Apple Announces New Space Gray Mac mini With 4-Core or 6-Core Intel Processor and Up to 64GB RAM, Starting at $799

[imageWIS]

For that money, I'd skip it and go with this
http://www.qnapworks.com/TS-453BT3.asp

It's with posts like these why I don't pay attention to anything you post or respond to you... and neither should anyone else.
[doublepost=1541020857][/doublepost]

It is truly a sad day for Apple users.

Looking at the way Apple is going with the prices with new Mac Mini, Macbook Air, and recent Macbook Pro, I do not expect good things for the Mac Pro.

Furthermore, it is kind of insulting that after 4 years of not upgrading the Mac Mini, Apple puts such a lame overpriced, disposable computer.

- Core i3 - When most computer use core i7.
- Non-replaceable hard drive. So if hard drive fails, which is quite common on SSD drives, you need to trash the computer. So much for environmentally friendly responsibility.
- The pricing is beyond ridiculous for the underperforming specs compared to other products. I rather get an iMac, Macbook Pro or iMac Pro even.

Or not anymore Macbook Air under $1000. Now $12000 they raised the price 20%, and still they deliver with 8GB Ram and 128SSD. A phone or iPad has more memory than that.

It is sad to see how Apple is alienating many long time Apple users. They are tired of overpay for way overpriced, underspec products. Many of them are either switching to PC or looking at building Hackintoshes.
I think that after 20 years of being an Apple user, I better start looking for Hackintoshes.

Tim Cook greed is beyond belief. Zero Innovation and way overpriced products.

I don't think it's possible for me to like this post enough. I don't just like this post, I love this post.

 

[Spectrum]

It is truly a sad day for Apple users.

Looking at the way Apple is going with the prices with new Mac Mini, Macbook Air, and recent Macbook Pro, I do not expect good things for the Mac Pro.

Furthermore, it is kind of insulting that after 4 years of not upgrading the Mac Mini, Apple puts such a lame overpriced, disposable computer.

- Core i3 - When most computer use core i7.
- Non-replaceable hard drive. So if hard drive fails, which is quite common on SSD drives, you need to trash the computer. So much for environmentally friendly responsibility.
- The pricing is beyond ridiculous for the underperforming specs compared to other products. I rather get an iMac, Macbook Pro or iMac Pro even.

Or not anymore Macbook Air under $1000. Now $12000 they raised the price 20%, and still they deliver with 8GB Ram and 128SSD. A phone or iPad has more memory than that.

It is sad to see how Apple is alienating many long time Apple users. They are tired of overpay for way overpriced, underspec products. Many of them are either switching to PC or looking at building Hackintoshes.
I think that after 20 years of being an Apple user, I better start looking for Hackintoshes.

Tim Cook greed is beyond belief. Zero Innovation and way overpriced products.

Rubbish! These prices are very similar to the old Mac mini prices with SSD options, but will give much better performance.
The only losers are those that wanted a cheap dual core HDD option. Or those that wanted internally upgradeable storage drive (I did...but on a mini I am happy to go external using TB3. It sits on my desk, so no problem with permanently attaching external storage unlike with laptops.)

Before long there will be mini shaped eGPU enclosures and mini shaped TB3 HDD and SSD drive arrays. OWC is almost certainly planning something.

 

[Zdigital2015]

No. I didn't mean moving the RAM from the 2011. I meant that the 2018 will come with 2x4GB, so I am wondering about tossing out one of them, and adding a new 16GB RAM stick for 20GB total. Thus a short term upgrade that gets me back where I was (~16GB) without committing to buying 2x8GB (that I might need to throw away in the future) or 2x16GB (perhaps more than I need, ands currently costly).

The question is what "is the most benefit" in terms of matching sticks? Does it actually matter for real world tasks, or only visible in benchmarks?

Sorry...it's been a long day and I just read that one wrong.

