Apple Announces Major iTunes Update Coming Next Month [Update: Version 10.7 Released Today]

[C.G.B. Spender]

And, yet, those were your examples to demonstrate Apple's "typical app design".



As I said, I think that is a convoluted solution that ignores the complexity of creating a sync solution as well as the fact that most iOS users are on Windows. It also ignores all the fringe cases that I described earlier.

Separating out applications sounds great in theory. It might work when iCloud grows to support the huge amount of data involved in media sync sometime in the future. But it's just not practical with today's reality.

Well it's good to know some people are thinking straight. All i hear is "bloated this" and " bloated" that, but no clear solutions to fix this "BLOAT". Making more apps out of one perfectly good app is not a solution.

 

[talmy]

Well it's good to know some people are thinking straight. All i hear is "bloated this" and " bloated" that, but no clear solutions to fix this "BLOAT". Making more apps out of one perfectly good app is not a solution.

If it were a perfectly good app, I'd agree, but it's not. Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time.

Functions are already separated in iOS: Music, Video, iTunes, App Store, iBooks, and now even a separate PodCast app.

1. Separate out the iTunes Store just like there is currently a separate Mac App Store.

2. Separate out the sync. I expect most people with new iOS devices sync to the cloud anyway. Reintroduce the dropped iSync product for those that need it.

3. Remove the Books section, and while at it actually make it possible to read iBooks on a Mac (or PC).

4. Separate out Podcasts.

5. What's left is a media player. But for some strange reason we've got two, iTunes and QuickTime. Make iTunes audio only. Make QuickTime video only. Since the apps have become lightweight, iTunes would become a suitable player for quick sound clips.

 

[C.G.B. Spender]

If it were a perfectly good app, I'd agree, but it's not. Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time.

I think it's naive to argue with a person that thinks on a "Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time." level.

 

[talmy]

I think it's naive to argue with a person that thinks on a "Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time." level.

OTOH, I think it's naive to argue with someone who thinks iTunes is a perfect app. But just don't go saying nobody has offered a solution to bloat. Actually Apple already had done so by splitting things up so that they would run on the early iPhones and iPod Touches.

 

[C.G.B. Spender]

OTOH, I think it's naive to argue with someone who thinks iTunes is a perfect app. But just don't go saying nobody has offered a solution to bloat. Actually Apple already had done so by splitting things up so that they would run on the early iPhones and iPod Touches.

They didn't split anything, they chose to make separate apps, because it involves a screen of 3.5". Navigating a single iTunes app would be crazy on such device. That's first.

Second the moment you define what is bloat and how making 20 apps removes it i will know where to start, because right now i think we are in the land of dreams, pal.

P.S. I said "perfectly good app" not a "perfect app" - see the difference.

 

[slrandall]

If it were a perfectly good app, I'd agree, but it's not. Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time.

Functions are already separated in iOS: Music, Video, iTunes, App Store, iBooks, and now even a separate PodCast app.

1. Separate out the iTunes Store just like there is currently a separate Mac App Store.

2. Separate out the sync. I expect most people with new iOS devices sync to the cloud anyway. Reintroduce the dropped iSync product for those that need it.

3. Remove the Books section, and while at it actually make it possible to read iBooks on a Mac (or PC).

4. Separate out Podcasts.

5. What's left is a media player. But for some strange reason we've got two, iTunes and QuickTime. Make iTunes audio only. Make QuickTime video only. Since the apps have become lightweight, iTunes would become a suitable player for quick sound clips.

This is all subjective, but I really hope they don't split it up. It's always very responsive for me, and I like only having to go to one place to view all my media.

 

[j-a-x]

Do we know for a fact that iTunes 11 will just be a UI redesign and not a complete rewrite of the app from scratch? Or is it all speculation at this point (haven't watched the keynote yet).

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

If it were a perfectly good app, I'd agree, but it's not. Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time.

Functions are already separated in iOS: Music, Video, iTunes, App Store, iBooks, and now even a separate PodCast app.

1. Separate out the iTunes Store just like there is currently a separate Mac App Store.

2. Separate out the sync. I expect most people with new iOS devices sync to the cloud anyway. Reintroduce the dropped iSync product for those that need it.

