Apple Announces New Mac Pros With Up to 12 Cores, SSD Options

[saxofunk]

that will not happen and if it does it will be around 2013 or so. don't you see what apple did yesterday? where do you get crazy Ideas like that? I wish I was wrong but I am not I am just realistic.

My 'crazy ideas' come from watching Apple for the last 8 years and from working for them for almost 3. What reason do you have to put 2013? What is the significance? LightPeak plans to begin hardware production at the end of the year or early next. The theoretical limit for bandwidth after some years of development is 100Gb/s first version will be 10Gb/s. LightPeak will be here soon, while you're buying USB 3.0 drives.

 

[KnightWRX]

No, it's not that simple, because some people have to use Mac OS X due to their line of work (creative, entertainment, etc).

No one has to use OS X. Prefer to use it maybe. But no one is forced into OS X. At all.

so he gimps an entire hardware line to spite a software competitor.

From all the reviews and what not going on in the GPU world, it seems nVidia are behind the times, rebranding older GPUs and ATI is ahead of them by a generation.

How is using the best product gimping ?

 

[spikejp]

Which model best suits me?

OK, so I have been a PC user all my life and have recently come to realise that a Mac Pro is probably the best thing for me now that I can afford them.

A number of posts here make mention of sockets adn ECC memory etc.. technical stuff which I can't follow. What I want to do on the Mac Pro is as follows and maybe somebody can help me decide which Mac Pro is best for me, assistance would be appreciated.

Basic Internet and E-Mail, as a standard.
Use of Final Cut Studio (or similar) for Video Editing (HD)
Some 3d graphic work
DTP
Photo editing
Music Editing
VMware with Windows for everything else

I have been thinking that the 6core would be sufficient, but I do like my machines to pack a punch, I hate waiting for video rendering to take hours if not days....

So advice would be aprreciated..

 

[PeterQVenkman]

The state of apple’s professional line


Fantastic article.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

How is using the best product gimping ?

Apple effectively gimped - or disabled entirely by the omission of nVidia - software tools that people use like Octane, Lux, and Premiere Pro. The best video card in the world doesn't matter if one can't use their tools with it.

I have been thinking that the 6core would be sufficient, but I do like my machines to pack a punch, I hate waiting for video rendering to take hours if not days....

So advice would be aprreciated..

Just buy a decked out iMac or PC at half the cost, because Final Cut isn't going to make use of the crazy amount of cores in the latest Mac Pro CPUs. Might as well get the iMac with it's faster clock speed and be happy with the big display and OSX.

 

[KnightWRX]

Apple effectively gimped - or disabled entirely by the omission of nVidia - software tools that people use like Octane, Lux, and Premiere Pro. The best video card in the world doesn't matter if one can't use their tools with it.

They haven't even put up the stuff on the store yet, how do you know there won't be an nVidia option outside the BTO configurations ? They do sell video cards you know :

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/TW386LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU2Nzg

 

[AidenShaw]

No, it means Apple doesn't have a solution for you. The comparison is not valid. Your comparison should go as follow : "Dell's Inspiron to Apple's ... oh, nothing here, Dell it is".

End. Of. Story.

Then we simply need to agree to disagree.

I have a set of requirements.

- Dell has a system that meets those requirements for $1199.

- Apple's cheapest system that meets those requirements is $2499.

Why should I not compare the systems and conclude that Apple is overpriced by $1300 for my requirements?

Since Apple's product line has "nothing here" as you say, Apple is very over-priced at meeting my requirements.

If I were to read the Apple "Tech Specs" for the Apple maxi-tower and write my requirements from those, then the result would be different. Too many people here are using that reverse logic to come to the conclusion that all of the Mac Pro systems are cheap desktop computers.

 

[TheNoize]

No one has to use OS X. Prefer to use it maybe. But no one is forced into OS X. At all.

Yes, they are. People who work in studios that use Mac OS X specific software/hardware are required to work with Mac OS X all the time to do their job.

Maybe people like you, who just pointlessly ***** around with their computers instead of getting work done, would be ignorant enough to truly believe "no one is forced into OS X"...

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Then we simply need to agree to disagree.

I have a set of requirements.

- Dell has a system that meets those requirements for $1199.

- Apple's cheapest system that meets those requirements is $2499.