I honestly do not know if there is a restriction about the DIMMs being the same size and speed, but I have dealt with DDR4-DIMMs in the Gigabyte Z1270 Ultra Gaming motherboard that I have, and they were pretty explicit that the sizes need to be the same and which slots they go into to work correctly. I suspect that you can add one at a time and I see that OWC will sell one DIMM to you - https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/owc/apple-mac-mini/2018. I also noticed nothing in the Tech Specs for the new Mac mini - https://support.apple.com/kb/SP782?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US that tells me explicitly that they need to be in matched pairs.

I do not know what the percent advantage in speed is by making sure the DIMMs are the same size and speed, probably anywhere from 10-15%, depending. Personally, I am curious as to whether faster DIMMs (3000MHz-4333MHz) are recognized at all, or if they simply default to 2666MHz (I suspect they do).

I have been burned more than once by purchasing RAM at different times and I also ended up re-purchasing 4X8GB DIMMMs for my 2013 iMac, because the Kingston ones I had bought were known to cause Kernel Panics when used together as opposed to 2x8 in a Mac mini, even thought the DRAM was the recommended part # for the Late 2013 iMac. I tend to be cautious and purchase DRAM only in matched pairs as a result or in a complete set. This is part of the reason I think Apple started soldering DRAM to the motherboard, because an Apple Genius told me that improper installation and people buying substandard DRAM on the cheap was the single biggest headache his store and neighboring stores had to deal with in a Mac.

Hope it works out for you, wish I had a definitive answer. RAM prices are horrendous, you have my sympathies.

 

[Spectrum]

I just noticed that the power rating of the 2018 Mac mini has jumped from 85W (2011, 2012, 2014) to 150W.

That is a big jump considering the CPU only went from 45W (max) to 65Watt. I can hope this means that the cooling has improved sufficiently to enable the new chips to turbo without throttling (too much).

 

[IG88]

Yes, what's your point?

Apple charges a lot for upgrades. I think we can all see that. I don't think consumers are particularly thrilled about it but many will still buy Apple products.

However all the complaints don't seem to account for the fact that Apple actually offers a great degree of flexibility in configuration.


Since one cannot use a 970 Pro in the new Mac mini the price of the 970 isn't really relevant. If one wants the storage to be part of the Mac mini, one has to pay Apple. The prices are high. However SSD prices have fallen recently due to a glut in production so perhaps the BTO prices will fall. Even then Apple will charge more than a comparable commodity SSD.

Due to the design of the new Mac line, commodity SSD prices don't really compare. Commodity parts won't work.

This is not a change I am particularly thrilled with. However there is little I can do about it. Whining about it on this board is not productive and is not likely to change anything.

I know Apple charges a premium for their devices. I know this comes with a loss of freedom to upgrade on my part. I still am very much considering buying this new Mac mini.

I haven't seen any justification for Apple massively overcharging for storage. All I've seen are excuses.

 

[imageWIS]

Rubbish! These prices are very similar to the old Mac mini prices with SSD options, but will give much better performance.
The only losers are those that wanted a cheap dual core HDD option. Or those that wanted no internally upgradeable storage drive (I did...but on a mini I am happy to go external using TB3. It sits on my desk, so no problem with permanently attaching external storage unlike with laptops.)

Before long there will be mini shaped eGPU enclosures and mini shaped TB3 HDD and SSD drive arrays. OWC is almost certainly planning something.

Sigh... you understand that to get any sort of DECENT current and future performance you're going to need more than that s h i t integrated GPU and 8GB of RAM Apple is giving with the machine, yes? So you're forced unlike previous mini releases to get a eGPU and currently only ONE of them works without any issues with Mac's and that is the all-in-one https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu hich has blah reviews an tacks onn an extra $800 to the Mac mini's price AND you can't replaced the GPU of the Blackmagic down the road? i.e. it's not an enclosure.

To add injury to insult, Apple charges 2x or 3x more than the retail prices of the exact same components. That's not a premium, that's daylight robbery.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I haven't seen any justification for Apple massively overcharging for storage. All I've seen are excuses.

