Apple Announces Find My Network With Support for Third-Party Devices

[hybrid_x]

What I really want to know is whether HomeKit can use these ultra-wideband devices as part of a "beacon" network to triangulate and locate devices – say, within a home – and trigger automations and scenes based on their proximity to a user and their watch or phone. For example, instead of putting tags on objects, put them in rooms.

 

[827538]

this really is not an advantage nor has anything really tangible in Apples ecosystem.
WideBand is also in Galazy S20 devices and upcoming smartphones as well - it’s not unique to Apple and anyone with a compatible phone will find the target product you’ve lost or searching for. This is simply a service.

honestly what would be game changing is not AirTags LMAO it would be collaboration with all companies implementing WideBand so that we the consumer does NOT have to rely on an iOS device ONLY to locate something lost or stolen it would be that Android and iOS devices and Macs and Windows devices COULD assist in finding the lost item. THAT is game changing.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

I'm looking forward to Apple's implementation because of the sheer volume of iPhone/iPad/Mac users which all act as location listening posts. Samsung devices are far less common where I live (UK/US). If I'm A Samsung user then I will not get the advantage of all those Apple devices.

Sure, but I don't see it happening.

 

[827538]

Or people putting them in/on their pets when they go missing.

A mini Airbag for pets or even children would be useful. My wife panics if she hasn't held our baby in 10 minutes.

 

[sidewinder3000]

How about making it possible to actually find AirPods with this? The criteria for finding AirPods with FindMy is so ridiculous that it could never be usable.

Hyperbole will get you nowhere. In some situations FindMy is very helpful for locations stray AirPods. Other times, it’s not. They could improve it’s utility by adding the ability to track the case, rather that just making the individual buds beep. But saying it’s ”so ridiculous that it could never be usable” simply isn’t true.

 

[patent10021]

They have Bluetooth range only, meaning only up to around 20 meters outside. That is why the network's value depends on each and everyone with an iDevice to send constant "pings" in order to tell everyone where their things are. These are anonymous and are sent encrypted to Apple's servers once a phone is close to a tracker tag. So everyone is dependent on internet connectivity and that is why as many people as possible needs to be in the crowdsourced network.

Yes, so are we assuming that everyone standing around the baggage carousel has BT on so I can find my bags. But this would be useless even if that was the case.

Heck, with this limitation you couldn't even find your cat in the hood. My friend can already find her cat on her phone with a little tag she put on the cat's collar. That was already over a year ago.

What if I want to track my parcel as it flies over the Pacific Ocean and all over Japan? I guess I would need to develop my own tags that have real GPS chips inside.

I don't see how trying to find something that is within BT range needs a device for finding. That item would have to be smaller than the tag itself to be that "losable".

 

[Rigby]

No, no alerts of nearby "lost" items - the purpose is not to create a worldwide lost-and-found system (or find-and-keep, like someone combing a beach with a metal detector), or a system for tracking and apprehending thieves.

The only active parties to the recovery of lost items should be the person who has stumbled across that item, the owner of the item, and if necessary, law enforcement. Everyone else is a silent, un-knowing participant - their iPhone detects the presence of a tagged object and silently and anonymously relays that location information to Apple, which then routes the information to the owner of the object.

But that would make it impossible to detect if somebody is using their tag as a cheap tracking device to track another person's location, as discussed above.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Hyperbole will get you nowhere. In some situations FindMy is very helpful for locations stray AirPods. Other times, it’s not. They could improve it’s utility by adding the ability to track the case, rather that just making the individual buds beep. But saying it’s ”so ridiculous that it could never be usable” simply isn’t true.

1. They have to be out of the case.
2. They have to be connected to the device.
3. The battery can't be dead.

1. This is ridiculous and seriously limits the scenarios in which it can be found.
2. Very unlikely unless they are just a few feet away from you. When are you ever going to needing to use Find My to locate an AirPod that is so close by that it is out of the case and still connected to your device? If I drop on the floor while using it, I bend down and pick it up. I don't take out my phone and use Find My.
3. This might seem obvious, but if the AirPod is out of the case and is missing...odds are it is dead too by the time you start looking for it. A method that doesn't require a battery would make a lot more sense.

 

[fishkorp]

FYI, not sure if has been posted, haven’t read all comments. Items specifically designed for tracking people or pets are not allowed. Got my rejection from the program for this reason.

 

[icanhazapple]

FYI, not sure if has been posted, haven’t read all comments. Items specifically designed for tracking people or pets are not allowed. Got my rejection from the program for this reason.

