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Yeah, this video thing has been taking off for a year now....

As Carville would say: "It's the PRICE, stupid!"

At $4, it would take 4 movies a month to pay for your 3-at-home Netflix or Blockbuster subscription. At Netflix, I get them delivered the next day. I get full DVD quality for SD, or full HD-DVD/BR quality for titles available in these formats. I get them the day after release. I also get 17 hours of streaming content, all for the same price.

People are stupid, but not THAT stupid....
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...
 
Over 1000 movies - available 30 days after the DVD release of the film.

It was in the Keynote and at the top of this thread... what a bummer.

Yeah, see that now. Thanks.

That really sucks. I can't imagine renting a "new release". If I've waited 30 days after everyone else, I might as well wait a few more weeks and get it 25% cheaper. On the other hand, I can't see myself waiting 30 days after release very often either.

So, it seems the only utility here is in the "library" titles. That's where a whim can take seed and be satisfied. Cost there is $229 to get in the door, and $2.99 each. Of course, if you want 5.1 sound (which, again, I almost always will on most movies) you have to spend $4.99 for the HD version, assuming it exists for the given title.

Sigh. I hate to say Apple screwed up here. As I've said before: them's words that will almost always come back to haunt. But still. I think Apple (and the studios) have pulled meager defeat out of the jaws of stunning victory here.

Again, in dream-world, the model is this:

  • Releases same day as DVD. Eventually this might end up being the same day as theatrical release. One release date for "home video" is the only model which makes sense.
  • $1.99 one-day rental, $3.99 one-week rental
  • Easy and automated "upgrade" options (upgrade expired rental from 1-day to 7-day for $2; upgrade to Unlimited [buy] for difference between rental and purchase price).
  • DVD "Extras" available for download (buy-only) at small charge (as a unit for each DVD). Charge $2 standard rate, up to $5 for significantly involved bonus disk packages.
  • Allow burning of bought titles to DVD with auto-play or automatically-generated menus (Play, Chapters, Extras if bought)

The above would rock the home video industry, and still allow significant profit margins for Apple and the Studios (unfortunately, not for WalMart or Best Buy). I would change to a download rental system with the above terms in an instant, and drop Blockbuster.

Unfortunately, what they gave us is priced on par with existing services, loses in convenience and utility comparisons. With Blockbuster TotalAccess I'm getting up to 10-15 movies a month for $17 (some months I don't take advantage of this bandwidth, though). With a $20 budget, I'd get 4 HD movies or 6 SD library titles, with the only tangible benefit of not having to pick what I'm going to watch until a few minutes before it starts. That convenience is not worth cutting my movie-watch rate in half (or more than doubling my movie-watching budget)!

To break into this industry they need shock and awe. They gave us ho-hum.
 
I am voting negative because I want HD on my iTunes not just "DVD quality." I do not want to buy a freakin' AppleTV for HD rentals.
 
I am voting negative because I want HD on my iTunes not just "DVD quality." I do not want to buy a freakin' AppleTV for HD rentals.

Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?
 
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...

Exactly, same with me. I dumped Netflix years ago because I only watch movies every once in a while.
 
Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

The only place HD rentals is mentioned (so far) is on the AppleTV section of Apple's website. If you look at Apple's info for iTunes rentals they only mention the standard def options of $2.99 & $3.99...

So it is still speculation at this point, but with some reasoning to back it up.
 
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...

If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:
  1. You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.
  2. True DVD quality, not "DVD Quality". 720x480 resolution. 5.1 surround sound. Apple's SD offers less resolution and sound quality for less money ($1-2 savings per month), and Apple's HD offers slightly better resolution and same sound quality for the same price. While most DVD are designed to avoid compression artifacts (because the space is there and paid for if you use it or not), experience with download services shows a tendency for over-compression to the point of highly-degraded video quality. It would not be surprising to see the HD picture with less fidelity than the DVD picture. But, that remains to be seen.
  3. You probably already own a DVD player. No $229 start-up fee.
  4. 90,000 movies in the library to choose from, today. "1,000"? Pshaw!
  5. Immediate availability of new DVD releases. No 30-day penalty box for your movies.
  6. Queue management, allowing easy maintenance of "wish lists" for movies.

:apple:TV Pros:
  1. You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
  2. Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.

Anything I missed?

Unless your rental rate is below one movie per month, Netflix has a plan which works better than renting, monetarily. Of course, they hope the low-end plan will spark a desire to watch more than 2 movies per month and you'll move up in their rate structure (the next plan is almost twice as expensive at $8.99), but Apple would love the same thing. Apple's service quickly stops making sense when you watch multiple movies (or TV shows on DVD) per month.
 