Well, I'll just be blunt then - Apple does not have to provide justification to you, me or anyone else here. Buy it or don’t buy it. Buy the minimum you need or can live with and move on or don’t...but it is what it is.

 

[Spectrum]

Sigh... you understand that to get any sort of DECENT current and future performance you're going to need more than that s h i t integrated GPU and 8GB of RAM Apple is giving with the machine, yes? So you're forced unlike previous mini releases to get a eGPU and currently only ONE of them works without any issues with Mac's and that is the all-in-one https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu hich has blah reviews an tacks onn an extra $800 to the Mac mini's price AND you can't replaced the GPU of the Blackmagic down the road? i.e. it's not an enclosure.

To add injury to insult, Apple charges 2x or 3x more than the retail prices of the exact same components. That's not a premium, that's daylight robbery.

Maybe...but I've lived with the integrated HD3000 for 7 years, so how bad can an UHD 630 be? Moreover, if it turns out that is bad, then at least I will have an option of an eGPU, something that was not possible with the 2011 or 2012 Mac mini. I don't game so, I all I care about is smooth UI in macOS. The 2011/2012 mini also only came with 4GB RAM standard, so that also benefitted from an upgrade. so nothing has changed in that regard either. At least it is now socketed, unlike the 2014 model.

Also, where do you get 2-3x prices for the eGPU? I was looking and a TB3 enclosure plus GPU was similar to the price of the Black Magic option.

The SSD options are inflated I agree. I have no idea why they continually choose to do this. But with the mini you can get same performance (and more flexibility) by going with TB3 NVMe drives now.

 

[mi7chy]

I just noticed that the power rating of the 2018 Mac mini has jumped from 85W (2011, 2012, 2014) to 150W.

That is a big jump considering the CPU only went from 45W (max) to 65Watt. I can hope this means that the cooling has improved sufficiently to enable the new chips to turbo without throttling (too much).

Isn't the bump in power supply wattage to accommodate power delivery for Thunderbolt3 attached peripherals (15W x 4 = 60W) vs USB 3.0 (4.5W x 4 = 18W) on previous generation?

 

[LordVic]

Alright: Did some Digestion on this. Glad to see the mini finally get some TLC. it was a much MUCH needed update.

But like always, I question and look at value proposition of the products available. So I've done some breakdown on components and what you could get if you bought elsewhere just for comparison. note this is just dollar to dollar comparison and doesn't take into account things like how much you value MacOS vs Windows vs Linux or industrial design. These are things only you can put a value to

All prices are Canadian $. your mileage may vary.

Mac Mini's BASE configuration: $999
CPU: i3-8100
RAM: 8Gb DDR4 @ 2666Mhz
128GB NVME based Storage


Similar build your own: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/8jRxkd
$671
(had to go 250gb NVME as PCPARTpicker couldn't find any 128gb evo 970s)

now, as this is a "custom built" of course the sky is the limit, even based on the same internals. So play around if you want.

there is absolutely an "Apple markup" going here. THe above prices are retail as well, so assume that Apple in the Mac Mini are not paying these prices to build the Mini.

Whether or not it's good value again is up to you. However, if you're not tied to MacOS and you don't need the exact Mini form factor, there are cheaper options that would be available for similar parts.

again, this isn't a perfect comparison, not sure i nailed all the features (if you catch something I missed, let me know I'll update)
[doublepost=1541028209][/doublepost]

For that money, I'd skip it and go with this
http://www.qnapworks.com/TS-453BT3.asp

i'm not sure a NAS based device is even comparable as those NAS boxes do not allow you to run your OS of choice.

Have several QNAP based storage devices at work. I can assure you that their built in OS is in no way suitable for day to day use.