There is nothing preventing the devices from being used this way though. It's just that Apple isn't allowing these devices to be marketed that way. Apple is very possessive over how things are perceived/image.

 

[fishkorp]

There is nothing preventing the devices from being used this way though. It's just that Apple isn't allowing these devices to be marketed that way. Apple is very possessive over how things are perceived/image.

Something like a keychain or a clip on, sure. My device is literally a dog collar with the hardware embedded inside of the collar. So not on a tag, but the collar itself. There’s no way I can dance around what the intention is.

 

[icanhazapple]

Something like a keychain or a clip on, sure. My device is literally a dog collar with the hardware embedded inside of the collar. So not on a tag, but the collar itself. There’s no way I can dance around what the intention is.

Ah. Interesting, sorry to hear that it didn't work out. Btw, Apple mentioned the final UWB spec would be distributed this Spring; is the draft UWB spec available?

 

[fishkorp]

Ah. Interesting, sorry to hear that it didn't work out. Btw, Apple mentioned the final UWB spec would be distributed this Spring; is the draft UWB spec available?

What’s available prior to acceptance is very limited. I’m guessing once accepted more information is available (the spec, recommended chipsets, etc).

 

[DeepIn2U]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

I'm looking forward to Apple's implementation because of the sheer volume of iPhone/iPad/Mac users which all act as location listening posts. Samsung devices are far less common where I live (UK/US). If I'm A Samsung user then I will not get the advantage of all those Apple devices.

Sure, but I don't see it happening.

sherr volume? Apple has a billion devices - that’s NOT just iPhones.

what you’re talking about is trees.

My forest is Appel is doing a service - the last paragraph of this article (sorry the Find my article) Apple specifically states why it’s doing this. I’m taking forest having all competitors and companies using find my as an API and industry standard. There would be no need to just think of Apples implementation.

ps see my post in the announcement article.

 

[Arsenikdote]

Maybe it's just the way I define "high value?" That's high-dollar-value (price) per cubic inch/cm of store display space. Let's say a two-pack or three-pack of AirTags priced at $49.99 in a box similar in size to a Lightning to USB cable or an iPhone leather case (very much the way Tiles are packaged). In terms of revenue-per-cubic-inch/cm, iPhone, Apple Watch, MacBooks, and the accessory wall are far more profitable than the average iMac or large screen display (the answer to the question, "Why doesn't Apple sell an actual Apple television?").

This is why a fairly small gourmet foods shop does so well on a sales-per-square-foot basis. $40 bottles of artisanal extra-virgin olive oil, wedges of $35/lb. cheese, tiny $10 envelopes of Spanish saffron, $25/lb. Parma ham, $10 loaves of bread vs. $2 bottles of ketchup, $5/lb. pre-sliced American cheese, large packages of common table salt, $5/lb. domestic ham, and $2.50 bags of hot dog buns at the supermarket. Sure, the supermarket is drawing a much larger clientele and selling a much wider variety of goods, but the scale of the enterprise has to be huge in order to be profitable.

I can totally understand that perspective for smaller companies. For Apple since the entire "Wearables, Home, & Accessories" lineup makes up ~10% of the annual revenue, it wouldn't make business sense to worry about an item that would make up a fraction of that. Remember that the Apple Watch and the AirPods lines are all in this category. If you look at what analysts have estimated the sales of those two product lines at, you are left with probably 1-2% of their total revenue for ALL home and accessory sales.

A company of Apple's size doesn't give too much effort towards something that would be 0.01% or less of their sales. Everyone uses the high priced accessories as a way Apple makes a ton of money. But the math shows a much different story. Its not that there wouldn't be a profit margin, in fact based on the cost of the competitive products, the margin is high. But they just don't care because it doesn't impact the business enough. If a company like Apple focused on those tiny details it would derail the major initiatives of the company.

I am not saying they WON'T release the product, who knows! I am saying that if they do or don't release it won't really mean much to them since it won't be the high revenue high profit products that make up the bulk of their hardware revenue. It might come and go like we have seen with a lot of other products, even ones that sold well (RIP Airport).

 

[jazz1]

So are Tile devices supported in "Find My"???

 

[iGobbleoff]

I just registered my headphones with the Tile app, but it doesn't appear in the Find My app

 

[ozaj]

Ok im a little confused, will Tile existing range come to the platform? I don't have many and am awaiting apples airtags announcement, but seeing as they look like just fobs, maybe not work for me, the Tile slip that is in the shape of a credit care is of great benefit for my partner and I, so be nice to introduce it into the ecosystem

 

[fredrik9]

Yes, so are we assuming that everyone standing around the baggage carousel has BT on so I can find my bags. But this would be useless even if that was the case.