If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:
  1. You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.
  2. True DVD quality, not "DVD Quality". 720x480 resolution. 5.1 surround sound. Apple's SD offers less resolution and sound quality for less money ($1-2 savings per month), and Apple's HD offers slightly better resolution and same sound quality for the same price. While most DVD are designed to avoid compression artifacts (because the space is there and paid for if you use it or not), experience with download services shows a tendency for over-compression to the point of highly-degraded video quality. It would not be surprising to see the HD picture with less fidelity than the DVD picture. But, that remains to be seen.
  3. You probably already own a DVD player. No $229 start-up fee.
  4. 90,000 movies in the library to choose from, today. "1,000"? Pshaw!
  5. Immediate availability of new DVD releases. No 30-day penalty box for your movies.
  6. Queue management, allowing easy maintenance of "wish lists" for movies.

:apple:TV Pros:
  1. You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
  2. Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.

Anything I missed?

Unless your rental rate is below one movie per month, Netflix has a plan which works better than renting, monetarily. Of course, they hope the low-end plan will spark a desire to watch more than 2 movies per month and you'll move up in their rate structure (the next plan is almost twice as expensive at $8.99), but Apple would love the same thing. Apple's service quickly stops making sense when you watch multiple movies (or TV shows on DVD) per month.

the ability to watch on ipod/iphone is the only benefit i care about and the one benefit that locks me to use itune.
 
First post

so. . . this is my first post on here . . . :apple: TV
I get . .
1. From a software update (not hardware) I can now watch HD + Dolby . . .
2. I can rent movies now, directly from the box . . (hooray for american lethargy!!)

I don't get . . .
1. PVR . . .
2. HD/Cable Tuner

I currently have Tivo Service [$17/mo] (which I would love to get rid of) and Netflix [$10/mo or 1 movie-at-a-time]

I just switched to the comcast HD/PVR box . . . so I can get rid of Tivo (SWEET!)

based on my watching patterns I really can only get to about 1 to 2 movies a month . . . after doing my best to keep up with my 1-2 tv shows.

All of the movies I have in my queue are either older movies that I just didn't have time to go see at the theatre or indie/foreign films that I know will never show up on something like iTunes (big Almadovar fan).

BUT. . . . netflix does not have an "instant download feature for macs. . . bad netflix!!

If I need a see a movie so bad that I just can't wait . . . I'll spend the $10 to see the movie in all it's "stadium seeting" glory.

Do I buy the :apple:TV . . . soon as my checkbook says it's feasible. . . one will be sitting in my living room.

As far as product . . .
I think apple got it right in being able to add features like HD/Dolby through a software makes the product worth paying for in the long run. So what else can they add with a software update????

As far as the pricing . . .
$10 [$12 if you're in NYC] = 1 theatre movie = 2 iTunes HD Rentals = Unlimited Netflix Rentals . . .
Studio's are all "morter" no real "click" . . .
netflix is all "click" and no "morter" . . .
:apple: sits right in the middle . . . so from a cost structure standpoint . . . after haggling [with studios] over a "soon to be abolished" business model . . . the pricing ain't that bad . . .

The movie studios definitely flexed their muscles [with the music contracts with itunes] just before this Macworld rentals release because they [studios] know that this is their last potential to salvage their existing [razor blade] business model. The studios should read the Harvard Business Case on Kodak . . . their resistance to digital photography cost them the entire market as new competitors came along
 
Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

Software Update says:

"Enjoy rented movies in sizes up to 720p HD with surround sound on your Apple TV and sizes up to DVD-quality on your computer."


Also, unless they have enhanced Quicktime to do Dolby Digital they do not have a way to get 5.1 out of the computer.

A.
 
Can't See Rent Feature in iTunes

Can anyone see the rental store yet? I downloaded 7.6, but it is still mysteriously absent.

Same here. I see NO mention whatsoever of renting movies in iTunes 7.6. If it's there, it's too hard to find. What's the deal Mr. J? :confused:
 
If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:
  1. You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.
  2. True DVD quality, not "DVD Quality". 720x480 resolution. 5.1 surround sound. Apple's SD offers less resolution and sound quality for less money ($1-2 savings per month), and Apple's HD offers slightly better resolution and same sound quality for the same price. While most DVD are designed to avoid compression artifacts (because the space is there and paid for if you use it or not), experience with download services shows a tendency for over-compression to the point of highly-degraded video quality. It would not be surprising to see the HD picture with less fidelity than the DVD picture. But, that remains to be seen.
  3. You probably already own a DVD player. No $229 start-up fee.
  4. 90,000 movies in the library to choose from, today. "1,000"? Pshaw!
  5. Immediate availability of new DVD releases. No 30-day penalty box for your movies.
  6. Queue management, allowing easy maintenance of "wish lists" for movies.