 

[StellarVixen]

Maybe...but I've lived with the integrated HD3000 for 7 years, so how bad can an UHD 630 be? Moreover, if it turns out that is bad, then at least I will have an option of an eGPU, something that was not possible with the 2011 or 2012 Mac mini. I don't game so, I all I care about is smooth UI in macOS. The 2011/2012 mini also only came with 4GB RAM standard, so that also benefitted from an upgrade. so nothing has changed in that regard either. At least it is now socketed, unlike the 2014 model.

Also, where do you get 2-3x prices for the eGPU? I was looking and a TB3 enclosure plus GPU was similar to the price of the Black Magic option.

The SSD options are inflated I agree. I have no idea why they continually choose to do this. But with the mini you can get same performance (and more flexibility) by going with TB3 NVMe drives now.

He says that only Blackmagic works without issues (whatever that means) on Mac OS.

Which is a pure lie. All RX 5xx cards are fully supported via eGPU. The only thing Mac is having problems with is nVIDIA cards.

 

[Spectrum]

Isn't the bump in power supply wattage to accommodate power delivery for Thunderbolt3 attached peripherals (15W x 4 = 60W) vs USB 3.0 (4.5W x 4 = 18W) on previous generation?

Good catch!
Could be... that is a 42W increase, plus notional 20Watt on the new CPU.
Very similar to power rating going up by 65 Watts...

 

[LordVic]

Does anyone have an real word information to know how important it is to have matching RAM sticks?
I currently have 16GB RAM in the 2011 mini, so wondering about dropping in a single 16 GB RAM stick into the new mini for 20GB total, then if needed in the future replace the other 4GB stick for another 16, or even 32 (for 48GB total) when prices drop and if I find I need more ram.

in typical RAM world (unless Apple has some bizarre completely custom controller),

They typically will default to the slowest timing of the combination. you can use mismatched sizes, speeds and timing.

the memory will be additives (so 8 + 4 would give you 12), but as i said, they will default to the slowest speed of the two sticks.

you also wouldn't take advantage of any dual channel mode that may be supported if you use matching sticks.

 

[Spectrum]

in typical RAM world (unless Apple has some bizarre completely custom controller),

They typically will default to the slowest timing of the combination. you can use mismatched sizes, speeds and timing.

the memory will be additives (so 8 + 4 would give you 12), but as i said, they will default to the slowest speed of the two sticks.

you also wouldn't take advantage of any dual channel mode that may be supported if you use matching sticks.

Thanks! I'm not suggested using mismatched speed sticks only different capacities. E.g. 4+16. Does this have any impact? I know my old 2008 MBPro worked fine with 2+4GB.

 

[LordVic]

Thanks! I'm not suggested using mismatched speed sticks only different capacities. E.g. 4+16. Does this have any impact? I know my old 2008 MBPro worked fine with 2+4GB.

as I said, unless Apple di something non-standard and using their own memory controller, mixed sizes should be perfectly usable.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Sigh... you understand that to get any sort of DECENT current and future performance you're going to need more than that s h i t integrated GPU and 8GB of RAM Apple is giving with the machine, yes? So you're forced unlike previous mini releases to get a eGPU and currently only ONE of them works without any issues with Mac's and that is the all-in-one https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu hich has blah reviews an tacks onn an extra $800 to the Mac mini's price AND you can't replaced the GPU of the Blackmagic down the road? i.e. it's not an enclosure.

To add injury to insult, Apple charges 2x or
3x more than the retail prices of the exact same components. That's not a premium, that's daylight robbery.

Afraid I have to disagree with you there. No Mac mini outside of the mid-2011 has ever had a discrete GPU (AMD 6630M) and the BlackMagic eGPU is $699 USD, not $799. Buying an equivalent RX580 8GB card is right at $250 plus or minus depending on the day of the week and the brand or if it’s OC’ed. An eGPU case starts at $200 and goes to $400 to hold that card and provide adequate power. The cost differential ends up at $250, $150 or $50, depending on which enclosure you choose.

