Apple Announces Management Changes: Scott Forstall and John Browett Out, Ive and Others Add Responsibilities

[everything-i]

I guess Forstall took the fall for Mapsgate!

Took the fall, that would suggest that he wasn't responsible for the Maps project which he headed and also wasn't responsible for the poor quality of the iOS6 release which he also headed. He is a manager and was obviously out of his depth at this level, it's a shame he wasn't replaced earlier.

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

This pretty much confirms that some folks are very much in denial as it pertains to the state of iOS in the marketplace right now.

 

[everything-i]

I also found him creepy and other things, but emotions are entirely irrelevant in this case. What matters is that iOS became the success that it is BECAUSE OF Forstall - he deserves a lot of credit here. Losing Forstall could be a very dangerous change for Apple and the iOS-products.

He is a manager, iOS was a success because of design and vision not how its development was managed. Forstall has demonstrated a lot of poor judgement in software releases since and there has been a complete lack of quality and direction in software from Apple under his stewardship since Steve hasn't been around to pull everything together.

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This pretty much confirms that some folks are very much in denial as it pertains to the state of iOS in the marketplace right now.

iOS is still a leading mobile OS under the covers but has not moved forward as it should have, Forstall must take most of the blame for this over the last couple of years. He has failed to capitalise on the solid foundation and take iOS to where it could have been today.

 

[parish]

Browett being at Apple in the first place was a strange move - his (non) interpretation on customer service at Dixons/PC World was painfully known here in the UK.

I can't help a wry smile when I think back to the threads here when he was first appointed and all us Brits were saying, "WTF!!!!??? " and others - those without any experience of Dixons/PCW/Currys - were replying that he must have something to offer and that TC isn't stupid, etc. etc.

Sorry, but I've got to say it ... WE TOLD YOU SO

can't wait for the Videos where jony (and only)jony states the beuaty and simplicity of the design. woohoo

Precision Unibody UI

As long as it doesn't extend to glueing the Game Centre and Passbook icons to the home screen

 

[Limboistik]

$900 under, did you buy at $650 or higher? I say if you're that far under, it's a hold in the stock unless you can take the loss. See how things go after the market opens again on Wednesday. Keep in mind that AAPL dropped 50 points the day Steve Jobs stepped down as CEO (from ~400 down to 350) and recovered in a few days.

Much of the recent selling has been due to forces outside of Apple (economic globalization, world economic worries, and growth concerns) and not due to the health of Apple as a company. AAPL's recent "miss" in Q4 2012 is linked to known product cycles and rumors that caused customers not to purchase products this quarter and analysts' overblown estimates.

Personally, I think AAPL will begin to recover as we get closer to the dividend and continue to recover into the holidays and be above $650 by the end of the year. When they announce holiday earnings in January they'll be back at $700 and continue to climb into Q2 2013.

Full disclosure, I do trade and am currently holding a long position in AAPL. I last bought at $590. According to the technical chart that I use to track AAPL, the stock is severely oversold and due for a rally.

Yup I bought in at $664ish.
But good perspective, that is what I am thinking too, see how the market reacts on Wednesday, and possibly hold out for the November dividend.

 

[sillypooh]

We demand perfection from Apple and Apple demands perfection from its employees. All is well.

 

[Cali Fornia]

No.


You saw Notes in Mail app on Mac OS X? Yep, they are yellow with the lines! And it's 2007 (Mac OS X 10.5).

Does this change anything concerning my complaint?

 

[powers74]

I didn't like Scott Forstall. I hope/believe iOS will become even greater without him at the helm.

Me either.

Wait, what?

So much for calling Forstall the next Steve Jobs like CEO

I always cringed at the thought of Forstall being CEO. Although Schiller is such a fluffbrain. Unfortunately, Ive is just not the CEO type.

 

[cmichaelb]

Also sad to see Forstall go. Kind of sobering, one screw up and you're out. Doesn't matter how long you've been there, how much good you've done and how ingrained you've been into the culture...After the success of iOS 4 and iOS 5, he probably went on relax mode. Poof.