Heck, with this limitation you couldn't even find your cat in the hood. My friend can already find her cat on her phone with a little tag she put on the cat's collar. That was already over a year ago.

What if I want to track my parcel as it flies over the Pacific Ocean and all over Japan? I guess I would need to develop my own tags that have real GPS chips inside.

I don't see how trying to find something that is within BT range needs a device for finding. That item would have to be smaller than the tag itself to be that "losable".

Well I don’t know about the tags that Apple has partnered up with but Tile tags have speakers so you can play a sound to find stuff. In addition, I believe Apple will add the U1 functionality to pinpoint pretty much the exact location of an item in a room. That cat will then of course be very findable.

Tracking a parcel as it flies over the Pacific Ocean? In that case, as long as someone with a Apple device gets within bluetooth range of your tag, then you will be able to find it as soon as they have an internet connection (again). To have GPS chips in every tag is not feasible as they would cost so much more and the battery would drain in an instant, and you would have to have internet connectivity across the globe in this case which would require some sort of consumer plan that spans across countries (would be very expensive or impossible). Also, why track a parcel yourself when there are numerous services that track your parcels for free already?

So the bluetooth range is very dependent on a lot of devices out in the wild (fortunately that is Apple’s Royal Flush) and when close by, sounds or U1 wideband would allow you to find your item quickly.

 

[GrannySmithPro]

find my..... dignity.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I can totally understand that perspective for smaller companies. For Apple since the entire "Wearables, Home, & Accessories" lineup makes up ~10% of the annual revenue, it wouldn't make business sense to worry about an item that would make up a fraction of that. Remember that the Apple Watch and the AirPods lines are all in this category. If you look at what analysts have estimated the sales of those two product lines at, you are left with probably 1-2% of their total revenue for ALL home and accessory sales.

A company of Apple's size doesn't give too much effort towards something that would be 0.01% or less of their sales. Everyone uses the high priced accessories as a way Apple makes a ton of money. But the math shows a much different story. Its not that there wouldn't be a profit margin, in fact based on the cost of the competitive products, the margin is high. But they just don't care because it doesn't impact the business enough. If a company like Apple focused on those tiny details it would derail the major initiatives of the company.

I am not saying they WON'T release the product, who knows! I am saying that if they do or don't release it won't really mean much to them since it won't be the high revenue high profit products that make up the bulk of their hardware revenue. It might come and go like we have seen with a lot of other products, even ones that sold well (RIP Airport).

Your argument is totally valid from the perspective of total company revenues. I call it the, "Hardly seems worth the bother" argument.

I'm coming from it from a different direction - the sales efficiency of retail stores. This extends not only to the 500 or so Apple-owned stores, but any retailer that dedicates floor/shelf space to Apple products. Those accessory displays pull in a lot of revenue in a small amount of space.

The "Hardly seems worth the bother" argument can be a trap for large businesses. Even a large business doesn't have to do everything in large increments. Certainly, a product that accounts for 10% of company revenue is going to gain much more notice for the team behind it (career advancement, etc.), the financial media, etc. than some "piddling" 0.01% revenue item, but there's an old saying, "Look after the pennies and the pounds take care of themselves." A "small" business enterprise within the scope of a large enterprise may seem small only by comparison. Corporate operations may seem more efficient by having fewer enterprises to administer, but a dollar is still a dollar. If it's worth it to the owners and management of Tile to run that business, why wouldn't it be worth it to Apple to have a product line of similar size?

That's why Apple press comments often include statements like, "This would be a Fortune 150 business if operated independently." There are countless "small" businesses out there that are highly profitable for their owners. Should those owners pack it in simply because their businesses are a small fraction of the national economy?

 

[jlua]

I’ve long been getting the sense that AirTags wasn’t a product but instead a technology like AirPrint and AirPlay that third party manufacturers could integrate into their products.

With built in Find My capability, I don’t see much of a market for Apple to introduce its own. Apple is already highlighting the Chipolo key finder, identical to what an AirTag was rumoured to be. What will an Apple AirTag do differently?

I’m guessing Apple saw the potential Tile lawsuit and didn’t think it was worth piling on another example of monopoly that can aide in making an antitrust case against them, and decided it wasn’t worth the meagre revenue from $30-$50 tags.

The big difference, I think, is that the Chipolos -for instance- communicate only with other Chipolo devices when out of reach. That is a major limitation. While an Apple AirTag would communicate with all iPhones. The difference is huge, if it is so.

