which do you honestly prefer:
1. downconversions from a higher quality standard to somewhat future proof your collection" OR
2. "upconversion from the lowest end of the HD standard when your next set is very likely to be 1080p"?

I'm pretty sure everyone gets 720 < 1080. Not everyone believes in the additional cost and time to make their viewing setup ideal for 1080p.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Agreed Stompy, but even cost- as a factor for a device like AppleTV- should not be that big of a difference. An "AppleTV1080" even at- say $499 (which seems unlikely with HD-DVD devices that also have all the disc spinning hardware, at prices nearing the price of the current AppleTV), wouldn't seem to be very much in terms of cost.

Other costs- like storing 1080 files vs. 720 files- just becomes "number of hard drives" issues, and we see how hard drives keep growing in capacity and plunging in price.

The broadband connection is still going to cost the same whether you are downloading a bigger 1080 file vs a smaller 720 file.

The TV is probably already in the home since AppleTV is made to work with an HDTV.

So, my guess is that the cost difference really comes down to 1080 hardware in the AppleTV plus hard drives for bigger video collections. At least in my own situation, this seems inconsequential cost for some "future proofing" (1080 is likely to be the video standard for a good while).

As to making the time, it should take about the same amount of time to connect a 1080p AppleTV vs. a 720p AppleTV. There may be some time adding Hard Drive storage to their computers, but that too tends to not take much time (especially with Apple computers)

 

[Wingnut330]

In what I'm reading, we can't view our iMovies on the AppleTV. Is that true? If we can't, that seems silly. We can stream music and pictures, why not our own home movies?

 

[BigHat]

No ***** sherlock. Nobody cares about 720p, unless you're trying to defend a piss poor movie deliver service

Never ceases to amaze me how one could know a lot about one technology and be a total moron about another. Crack a book and learn what HD really is. Breaking news to you Sherlock, entire networks broadcast all of their content in 720P. For many types of content a progressive signal surpasses an interlaced one. Action sports comes to mind.

More importantly, unless you're sitting closer than 8 feet to a 50" screen you couldn't tell the difference anyway and mostly likely not even then. Hopefully, someday we'll have bandwidth that support 1080P downloads for those of us with really big monitors, but in the meantime I toast to Apple.
Been in the business for awhile and love my Kuro Elite 60" driver by a Blu-Ray but this is going to fill a need. I too love Netflix and will keep using it. Howver, I don't always have what I want to watch, or what company wants to watch. The ability to pull a movie down from iTunes in a perfectly acceptable (but not ideal) is still a good thing.

Now you losers that have nothing better to do after a MacWorld than log in here and focus on the one percent of the news that isn't ideal need to go take a bath and rejoin to human race.

 

[Shua]

Well I got excited about the apple TV once again until I remembered that the maximum output is 720i for High-Def movies. I still prefer 1080p from Blu-Ray movies. Its for the mass population and not for the Audio/Videophiles out there.

My only issues I see.. $5.00 for a video rental for 24 hours. I can have one Blu-Ray / DVD checked out from NetFlix at a time for $8.99. That works out to 14 Movies a month for $8.99 if I watch them the day they arrive.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

In what I'm reading, we can't view our iMovies on the AppleTV. Is that true? If we can't, that seems silly. We can stream music and pictures, why not out own home movies?

No Wingnut. That is not correct. You can output iMovie creations to files (very easily by the way) and they will play just fine on AppleTV. If you shoot many home movies, this is one of the BEST features (like easy access to iPhoto libraries on the biggest screen in the house), because it makes your movies immediately available on demand (rather than having to hook up the camcorder or find the right DVD, etc.)

iMovie (and Quicktime Pro) has an AppleTV output setting which results in a file that plays just fine. And if you shoot with a HD camcorder, it will yield really great movies, sharper than any home movies you've ever seen.