3. Remove the Books section, and while at it actually make it possible to read iBooks on a Mac (or PC).

4. Separate out Podcasts.

I don't get what people like you think you're going to gain by separating those areas out? They're ALREADY in separate tabs on iTunes. You do realize that a program doesn't have to load modules or use resources for aspects of that program that aren't being utilized, right? If I'm not in "Movies" it's not playing a video. If I'm in movies, I'm not playing a music song. What's the point in making me load up another program and how is a tab different from having an iPod have a separate icon to load an internal player that may very well be part of the same resource tree internally? In other words, just because there's a seperate icon for "music" from "movies" on an iOS device, that doesn't mean they're running a different program internally. Notice how you can play music video from the MUSIC player on an iPod. It loads the same Quicktime player as "Movies". There's NO DIFFERENCE except in your mind. This idea that separating components of iTunes is going to somehow save resources if FLAWED.

5. What's left is a media player. But for some strange reason we've got two, iTunes and QuickTime. Make iTunes audio only. Make QuickTime video only. Since the apps have become lightweight, iTunes would become a suitable player for quick sound clips.

Sorry, but that's a terrible idea in the media age where Apple TV and iPods need to handle ALL forms of media and therefore need a program to keep track of and synchronize ALL of them, not just music by itself. My iPod Touch handles a lot more than just music.

If you want just a music player, download one. iTunes is a MEDIA player and organizational database for all Apple hardware devices. It's also a server for all iOS devices including shared Network devices like AppleTV. You cannot separate iTunes into parts without destroying that functionality and that functionality is what allows my whole house audio/video system and portable iOS devices to all functional seamlessly together with only ONE app needed to run them all. Having separate players and having to load them separately to synchronize my iPod and AppleTV WOULD be stupid. Imagine having to run 4 different programs at the same time just to do that. What's the point of that? So someone who only owns a notebook can say that iTunes is a smaller program? In 2012, it's small enough.

Windows Media Player handles all media. Should they make it only music as well? Shall we return to the 1990s and only having CD players for digital music?

----------

Sadly, and it is needed, see below.

I bought a new iPhone 3GS just two months ago, it will support iOS 6 but iTunes 10.7 is needed
yet it does not run on PPC.
Huge oversight by Apple.

How can I sync an iPhone 3GS(even later ones-4-4s) on a PPC if the minimum iTunes version needed is
10.7 and won't run on PPC????

Yeah, 10.7 should support PPC, IMO. I have an iPod 4 and like you say, how can I update it to iOS 6 if they don't support it? They should at least update the previous iTunes for PPC to handle syncing the new devices. Yes, I have a MBP that could update it, but it's synced to my PPC machine. I'm not sure that I can update it on that machine without erasing it first and will it then still sync properly on the older iTunes? Based on having it before updating iTunes on the same machine to one that could do the update, I think yes, but I won't know until I try it.

The thing is I'm ready to replace my ancient PowerMac with a Mac Mini server, but I'm waiting on an update to the Mac Mini so I have USB3 support. My 3TB media drive is USB3 and runs much slower on my PowerMac than it would on an updated Mac with USB3 (like 25-30MB/sec versus 150-160MB/sec with the same drive). If Apple would just get around to updating the Mac Mini, I could get moving on that. But they're dragging their feet and giving iPhones all the priority (as usual).

 

[Icaras]

If it were a perfectly good app, I'd agree, but it's not. Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time.

Functions are already separated in iOS: Music, Video, iTunes, App Store, iBooks, and now even a separate PodCast app.

1. Separate out the iTunes Store just like there is currently a separate Mac App Store.

2. Separate out the sync. I expect most people with new iOS devices sync to the cloud anyway. Reintroduce the dropped iSync product for those that need it.

3. Remove the Books section, and while at it actually make it possible to read iBooks on a Mac (or PC).

4. Separate out Podcasts.

5. What's left is a media player. But for some strange reason we've got two, iTunes and QuickTime. Make iTunes audio only. Make QuickTime video only. Since the apps have become lightweight, iTunes would become a suitable player for quick sound clips.

I totally agree. I really want this to happen. I want Apple to mimic iOS's media structure: Small media library/playback apps for each type of media just like iOS. Make the iTunes app just a store app, just like iOS.

And if people worry about a lost sense of a central library to search for their media and think it might be a hassle opening up separate apps, I think Apple could easily solve this with Spotlight. Make it function exactly like it does in iOS's Spotlight and have it unify your library by searching your media and categorizing it under the specific playback app in the search results. You know, kinda like how the new iTunes 11 mini player search field works (which I do really like also).