As for the integrated GPU, I suggest you go to YouTube and search for “iGPU” and Adobe Premiere before you too incensed about the UHD630. It will do a fine job for most everything people need it to do...at least, let’s see what users find out when they get it in their hands. It’s not Iris Pro, but, well, blame Intel.

Also, 8GB of DRAM is pretty standard for a computer in this price range. Are you expecting more?

Yes, Apple charges too much for DRAM and SSD Storage, it is what it is. Fortunately, we can install our own DRAM now. DDR4 is still expensive, period. DRAM is expensive all the way around right now, DDR3 and DDR4.

 

[StellarVixen]

Apple keeps saying that these are desktop CPUs in Mac Mini, not laptop ones. And, here they explicitly say that RAM is upgradable. This was shared by one member here earlier today, apparently is is from some pdf from Apple's site, but I cannot find which one and where:

 

[imageWIS]

Maybe...but I've lived with the integrated HD3000 for 7 years, so how bad can an UHD 630 be? Moreover, if it turns out that is bad, then at least I will have an option of an eGPU, something that was not possible with the 2011 or 2012 Mac mini. I don't game so, I all I care about is smooth UI in macOS. The 2011/2012 mini also only came with 4GB RAM standard, so that also benefitted from an upgrade. so nothing has changed in that regard either. At least it is now socketed, unlike the 2014 model.

Also, where do you get 2-3x prices for the eGPU? I was looking and a TB3 enclosure plus GPU was similar to the price of the Black Magic option.

The SSD options are inflated I agree. I have no idea why they continually choose to do this. But with the mini you can get same performance (and more flexibility) by going with TB3 NVMe drives now.

I didn't write that.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Apple keeps saying that these are desktop CPUs in Mac Mini, not laptop ones. And, here they explicitly say that RAM is upgradable. This was shared by one member here earlier today, apparently is is from some pdf from Apple's site, but I cannot find which one and where:

View attachment 800107

Yes, they are simply the soldered (BGA) version of the very same Core i7-8700 you would purchase in LGA to put in a 300-Series motherboard. The i5 is the Core i5-8500 and the i3 is the Core i3-8100. The Core i3 seems to be a custom BGA version for Apple that retains the clock speed and not the H or T version.

 

[Macinto$h]

It is truly a sad day for Apple users.

Looking at the way Apple is going with the prices with new Mac Mini, Macbook Air, and recent Macbook Pro, I do not expect good things for the Mac Pro.

Furthermore, it is kind of insulting that after 4 years of not upgrading the Mac Mini, Apple puts such a lame overpriced, disposable computer.

- Core i3 - When most computer use core i7.
- Non-replaceable hard drive. So if hard drive fails, which is quite common on SSD drives, you need to trash the computer. So much for environmentally friendly responsibility.
- The pricing is beyond ridiculous for the underperforming specs compared to other products. I rather get an iMac, Macbook Pro or iMac Pro even.

Or not anymore Macbook Air under $1000. Now $12000 they raised the price 20%, and still they deliver with 8GB Ram and 128SSD. A phone or iPad has more memory than that.

It is sad to see how Apple is alienating many long time Apple users. They are tired of overpay for way overpriced, underspec products. Many of them are either switching to PC or looking at building Hackintoshes.
I think that after 20 years of being an Apple user, I better start looking for Hackintoshes.

Tim Cook greed is beyond belief. Zero Innovation and way overpriced products.

 

[imageWIS]

Alright: Did some Digestion on this. Glad to see the mini finally get some TLC. it was a much MUCH needed update.

But like always, I question and look at value proposition of the products available. So I've done some breakdown on components and what you could get if you bought elsewhere just for comparison. note this is just dollar to dollar comparison and doesn't take into account things like how much you value MacOS vs Windows vs Linux or industrial design. These are things only you can put a value to

All prices are Canadian $. your mileage may vary.