One screw up?

iOS 6 is a buggy mess- data issue, wifi, numerous glitches. Podcast app still has issues. Excessive skeumorphism(some light skeu is good, and iBooks actually benefits from skeu). Maps app. By all accounts, very abrasive personality.

Not to mention, iOS 1, every other update broke wifi.

There's been screw ups all along.

He lost his champion in Jobs.

Glad to see a change and wish Scott the best- but this was best for Apple.

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As long as it doesn't extend to glueing the Game Centre and Passbook icons to the home screen

lmao..... don't even joke like that lol


maybe now Newstand will be allowed to be put in a folder or become optional like iBooks. I doubt it, but I hope.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Good timing on the announcement while the markets are closed.

 

[everything-i]

With any luck this signals a change of gear at Apple in UI design, it has been stagnant for far too long and appeared directionless under Forstall. Now it has a much needed injection of new blood. Hopefully Jony Ive can give it some real direction and create something impressively elegant and simple rather than the rather muddled mess iOS6 UI is. That podcast app is an embarrassment and the sooner we lose all that god awful wood and stitched leather the better. It was beginning to look like a poor quality jail broken re-skin all the apps looking and functioning differently. This is Apple and iOS should be a work of art something that the rest of the industry can aspire to, if Jony can do the same as he has with hardware design it will. Here's hoping.

 

[ECUpirate44]

With any luck this signals a change of gear at Apple in UI design, it has been stagnant for far too long and appeared directionless under Forstall. Now it has a much needed injection of new blood. Hopefully Jony Ive can give it some real direction and create something impressively elegant and simple rather than the rather muddled mess iOS6 UI is. That podcast app is an embarrassment and the sooner we lose all that god awful wood and stitched leather the better. It was beginning to look like a poor quality jail broken re-skin all the apps looking and functioning differently. This is Apple and iOS should be a work of art something that the rest of the industry can aspire to, if Jony can do the same as he has with hardware design it will. Here's hoping.

Agree with you 100%, but i'm thinking real innovation is going to come in iOS8, not 7 .

 

[everything-i]

Someone needs to tell Microsoft this.

Image

Well said. LOL

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Agree with you 100%, but i'm thinking real innovation is going to come in iOS8, not 7 .

Agreed, I think 7 is going to see it start to turn around but we are going to have to wait until 8 to see anything dramatic. 7 will already be well into development and apart from aesthetic touches like cleaned up graphics there will probably not be time to implement any major new direction. Hopefully 7 is going to look good and be solid and 8 is going to be fantastic.

 

[everything-i]

Kind of sobering, one screw up and you're out. Doesn't matter how long you've been there, how much good you've done and how ingrained you've been into the culture...After the success of iOS 4 and iOS 5, he probably went on relax mode. Poof.

One screw up, what about battery life being messed up in 4 and 5 and WiFi being broken in pretty much every release since 2. Serious bugs getting into releases that should have been picked up using simple automated testing like the exchange meetings bug in 6. Maps is the visible tip of a very large iceberg, there have been persistent and serious problems with many releases of iOS and its just not good for the companies image. This is not forgetting that iOS has pretty much stagnated for at least 3 releases now while the rest of the industry has kept moving forward. In many respects Apple had no choice but to replace this guy and the only sad thing is that he wasn't replaced years ago.

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Is this large corporate politics? Sounds like communist party, after the emperor died, some tried to gain more power, others get executed.

No, this about not tolerating failure and only employing the best. Apple give huge rewards for success and should likewise not tolerate failure. They need someone better in this role and that's been obvious for a while.

 

[teknikal90]

One screw up, what about battery life being messed up in 4 and 5 and WiFi being broken in pretty much every release since 2. Serious bugs getting into releases that should have been picked up using simple automated testing like the exchange meetings bug in 6. Maps is the visible tip of a very large iceberg, there have been persistent and serious problems with many releases of iOS and its just not good for the companies image. This is not forgetting that iOS has pretty much stagnated for at least 3 releases now while the rest of the industry has kept moving forward. In many respects Apple had no choice but to replace this guy and the only sad thing is that he wasn't replaced years ago.