 

[talmy]

If you want just a music player, download one. iTunes is a MEDIA player and organizational database for all Apple hardware devices. It's also a server for all iOS devices including shared Network devices like AppleTV. You cannot separate iTunes into parts without destroying that functionality and that functionality is what allows my whole house audio/video system and portable iOS devices to all functional seamlessly together with only ONE app needed to run them all. Having separate players and having to load them separately to synchronize my iPod and AppleTV WOULD be stupid. Imagine having to run 4 different programs at the same time just to do that. What's the point of that? So someone who only owns a notebook can say that iTunes is a smaller program? In 2012, it's small enough.

I guess my problem is that I use bits and pieces of it in different places and it can be easily handled with separate, smaller, and simpler applications. The database functionality can be handled independently of the various front-ends that access it. I can't use iTunes as my media server to other systems because it is limited to 5 and I've got 8. I use Plex Server, and it can access the iTunes database. The server computer runs iTunes only to organize the database, never for anything else. I have two minis that don't run iTunes at all, but just run Plex. On my iMac I use iTunes to download podcasts and synchronize them to my iPod Touch which I use for playing podcasts and as a PDA. iTunes won't synchronize the calendar and address book -- I have to use WiFi for that. At work when I get a phone message it plays through iTunes, and I have to wait for that behemoth of a program to start up just to get my messages (I need to figure out how to get it to use Quicktime). I don't buy music or videos from Apple, so I don't need those stores. I get my iOS apps directly on my iPod Touch, so I don't need that store either. I'll never buy an iBook because they can't be read on my Macs. I had to add more memory to my music playing computer to get iTunes to continue to run as it got larger without giving me any benefit on that system.

So I'm poorly served by iTunes, but unfortunately there are a few features I absolutely need it for.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

If it were a perfectly good app, I'd agree, but it's not. Splitting iTunes into multiple apps makes each one much smaller, which eliminates bloat if only one is being used at a time.

Functions are already separated in iOS: Music, Video, iTunes, App Store, iBooks, and now even a separate PodCast app.

1. Separate out the iTunes Store just like there is currently a separate Mac App Store.

2. Separate out the sync. I expect most people with new iOS devices sync to the cloud anyway. Reintroduce the dropped iSync product for those that need it.

3. Remove the Books section, and while at it actually make it possible to read iBooks on a Mac (or PC).

4. Separate out Podcasts.

5. What's left is a media player. But for some strange reason we've got two, iTunes and QuickTime. Make iTunes audio only. Make QuickTime video only. Since the apps have become lightweight, iTunes would become a suitable player for quick sound clips.

This would mean making several more mac apps. Not certain if Apple will make that commitment. Perhaps they will have someone in India do it for them.

 

[r3m1]

Just wondering if it will be possible to see if a song is part of playlist(s) - still looking for the option but cant seem to find it. Annoying as sometimes you want to add a song to a playlist -- only to find out its already there.

 

[jaw04005]

Do we know for a fact that iTunes 11 will just be a UI redesign and not a complete rewrite of the app from scratch? Or is it all speculation at this point (haven't watched the keynote yet).

Gruber suggested days before WWDC it's complete Cocoa rewrite. So, he probably knows.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gruber and some of Apple's other press friends already are using beta copies.

 

[chrono1081]

Am I missing something?

I have 10.7 iTunes but it looks identical to the previous version, nothing like in the picture...

Not that I care since to me it was perfectly fine the way it was (although I'd like a dark interface) I was just curious.

EDIT: Oops I see in previous posts there is an iTunes section of the keynote. I'll take a gander at that.

EDIT2: Oops again! I see its available in October.

 

[hackjo]

Don't use iTunes Match. It's stupid and unnecessary. Like every other "feature" that Apple has introduced since 2005.

Why do you take an interest in Apple if you have such a low opinion of the company?

I can't stand Microsoft products on the whole, so I don't waste my time posting rants on forums associated with them. Maybe it's just me?

 

[coryndiego]

I agree with those on here who feel that iTunes as one media center is on the right track. Separating applications out of it just doesn't make sense.

The only thing I would like to see Apple do with iTunes is better utalize the ituneshelper and home sharing so iTunes doesn't have to be open to be seen by the AppleTV or other devices. As long as the computer is on I feel that AppleTV and the other devices should be able to see available libraries without having iTunes open. I guess a launch button through AppleTV or the remote app would serve this function too. Maybe build library access Or Home Sharing into the OS somehow?

 

[StephenCampbell]

Why do you take an interest in Apple if you have such a low opinion of the company?