Why should I not compare the systems and conclude that Apple is overpriced by $1300 for my requirements?

Since Apple's product line has "nothing here" as you say, Apple is very over-priced at meeting my requirements.

I believe Brook Willard explained it well, although he took his time doing it. Here's a few snippets:

The problem is that Apple is no longer in their own sandbox. When Apple switched over to using Intel processors, they opened themselves up to direct and undeniable competition. When Apple was on their 6-month product update cycle back in the PowerPC days, there was no competition. Sure, the PC world would’ve updated a few times since Apple’s last offering… but Apple’s last offering was still the fastest PowerPC system you could get.

If you look at today’s lineup, Apple has introduced a machine priced like the Power Macintosh 9600 but outfitted like the PowerMac G3. In many ways, it goes against everything Apple taught us during those countless Photoshop bake-offs and system controller comparisons.

Apple has done what they always told us was bad – they’ve bolted a crazy fast processor to a system that’s just not up to the task. It’s a twin-turbo V12 Yugo.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes, they are. People who work in studios that use Mac OS X specific software/hardware are required to work with Mac OS X all the time to do their job.

Maybe people like you, who just pointlessly ***** around with their computers instead of getting work done, would be ignorant enough to truly believe "no one is forced into OS X"...

My work involves OpenSSH. Not everyone requires a Mac Pro to do professional work on a computer.

Studios that use OS X specific hardware/software don't give a crap about the Mac Pro's price. People that whine on here are not Studios. And hint : The studios can switch if they see better value in something else, there is nothing specific to OS X that can't be replaced and ties them down forever.

 

[KnightWRX]

Why should I not compare the systems and conclude that Apple is overpriced by $1300 for my requirements?

You could also conclude the square peg is overpriced because it requires a hammer to fit in your round hole. However, one would conclude that you simply missed the fact that you needed a round peg to begin with, and the price of the hammer has nothing to do with the square peg at all.

Next time, shop for a product that fits you rather than trying to fit a product to your needs.

 

[TheNoize]

My work involves OpenSSH. Not everyone requires a Mac Pro to do professional work on a computer.

Studios that use OS X specific hardware/software don't give a crap about the Mac Pro's price. People that whine on here are not Studios. And hint : The studios can switch if they see better value in something else, there is nothing specific to OS X that can't be replaced and ties them down forever.

Studios don't give a crap about the price, but the PEOPLE that work in those studios, and have to work from home doing projects for those studios, back and forth, are forced into OS X.

 

[murdercitydevil]

Hahahah goddamn that is a sad upgrade. What you guys need to do is seriously build a MONSTER hackintosh system for a third of the price, spend the rest on dual 30 inch displays and a fat speaker system or something. Seriously, if you've never looked into OSx86, now would probably be a good time.

 

[TheNoize]

Hahahah goddamn that is a sad upgrade. What you guys need to do is seriously build a MONSTER hackintosh system for a third of the price, spend the rest on dual 30 inch displays and a fat speaker system or something. Seriously, if you've never looked into OSx86, now would probably be a good time.

I did, and it's not as pleasing as some people make is seem, no matter how hard I wanted to LOVE OSx86 and hackintosh.

I would spend more than $1000 in a system that'd need to be built to specification, with specific hardware just so that later I could hack it and patch it, to install one fixed version of OS X and still have 1 or 2 hardware features not working. Then, I wouldn't be able to update the OS without worries, because it could just stop working, and I'd have to redo the installation again. Am I wrong?

Sure, it's cheaper. And it's fun to play around with. But is it really worth the hassle and risk, when you need a system to work with Pro Tools or Avid? No, it's not.

PS: you're right that it is a pathetic update to the Mac Pro line, though. I'm glad I'm waiting for my mail delivery of a Nehalem Mac Pro from the previous generation, that I actually got for a good price, new (just over $2100). It's the only way to buy a Mac Pro, IMO.

 

[KnightWRX]

Studios don't give a crap about the price, but the PEOPLE that work in those studios, and have to work from home doing projects for those studios, back and forth, are forced into OS X.

Who cares if you don't pay for it. Again, if the studio finds it a good value proposition, then for them, it's not overpriced at all.