IMO iOS made huge strides through iOS 4 and iOS 5
iOS 6 is when he dropped the ball.
as for bugs, every big software has bugs. Things as menial as the exchange bug that you mention are expected.
Put it this way. You want to launch a big software. you have time to fix one bug, the other you'll have to fix in in the x.0.1 release. Which would you fix, the menial exchange bug or the bug that is game-killing..ie can't launch safari, for example.
Bugs I can tolerate, its all expected to an extent. Lack of innovation I dont't think there's an excuse for. Adn thats what he screwed up once in - iOS 6

 

[Jugney]

Amazing news! I feel just as excited as the executives at Apple.

I am an avid Apple user, but it's hard to look at where other phones and tablets are getting to, and not think we need someone who won't put his head in the sand over problems like Maps and Siri's slow rate of improvement. Looking forward to iOS releases being exciting again!

If the market has any sense, AAPL will go up on this news.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Yikes! I hope Greek history doesn't repeat with Apple. It all sort of resembles the same situation when the four generals dividing the empire after Alexander's (Steve's) death.

I'm sure every key figure at Apple had a purpose to be there. If everyone in the team agrees blindly to certain ideals, then the whole team could lose its way.
It's true that team work is required, but there's also the need for "balancing forces" inside Apple.

A company at the level of Apple shouldn't apologize for the Maps 'fiasco' (as many call it). In a way, it may It resemble the time when the Japanese Emperor Hirohito revealed he wasn't a god after all.

Note: I'm talking above from the business perspective; as a user, surely expect an apology!.

 

[everything-i]

IMO iOS made huge strides through iOS 4 and iOS 5
iOS 6 is when he dropped the ball.
as for bugs, every big software has bugs. Things as menial as the exchange bug that you mention are expected.
Put it this way. You want to launch a big software. you have time to fix one bug, the other you'll have to fix in in the x.0.1 release. Which would you fix, the menial exchange bug or the bug that is game-killing..ie can't launch safari, for example.
Bugs I can tolerate, its all expected to an extent. Lack of innovation I dont't think there's an excuse for. Adn thats what he screwed up once in - iOS 6

Can't agree with you on bugs. There are too many 'major' problems that should have been picked up by QA processes. Forstall as manager should have been putting processes in place to make things better but it didn't happen. Its his decision what gets cut and what is achievable in the time he has, I mean siri has been beta for years and maps just didn't work on day one. We also got the same problems over and over again. You will get problems with large software releases I know that only too well but basic stuff should all be regression tested and the quality of testing has been lacking. The exchange bug I mentioned is major and hurts Apple in the business sector where rollouts have been put on hold or abandoned because of it, and its still not fixed. The problems with WiFi in release after release and serious battery issues in the last two releases are more examples. If a problem happens once that is accepted but over and over just tells me that management are not up to the job. There has been little basic innovation in iOS since the introduction of apps. The UI has been steadily getting worse and worse and in 6 some of the apps don't even work properly at all. It has been getting worse not better and that has to be down to bad management. Its been rotting for a while and iOS6 was the tipping point, he had to go.

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Amazing news! I feel just as excited as the executives at Apple.

I am an avid Apple user, but it's hard to look at where other phones and tablets are getting to, and not think we need someone who won't put his head in the sand over problems like Maps and Siri's slow rate of improvement. Looking forward to iOS releases being exciting again!

If the market has any sense, AAPL will go up on this news.

Good points but I fear it will take a long time to turn things around. They are going to have to reorganise and build teams and that doesn't happen over night. Once the rot has set in it takes a lot of hard work to fix things. The UI teams have been split on the best direction to go and now need strong leadership to get them all pulling together again. I'm still excited to see what can be achieved though.