 

[DailySlow]

Oh well. The Tile I stuck on my [now] ex-wife's lover's car is pooped out anyway. Bring it on Apple.

 

[sidewinder3000]

1. They have to be out of the case.
2. They have to be connected to the device.
3. The battery can't be dead.

1. This is ridiculous and seriously limits the scenarios in which it can be found.
2. Very unlikely unless they are just a few feet away from you. When are you ever going to needing to use Find My to locate an AirPod that is so close by that it is out of the case and still connected to your device? If I drop on the floor while using it, I bend down and pick it up. I don't take out my phone and use Find My.
3. This might seem obvious, but if the AirPod is out of the case and is missing...odds are it is dead too by the time you start looking for it. A method that doesn't require a battery would make a lot more sense.

Great. Study science for 20 years and figure out a way to get around the laws of physics that currently prevent your ridiculous expectations. Look forward to your solutions.

 

[Arsenikdote]

Your argument is totally valid from the perspective of total company revenues. I call it the, "Hardly seems worth the bother" argument.

I'm coming from it from a different direction - the sales efficiency of retail stores. This extends not only to the 500 or so Apple-owned stores, but any retailer that dedicates floor/shelf space to Apple products. Those accessory displays pull in a lot of revenue in a small amount of space.

The "Hardly seems worth the bother" argument can be a trap for large businesses. Even a large business doesn't have to do everything in large increments. Certainly, a product that accounts for 10% of company revenue is going to gain much more notice for the team behind it (career advancement, etc.), the financial media, etc. than some "piddling" 0.01% revenue item, but there's an old saying, "Look after the pennies and the pounds take care of themselves." A "small" business enterprise within the scope of a large enterprise may seem small only by comparison. Corporate operations may seem more efficient by having fewer enterprises to administer, but a dollar is still a dollar. If it's worth it to the owners and management of Tile to run that business, why wouldn't it be worth it to Apple to have a product line of similar size?

That's why Apple press comments often include statements like, "This would be a Fortune 150 business if operated independently." There are countless "small" businesses out there that are highly profitable for their owners. Should those owners pack it in simply because their businesses are a small fraction of the national economy?

Interesting perspective. If Apple decides to launch the product I would totally agree on this approach. I wasn't pondering what would happen IF they launch it, I was considering the question on whether they would put the effort into launching it in the first place.

Tile, in nine years and I think 5 rounds of investing, they still aren't able to stabilize the company and market enough to go public. That is not to say they are not successful or have a flawed business model. I just think if the market was good enough to enter into you would have already seen Tile go public and the fact they haven't yet been able to, in my mind, casts doubt on Apple entering into the same space.

Also, this feels a lot like when HomeKit first launched. People were saying that Apple would release smart home devices but since launch in 2014 they haven't (unless you consider the AppleTV and HomePods, but those are controllers more than devices). The fact that Apple released the Find My platform and didn't release the device, I believe is a sign against it becoming a product. Not 100% certain of course, who knows! But iIt's not like they haven't had years to work on such a simple device. In the same amount of time Tile has released 3 different versions, so Apple is more than capable of releasing a device if they so choose. IF they do release it though, I am sure it will occupy a space in the stores, and for its size, might be a great addition. I am sure they will give it attention and such. And who knows, maybe Apple sees some bigger initiative that this would tie into and would launch this product.

I guess we will see, but how long does one wait before finally saying that Apple is not actually releasing a product just shown off in some sketches? It has already been two years of "imminent release" and now even a framework for third parties to release competing products that would have the same exact functionality. Eh, I guess we could give if a couple more years for those who really want an Apple version of a Tile?

 

[fredrik9]

1. They have to be out of the case.
2. They have to be connected to the device.
3. The battery can't be dead.

1. This is ridiculous and seriously limits the scenarios in which it can be found.
2. Very unlikely unless they are just a few feet away from you. When are you ever going to needing to use Find My to locate an AirPod that is so close by that it is out of the case and still connected to your device? If I drop on the floor while using it, I bend down and pick it up. I don't take out my phone and use Find My.
3. This might seem obvious, but if the AirPod is out of the case and is missing...odds are it is dead too by the time you start looking for it. A method that doesn't require a battery would make a lot more sense.

I agree that it is limited but still useful. If you drop it in the sofa or something and can't find it. My number one example is when I dropped my Airpod in snow. I was just taking them out of the case and they are ridiculously slippery when you just hold them up top, so I dropped it. I thought okay I just bend down and find it but it was impossible to find it even though I thought it was right at my feet. So I used Find My. One of the few useful situations I admit but still, it was a lifesaver that time.