:apple:TV Pros:
  1. You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
  2. Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.

Anything I missed?

Unless your rental rate is below one movie per month, Netflix has a plan which works better than renting, monetarily. Of course, they hope the low-end plan will spark a desire to watch more than 2 movies per month and you'll move up in their rate structure (the next plan is almost twice as expensive at $8.99), but Apple would love the same thing. Apple's service quickly stops making sense when you watch multiple movies (or TV shows on DVD) per month.

Counter Netflix Pro.
1. Sure, you can take as long as you want to watch a movie from netflix ...but why does that matter with the iTunes? You don't have to put them in a queue and have them shipped to you ...you simply sit down when you feel like it and hit play.
2. The quality of the iTunes movies are very good. No, they aren't 6000kbps ...but they aren't full of artifacts either. Half the time I end up ripping the DVDs i get from netflix because I don't have time to watch them within the month anyway. I get compression either way :p
3. I don't own an AppleTV ..I may NEVER own an AppleTV. My 24" iMac is in my living room ..I watch the content on it.
4. Immediate availability to new releases is definitely a pro ..but then again, I can just go down to my local video store if I want to see it that bad. Chances are I would have already watched it in the movie theatre anyway...
5. They may have 90,000 movies ...but I've run out of old things I want to see!
6. there is a 30-day penalty at netflix as well. If you don't return the movie you don't get another one shipped to you
7. Queue management is a plus as well ..although when you have run out of things to watch ...your queue is pretty baron anyway.

Those are reasons I will be dumping netflix next month (or at least putting it on hold) ...that, and those times when a friend comes over and you start talking about a movie and you want to watch it right then ...netflix can't come through on that one unless it's in their watch now section (highly unlikely)
 
$4.99 for HD rentals is fine, I was worried it was going to be more. Lets face it, I generally don't enjoy the movie theaters anymore. Besides the usual rude people, young kids screaming and messy sticky floors ... its down right expensive. There are tons of movies coming out that I want to see, but have no interest in purchasing. I would much rather enjoy them in the comfort of my own home, where I can drink a beer and smoke some bud if I want. :D

I would rather use iTunes because I can watch it where I want. I can't tell you how many times I would fall a sleep in the last 10 minutes of a movie. I get home late that night only to find out the movie expired already. It would be nice to finish watching it on my iPhone or what ever. (Although, I don't know if it would really work)

Not to mention, I would rather be billed now for it when I can afford it then the end of the month when the cable bill comes in. I hate that sticker shock of, oh crap we rented 10 movies this month !?

$2.99 for SD rentals is fine. I don't travel as much as I used to, and man it would be much nicer to not have to carry movies with me for week long business trips.

Anyway, gonna rent an HD movie tonight to check it out.
 
The 24 hour limit is stupid, but probably what it took to get all the studios. I would rather have a 5 day rental with only one full viewing instead of the 30 days and 24 hours. I think the 24 hours is going to lose a lot of potential renters.
 
The 24 hour limit is stupid, but probably what it took to get all the studios. I would rather have a 5 day rental with only one full viewing instead of the 30 days and 24 hours. I think the 24 hours is going to lose a lot of potential renters.
Seriously? I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a movie and decided half-way through that I didn't want to finish it right then. I think you people are weird :p
 
Seriously? I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a movie and decided half-way through that I didn't want to finish it right then. I think you people are weird :p

My point is that I can drive a block to BlockBuster and get a movie for $5 or whatever they are charging, have it for a week, and watch it as many times as I want. With the Apple plan even if you accidentally start the movie, you then must watch the rest of the movie within 24 hours. If you accidentally hit play and are extremely busy on that day, you just wasted a few dollars for a movie you won't get to watch. There is also the many small emergencies that can go wrong and keep you from watching the movie within 24 hours after starting. The right thing to do would be a shorter amount of time you get to have the movie, but no time limit once a movie has been started.
 
The 24 hour limit is stupid, but probably what it took to get all the studios. I would rather have a 5 day rental with only one full viewing instead of the 30 days and 24 hours. I think the 24 hours is going to lose a lot of potential renters.

The rumor mill had been reporting that this was the sticking issue with Jobs. He wanted to remove the 30 day delay, but apparently none of the studios would sign up, not even Disney. So he had to give in or delay rentals for years more while the studios would give better deals to others like the music industry is giving favorable deals to Amazon.

Jobs has had to admit defeat and compromise with the studios at the risk of offering a product that won't sell well. With the entertainment industry... you can lead them to water but you can't make them drink.
 
Counter Netflix Pro.
1. Sure, you can take as long as you want to watch a movie from netflix ...but why does that matter with the iTunes? You don't have to put them in a queue and have them shipped to you ...you simply sit down when you feel like it and hit play.