I can't stand Microsoft products on the whole, so I don't waste my time posting rants on forums associated with them. Maybe it's just me?

Up until 2005/2006, Apple was improving everything year after year. They reached perfection around this time period, and because they continued to change, they inevitably had to depart from perfection.

I feel like I had a perfect dish of food laid before me, and bit by bit they're replacing ingredients with less tasty ingredients, but it's happening so slowly that I'm not going to walk out and go to a whole other restaurant over it yet.

 

[hackjo]

Up until 2005/2006, Apple was improving everything year after year. They reached perfection around this time period, and because they continued to change, they inevitably had to depart from perfection.

I feel like I had a perfect dish of food laid before me, and bit by bit they're replacing ingredients with less tasty ingredients, but it's happening so slowly that I'm not going to walk out and go to a whole other restaurant over it yet.

Oh, I see - that makes sense.

What was it that you thought made it perfect and what has changed that you think has had a negative influence? I'd be interested to know.

 

[StephenCampbell]

Oh, I see - that makes sense.

What was it that you thought made it perfect and what has changed that you think has had a negative influence? I'd be interested to know.

It's just everything. The reliability of the OS, the hardware, the integration of the software.

A PowerMac G5 in 2005, running Tiger and iLife 05 was literally bug free. There were no problems. I remember it clearly, and I confirm it every time I work on a pre-2006 tower. They run their native OS's smoother and more glitch free than the current machines run their native OS's.

iMovie 06' is a perfect example of when the downhill started. They added a bunch of features that didn't add anything useful to the application, but all of a sudden it was taking twice as long to export videos or to burn DVDs. The program was just slowed by 50%... apparently for no reason. I don't know what they did, but it was a disaster. And of course they dropped the sensible, mini-FCP version of iMovie shortly after that, leaving us with a bizarre new age toy.

Mac OS 10.0 was unusable, 10.1 was iffy, 10.2 was solid and glitch free. 10.3 was a big improvement on 10.2, and 10.4 was a big improvement on 10.3.. all of these changes bringing bigger and better, bug-free operating systems.

Now 10.5 introduced Time Machine, but at the same time it was the first "shaky" version of Mac OS X, in terms of bugginess and stability. Then 10.6 was even worse, and 10.7 was about as bad as 10.6.

It is my understanding that 10.8 has been quite a solid system on the newest machines, but it still is now bogged down and overly gimmicked out with its imitations of the iPad, etc.

If you take Tiger, and you add Time Machine, everything you need is there. I like dealing with applications and documents like a normal person... moving my mouse around to click things, keeping my own notes for myself, etc. Essentially, the changes over the last six years are distancing the user more and more from the nature of what a computer is, and making it an automated toy-like device.

And the iPod. The 3rd generation iPod was the climax. After that the scroll wheels were no longer as smooth, the operation wasn't as quick, etc. And the current iPod Classic is like an elephant with its big color screen, album artwork... only displaying four items at a time on the screen because of having to include that stupid album artwork.

I could really go on and on.

 

[j-a-x]

Do we know for a fact that iTunes 11 will just be a UI redesign and not a complete rewrite of the app from scratch? Or is it all speculation at this point (haven't watched the keynote yet).

Replying to myself - it appears from seeing the Keynote that it's actually a pretty big rewrite not just UI changes, because the UI is way more different from the current iTunes than I expected. I agree with some of you that separate media players / media stores like in iOS would make sense, however, if the new iTunes is as good as it looks, maybe it doesn't matter.

 

[shotts56]

It's just everything. The reliability of the OS, the hardware, the integration of the software.

A PowerMac G5 in 2005, running Tiger and iLife 05 was literally bug free. There were no problems. I remember it clearly, and I confirm it every time I work on a pre-2006 tower. They run their native OS's smoother and more glitch free than the current machines run their native OS's.

iMovie 06' is a perfect example of when the downhill started. They added a bunch of features that didn't add anything useful to the application, but all of a sudden it was taking twice as long to export videos or to burn DVDs. The program was just slowed by 50%... apparently for no reason. I don't know what they did, but it was a disaster. And of course they dropped the sensible, mini-FCP version of iMovie shortly after that, leaving us with a bizarre new age toy.

Mac OS 10.0 was unusable, 10.1 was iffy, 10.2 was solid and glitch free. 10.3 was a big improvement on 10.2, and 10.4 was a big improvement on 10.3.. all of these changes bringing bigger and better, bug-free operating systems.