If at home you find PCs to be cheaper, get a PC. They have all the nice professional software and hardware you need too. You are only locked into OS X because you want to be.

 

[TheNoize]

Who cares if you don't pay for it. Again, if the studio finds it a good value proposition, then for them, it's not overpriced at all.

If at home you find PCs to be cheaper, get a PC. They have all the nice professional software and hardware you need too. You are only locked into OS X because you want to be.

You really are stubborn and refuse to listen - it's quite amazing really.

If the studio works with Digital Performer or Logic Audio, and they want you to be comfortable with OS X to work better in the studio, you're stuck to OS X. And they won't pay for a mac themselves either, obviously - that comes out of YOUR pocket because you're the one who wants to work for them. That's how the industry works. I dropped out of computer engineering to do film/music and I understand where you're coming from - but I'm explaining to you how you're completely wrong.

A lot of professionals are forced, to keep their job or get one in the 1st place, to switch to Mac OS X and stay there. If you work in Hollywood and you don't own a Mac, your job opportunities are affected and the studios will not look at you the same way.

I'm OK with you being ignorant about it.
I'm not OK with Apple doing the same thing.

 

[AidenShaw]

You could also conclude the square peg is overpriced because it requires a hammer to fit in your round hole. However, one would conclude that you simply missed the fact that you needed a round peg to begin with, and the price of the hammer has nothing to do with the square peg at all.

You leave me speechless with this comment...

next time, shop for a product that fits you rather than trying to fit a product to your needs.

This is exactly what I was trying to do when I said "Why should I not compare the systems and conclude that Apple is overpriced by $1300 for my requirements?"

I have my list of requirements, I'm trying to find a product that meets them. For my list of requirements, Apple is overpriced by $1300 because Apple does not offer a Core i7 desktop mini-tower similar to offerings from many other vendors.

If my list of requirements included ECC memory or dual-socket systems, the Apple maxi-tower would probably not be as over-priced.

 

[snberk103]

...
On the greed subject: I think none of us is very well placed to see Apples real margins when it comes to computers. Components alone don't cut it, and we tend to only see the big picture of large profits company wide. However I think it would be fair to say that Apple is taking a bigger margin compared to other pc makers, which makes the Mac probably a fair bit pricier than it really should be. That's (osx) monopoly playing, and there's nothing we can do about it legally (unless go the illegal hackintosh way).

Actually, it is widely acknowledged that Apple has greater margins than the PC industry on average, this is not in dispute and one of reasons Apple stock does so well. Apple does not just choose to make mark up their systems more than average because they are greedy.... Consumer demand for their systems allows them the bigger mark ups. All the other PC makers would mark up their systems just as much if demand for their systems was just as great.

Apple can not be said to have a monopoly with OS X because the big field is personal computer systems. Saying Apple has a monopoly with OS X is like saying that Ford has a monopoly on Mustangs, or that Safeway supermarkets has a monopoly on any of their in-store brands.

There is a reason that Apple has, what - $$40 billion is it now?? - in the bank.

It's called being a successful profitable company.

 

[snberk103]

Studios don't give a crap about the price, but the PEOPLE that work in those studios, and have to work from home doing projects for those studios, back and forth, are forced into OS X.

Then you need better work agreements. If your employer is forcing you to work from home, then your employer should be providing the tools or an allowance to buy those tools. If you are an independent contractor then your employer can not dictate what tools you use to provide the final product, except in an indirect way by requiring a certain file type. At least that, in a general way, are the rules in Canada.

If you are independent contractor, your computer is a work expense. You can either choose to buy it and, at least currently in Canada, write-off the entire amount in the first year as capital depreciation thus reducing your taxable profit by the same amount. Or you can lease the system, spread the payments out over a number years and write those off fully as an expense against revenues.

OOPss- Sorry about the sequential posting....

 

[TheNoize]

Then you need better work agreements. If your employer is forcing you to work from home, then your employer should be providing the tools or an allowance to buy those tools. If you are an independent contractor then your employer can not dictate what tools you use to provide the final product, except in an indirect way by requiring a certain file type. At least that, in a general way, are the rules in Canada.

If you are independent contractor, your computer is a work expense. You can either choose to buy it and, at least currently in Canada, write-off the entire amount in the first year as capital depreciation thus reducing your taxable profit by the same amount. Or you can lease the system, spread the payments out over a number years and write those off fully as an expense against revenues.