It's been talked about many times. Say you have kids and a life and can't watch an entire movie in one sitting. Say something comes up in the middle of a movie and you have to pause it until the next night. Say you only have small windows to watch movies in.

I'd much rather sit down and watch a whole movie straight through every time, and by and large I do. But, a few times a month at least, I want to watch a movie and don't have the time available to watch it right then, so I watch half one day and half the next day or the day after. Just last night I watched the first half of a movie while working out, and I won't get to the second half of it until tomorrow night.

Ask yourself this: aside from the above scenarios and the tendency for people to double-rent movies when this happens, what is in it for the studios to put this 24-hour limit on their movies? Before you claim that the above is so rare as to not matter, consider this: it happens enough that studios are willing to endure bad publicity so they can make the few extra rental fees off customers.

2. The quality of the iTunes movies are very good. No, they aren't 6000kbps ...but they aren't full of artifacts either. Half the time I end up ripping the DVDs i get from netflix because I don't have time to watch them within the month anyway. I get compression either way :p

I'd have to disagree with you here. I see massive compression artifacts in TV shows I've bought from iTunes, especially in the dark regions. If you want to rip a movie without compression artifacts, you just rip it at a higher bit rate! Granted, you can't "undo" the damage of the original compression, but you certainly don't need to end up with a worse result!

3. I don't own an AppleTV ..I may NEVER own an AppleTV. My 24" iMac is in my living room ..I watch the content on it.

And you won't be getting HD or 5.1 surround out of it either. And you're a distinct minority, I'd wager. But, true. You saved $229. The general consumer will not.

4. Immediate availability to new releases is definitely a pro ..but then again, I can just go down to my local video store if I want to see it that bad. Chances are I would have already watched it in the movie theatre anyway...
5. They may have 90,000 movies ...but I've run out of old things I want to see!

These two don't make sense together. If you watch most movies in the theater, then you don't have "new things" to see either.

6. there is a 30-day penalty at netflix as well. If you don't return the movie you don't get another one shipped to you

If you have a movie from Netflix and decide you want a different one, you return that movie and get the new one, a penalty of approximately 2-3 days (depending on where you live).

Again, this goes to the spontaneity aspect, which is the main :apple:TV Pro.

7. Queue management is a plus as well ..although when you have run out of things to watch ...your queue is pretty baron anyway.

Those are reasons I will be dumping netflix next month (or at least putting it on hold) ...that, and those times when a friend comes over and you start talking about a movie and you want to watch it right then ...netflix can't come through on that one unless it's in their watch now section (highly unlikely)

As I said, there are Pros for :apple:TV. Being able to think of a movie and watch it within minutes (assuming it is available) is a major plus. It sounds like that outweighs the Pros for Netflix in your case.
 
Am I reading this right? The movie will have been in Blockbuster and on Netflix for an entire MONTH before I can access it w/ an Apple TV?

That's where I think the rip-off is. How can you call it a new release after 30 days? And....charge $3.99 for it?! I'll go to RedBox and grab it for a dollar the day it comes out. If I have to wait 30 days, it better be cheaper.
 
are rentals available for anyone yet? i've been checking, and updated iTunes - but i still don't see anything
 
Brilliant news. Unless XBox live gets it's act together I'll seriously consider an Apple TV.

In the meantime it'll be nice to be able to rent things on my laptop and ipod. At least, whenever the hell it releases in the UK. If it's as poor as the TV show selection then it won't be worth bothering with. I'm an optimist though!

It's services like these which mean Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will never enjoy the success of DVD.
 
That's where I think the rip-off is. How can you call it a new release after 30 days? And....charge $3.99 for it?! I'll go to RedBox and grab it for a dollar the day it comes out. If I have to wait 30 days, it better be cheaper.

I have to agree. This is what makes RedBox the clear winner in the whole movie rental business if you're lucky enough to have them in your area. Rent it online. Pick it up on the way home from work. $1 a day for up to 25 days. If you keep it more than 25 days you own it for $25.
 
Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

It's been confirmed. No HD Movies without AppleTV, check out Gruber's analysis of the *updated* iTunes Terms of Service:

"(aa) Movies are viewable only on your Mac or Windows computer (using iTunes 7.6 or later), iPhone, video-enabled iPod (iPod touch, iPod nano (3rd generation), or iPod classic), or on TVs using your Apple TV. Movies in high definition resolution (HD) are viewable only on TVs using your Apple TV and must be downloaded directly to your Apple TV. Movies are viewable only on one device at a time."

http://daringfireball.net/2008/01/itunes_movie_rental_tos

Man, that does suck.

w00master
 
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