Now 10.5 introduced Time Machine, but at the same time it was the first "shaky" version of Mac OS X, in terms of bugginess and stability. Then 10.6 was even worse, and 10.7 was about as bad as 10.6.

It is my understanding that 10.8 has been quite a solid system on the newest machines, but it still is now bogged down and overly gimmicked out with its imitations of the iPad, etc.

If you take Tiger, and you add Time Machine, everything you need is there. I like dealing with applications and documents like a normal person... moving my mouse around to click things, keeping my own notes for myself, etc. Essentially, the changes over the last six years are distancing the user more and more from the nature of what a computer is, and making it an automated toy-like device.

And the iPod. The 3rd generation iPod was the climax. After that the scroll wheels were no longer as smooth, the operation wasn't as quick, etc. And the current iPod Classic is like an elephant with its big color screen, album artwork... only displaying four items at a time on the screen because of having to include that stupid album artwork.

I could really go on and on.

You do realise that's just a sign of getting old ? Everything new isn't as good as it used to be, and things were better in the old days. That's what everyone says as they get older and gradually turn into their parents.

 

[milo]

No, there is a situation where it is needed, upgrading from iOS 5.1.1 to iOS 6 on PPC.

I was saying that it is needed, thanks for posting another example.

I don't get what people like you think you're going to gain by separating those areas out?

Aside from performance, it give the opportunity to have the handling of each type of data optimized instead of a kitchen sink approach that wasn't ever originally intended for many of the functions that are now shoehorned in.

Just wondering if it will be possible to see if a song is part of playlist(s) - still looking for the option but cant seem to find it. Annoying as sometimes you want to add a song to a playlist -- only to find out its already there.

Right click the song, there are playlist submenus that show that. Not easy to find, though.

I have 10.7 iTunes but it looks identical to the previous version...

Just imagine how much confusion could have been avoided if Apple had called the update 10.6.4.

 

[MartiNZ]

You do realise that's just a sign of getting old ? Everything new isn't as good as it used to be, and things were better in the old days. That's what everyone says as they get older and gradually turn into their parents.

Oh no you didn't just pull the "*pat* there, there, it's just nostalgia" line did you?

Could you not have just not responded? I really dislike that line of argument because it is totally subjective, and from my subjective viewpoint , totally wrong.

I read the post you quoted and was nodding all the way through (except about 10.1 being iffy, I really liked that OS); it was all pretty much spot-on, and especially the overall sentiment of 10.4 being the highlight is a commonly held view, which I tend to share with the exception of Dashboard, which we were better off without. It has -nothing- to do with "getting old" and I have no idea where that default response comes from. We're talking about just responding to feature sets that are unnecessary, and on the hardware side, a general move to built-in obsolescence and likely cheaper bits and bobs.

The same argument is used with World of Warcraft when someone claims that it was better years ago, but the fact that everyone I know IRL that plays or at least used to, holds that belief, tends me towards, "no, it's a real effect; it WAS better, and if it was still like it was, it would STILL be better."

In that case they have us caught by time invested and I for one keep going back; on the OS X side, I've reacted by not using Lion, and for the most part heading to Windows instead, where I don't see unnecessary gimmicky features (I even really like TUIFKA "Metro"), skeuomorphism, or flawed versioning features that you cannot opt out of. Because OS X has passed its best versions, not because I'm getting old or anything of the sort. Thanks.

As for iTunes, I didn't read the links between the true rant and that but I think I'm on the same wavelength again, and I think that the screenshots of the new version look awful. For one they're yet again going for inconsistency in the GUI, with the fat title bar like the ugliness that is MAS. The widgets are inconsistent and the sunken song details space looks worse than ever. I'm hoping that the Windows version has the option to hide the menubar and thus doesn't have such a nasty titlebar area. Again we are stuck with the ecosystem for money invested, and I'm not sure I can be bothered burning old M4Ps or paying to upgrade them, lol, but leaving the platform as it stands for desktops seems to be a nice option at this point.

 

[JesalTV]

Same.

Now all they need is iTunes Match for movies so I can get rid of my external HDD full of rips

Wow that would be awesome!

Biggest storage hog I have...

 

[milo]

Oh no you didn't just pull the "*pat* there, there, it's just nostalgia" line did you?

As much as it annoys you, it seems like a perfectly appropriate response to a post insisting that OSX was perfect and bug free in 2005 and Apple has done nothing good since.