 

[teknikal90]

Can't agree with you on bugs. There are too many 'major' problems that should have been picked up by QA processes. Forstall as manager should have been putting processes in place to make things better but it didn't happen. Its his decision what gets cut and what is achievable in the time he has, I mean siri has been beta for years and maps just didn't work on day one. We also got the same problems over and over again. You will get problems with large software releases I know that only too well but basic stuff should all be regression tested and the quality of testing has been lacking. The exchange bug I mentioned is major and hurts Apple in the business sector where rollouts have been put on hold or abandoned because of it, and its still not fixed. The problems with WiFi in release after release and serious battery issues in the last two releases are more examples. If a problem happens once that is accepted but over and over just tells me that management are not up to the job. There has been little basic innovation in iOS since the introduction of apps. The UI has been steadily getting worse and worse and in 6 some of the apps don't even work properly at all. It has been getting worse not better and that has to be down to bad management. Its been rotting for a while and iOS6 was the tipping point, he had to go.

Touche.
I just saw a video on Android 4.2 and now think...surely iOS has been mismanaged if the other camp can achieve ALL that.

 

[hchung]

Read the post before replying. There are only two major companies with Navigation algorithm (TeleAtlas and NAVTEQ). It is much easier to integrate all data from one source (Google) with TeleAtlas/NAVTEQ voice navigation, rather trying to integrate 24 data sources.

Of course, it Google thinks it is at an advantage, it is going to demand more. It is up to the other party to make the right decision or to go down.

Who is having the last laugh now. Google or Apple.

You simply don't understand. I mean, what the heck is "Navigation algorithm"?

No. The algorithm used is called "A*". No company owns it. Want to know about it? Get a textbook. Or wikipedia. It's everywhere.

The navigation engine is easy to make, it's building the data set that's hard. You do know that in order to create Bing, Google, and Yahoo maps, they must integrate large numbers of sources, right? How do you think they got to be as good as they are now?

 

[iphoneclassic]

You simply don't understand. I mean, what the heck is "Navigation algorithm"?

No. The algorithm used is called "A*". No company owns it. Want to know about it? Get a textbook. Or wikipedia. It's everywhere.

The navigation engine is easy to make, it's building the data set that's hard. You do know that in order to create Bing, Google, and Yahoo maps, they must integrate large numbers of sources, right? How do you think they got to be as good as they are now?

You are taking my original point and arguing with me. My point was Apple should have continued to use the Google Data they were getting and integrate with TeleAtlas/NAVTEQ. Rather than dumping Google with the premise Google was not giving Voice Navigation feature.

Just because there is a published algorithm doesn't mean every one can develop the software. Only two successful companies in this area are NAVTEQ and TeleAtlas.

If any one could develop navigation software NOKIA wouldn't have paid 8 Billion for NAVTEQ, when they had their own product Ovi Maps.

 

[Cujo72]

Could someone show some examples that demonstrate the "staleness" of iOS? I keep hearing that but I don't see it.

 

[dermeister]

To be fair, both (especially Siri) are poor services. The turn-by-turn interface on Maps IS nice, very nice infact, but the maps data and image quality is abysmal in places. As for Siri ... least said the better.

Siri is bad because it's not real AI, it's just basic pattern recognition. And there aren't THAT many patterns programmed in. There isn't even a real context system, other than a pre-programmed run-through of certain scripts. Siri is the definition of a gimmick.

 

[RenoG]

Could someone show some examples that demonstrate the "staleness" of iOS? I keep hearing that but I don't see it.

Its the fact that its been virtually the same since 2007. The same old heavy use of Skeumorphics.

 

[John.B]

Siri is bad because it's not real AI, it's just basic pattern recognition. And there aren't THAT many patterns programmed in. There isn't even a real context system, other than a pre-programmed run-through of certain scripts. Siri is the definition of a gimmick.

Well, there you go: Google Search for iOS updated with Google Now-like voice recognition (9to5mac.com)