Mac Mini's BASE configuration: $999
CPU: i3-8100
RAM: 8Gb DDR4 @ 2666Mhz
128GB NVME based Storage


Similar build your own: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/8jRxkd
$671
(had to go 250gb NVME as PCPARTpicker couldn't find any 128gb evo 970s)

now, as this is a "custom built" of course the sky is the limit, even based on the same internals. So play around if you want.

there is absolutely an "Apple markup" going here. THe above prices are retail as well, so assume that Apple in the Mac Mini are not paying these prices to build the Mini.

Whether or not it's good value again is up to you. However, if you're not tied to MacOS and you don't need the exact Mini form factor, there are cheaper options that would be available for similar parts.

again, this isn't a perfect comparison, not sure i nailed all the features (if you catch something I missed, let me know I'll update)
[doublepost=1541028209][/doublepost]

i'm not sure a NAS based device is even comparable as those NAS boxes do not allow you to run your OS of choice.

Have several QNAP based storage devices at work. I can assure you that their built in OS is in no way suitable for day to day use.

"Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit $119.50"

So if you got the Linux route this will cost even less (or Hackingtosh ;-) )

 

[StellarVixen]

Yes, they are simply the soldered (BGA) version of the very same Core i7-8700 you would purchase in LGA to put in a 300-Series motherboard. The i5 is the Core i5-8500 and the i3 is the Core i3-8100. The Core i3 seems to be a custom BGA version for Apple that retains the clock speed and not the H or T version.

Good. These are gonna be the beast, only if the thermals can keep up. But that fan does not look convincing. We'll see...

 

[LordVic]

"Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit $119.50"

So if you got the Linux route this will cost even less (or Hackingtosh ;-) )

YEAHHH, Figured I'd include it because most people use Windows with their computers, especially home custom built ones.

This pricing is just to build a mini computer. there are a lot of options you can build out. Will you get an identical computer to the Mac Mini? No. But that's cause they use custom casing.

That custom casing + Mac OS tends to ad about 30% to the overall price comparison. if you're not sold on the Chassis and MacOS, and are fine with Windows / Linux, there are far far FAR more options available for far less.

I Do love the mac Mini form factor and what it COULD bring. I'm just not convinced/ sold on the current pricing.. But then again, the last 2-3 years have seen accross the board price increases on just about every Apple product. take that as you will. Some will find value in it, others will ot. I'm just bringing this up fro comparison because it's always brought up on every computer Apple brings.

Unfortunately i'm finding Apples current price points to be a reach too far. I was willing to accept amoderately small "apple tax" in the past when I bought a few of their products before. But I have a hrd time with it today as it seems like the margins are the most important factor to the price. Not the components.

if a super mini device is what you want, for the similar price point that the Mini sells for, the NUC's from intel offer far higher performance
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produ...102202&cm_re=intel_nuc-_-56-102-202-_-Product

but the feature parity is slightly different

 

[vailr]

- Non-replaceable hard drive. So if hard drive fails, which is quite common on SSD drives, you need to trash the computer. So much for environmentally friendly responsibility.

Probably incorrect. Simply use a bootable external USB 3.0, USB-C, or Thunderbolt SSD in order to attempt a data rescue and/or disk repair of the internal SSD. More than likely to regain use of the internal drive. Or worst-case scenario: continue to use the bootable external drive.
Whether the T2 controlled internal drive can still be accessed when the machine is booted from an external (T2 controller bypassed) drive? Needs further research on that question.

 

[steve333]

Once again, obviously and provably wrong

Cheapo but 8Gb RAM
https://www.costco.com/HP-Pavilion-590-Desktop---AMD-Ryzen-3.product.100431719.html

$849 with 12Gb RAM
https://www.costco.com/HP-Pavilion-590-Desktop---Intel-Core-i7---2GB-Graphics.product.100418430.html

Making things up (to give it the charitable name for what you’re doing) does not bolster your point.

Ha! OK, you got me. A $349 computer has only 8GB RAM. I didn't even know they came that cheap.
Do you really think that proves your point? 12Gb RAM is still more than 8Gb.