OOPss- Sorry about the sequential posting....

"Better work agreements"? That is amazingly disrespectful to say to people who try to work their hardest in a difficult industry. No one said people are forced to work from home - but their career chances improve greatly if they do.

To get a Logic or DP file type, or to use certain Apple-specific hardware that is also used in the studio, you need to own an Apple computer - and that was my point exactly. No, it's not as simple as a write off. Things don't always work that way outside Canada. And you sound just as ignorant as an American if you assume that they do...

My point was well proved long ago. Now we're just bickering at exactly what I said, and trying to find holes to poke through.

 

[snberk103]

"Better work agreements"? That is amazingly disrespectful to say to people who try to work their hardest in a difficult industry. No one said people are forced to work from home - but their career chances improve greatly if they do.

To get a Logic or DP file type, or to use certain Apple-specific hardware that is also used in the studio, you need to own an Apple computer - and that was my point exactly. No, it's not as simple as a write off. Things don't always work that way outside Canada. And you sound just as ignorant as an American if you assume that they do...

My point was well proved long ago. Now we're just bickering at exactly what I said, and trying to find holes to poke through.

Not trying to be disrespectful, and I'm sorry if it came out that way. But... I still believe in this case you need better work arrangements, though I can see that under the circumstances it may not be possible at this time. Needing a better arrangement is not the same as getting one. But, you can't blame Apple for pricing an upgrade to a system that does not meet your needs. It is not Apple's fault that the industry you are working in treats it's employees badly.

I specifically mentioned the conditions in Canada because I am aware that I don't know 1) where you are, and 2) whether your country is as advanced in these matter as Canada ( and yes, that is a dig - meant light-heartedly!! )

And I know right now that you probably don't want much advice, but I live in a small community where giving people advice is done all the time. Wait a month or two and grab a system off the Refurb store for a modest discount, or the previous model for a better discount. Then - really try to figure out a way to write it off. The one good thing about these machines is that they should keep you going for 3 years at least, and then they still have some value on the used market.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

They haven't even put up the stuff on the store yet, how do you know there won't be an nVidia option outside the BTO configurations ?

Doesn't matter at this point. There is so much else wrong with their lineup that I can't convince anyone, including myself, to pay for Apple's crap anymore.

They do sell video cards you know :

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/TW386LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU2Nzg

Yup, which is why I complained about that adding to the ridiculous cost. Apple has to snub nVidia to spite Adobe, and I'm not going to pay for it.

Studios that use OS X specific hardware/software don't give a crap about the Mac Pro's price.

Oh yes they do. Bosses and the accountant that answers to them care a WHOLE lot.

People that whine on here are not Studios.

Speak for yourself. It's my responsibility to keep on top of computer tech to help plan my studio's next upgrade cycle. I also wanted a mac pro for home.

And hint : The studios can switch if they see better value in something else, there is nothing specific to OS X that can't be replaced and ties them down forever.

Hint: that's what our competitors did, and that's what we're doing. Apple has officially chased away at least 5 companies that I know of in my area. now they may not care about small business (that much is clear from their product line), but business tire of them, too.

my boss's words, after waiting for the MacPros: "It's just not worth the Apple drama anymore. We can't plan upgrades around the whims of a black turtle neck wearing, tantrum throwing child."

At least our current macs will also run windows as the rest of the company gets brand new windows machines.

It's called being a successful profitable company.

Well, I, my company, and other creative companies in my area are done contributing to that. 6 months from now we'll be mac free.

 

[TheNoize]

6 months from now we'll be mac free.

Yeah? Good luck with that.

Seriously. GOOD luck. You'll need it. And I want you to be lucky, but I don't think you will.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

This is my only qualm about Apple keeping the case. It appears they are hindering the processing power to maintain the same external design.



I dont know how zealots can compare leica and Mac Pros. These baffling analogies are getting more preposterous as time goes on. This is from a Nikon shooter too.



These incremental updates and huge omissions make me so happy I jumped on my EOL 8 core.

Funny!

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Yeah? Good luck with that.

Seriously. GOOD luck. You'll need it. And I want you to be lucky, but I don't think you will.

I really am not looking forward to it.