doesn't matter, efficiency resources used is per person. in this context, Tesla is clearly the winner in energy and cost efficiency.
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Apple Announces visionOS 2 With Ultra-Wide Mac Virtual Display, Travel Mode on Trains, and More
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Very much looking forward to the ultrawide virtual display for Macs.
It’s kinda ironic when improved mouse and keyboard support is one of the major features of the new visionOS.
Tell us you dont know how mass production and R & D works without telling us you dont know how mass production and R & D works.
And yes. They can cut a few things. For example, heavy glass in front so that others can see your creepy avatar, more plastic, only one headband included, less fits, less performance cores, LED screen, older chip.
Alternatively, they can just wait for the law of technology to continue to work and costs will go down, just like it did for the iPhone, iPad, and Macs, which allowed more and more tech to be packed into the devices.
If you want lower cost products check out the iPhone SE (4$29 base price vs $755 inflation adjusted iPhone 1st gen price), the iPad base model (which was $499 starting no inflation adjustment, instead of the recent $329 iPad 9th gen), and the MacBook mini (which is 75% less than the Mac Studio).
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OK, but did any of the cheaper options you shared start at double or higher their price, then we whined, and Apple cut the price by 50% or more? That's the point I wrote. Yes, Apple certainly could make a Vpro Junior... by putting less in it then the existing Vpro... like iPhone SE was less than full iPhone or Mac mini is less computer than a Mac Studio or Pro.
That's not what people seem to be asking for though. They seem to want the "as is" for substantially lower price... which is why I asked the "What do you want to cut to get half off or more" question?
I can't recall an example of Apple rolling something out at a price and then arbitrarily cutting that price in half or more while still delivering the same product as new.
Yes, there certainly is mass production and economies of scale to factor in too, but I doubt that will get it to $1999 or less. The prices people keep volunteering buy the qualities of products that compete with Vpro... things with 1080p lenses (blurry) and/or other compromises. Apple could build something like those other players to hit similar pricing... but I bet the very same people would then whine about the significant compromises to the product. That's the game here: we want cheap prices for fantastic quality, when it's typically one of the other... as it is with phones and computers and tablets.
That's not what people seem to be asking for though. They seem to want the "as is" for substantially lower price... which is why I asked the "What do you want to cut to get half off or more" question?
I can't recall an example of Apple rolling something out at a price and then arbitrarily cutting that price in half or more while still delivering the same product as new.
Yes, there certainly is mass production and economies of scale to factor in too, but I doubt that will get it to $1999 or less. The prices people keep volunteering buy the qualities of products that compete with Vpro... things with 1080p lenses (blurry) and/or other compromises. Apple could build something like those other players to hit similar pricing... but I bet the very same people would then whine about the significant compromises to the product. That's the game here: we want cheap prices for fantastic quality, when it's typically one of the other... as it is with phones and computers and tablets.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Amen. That is incredible... particularly that they stated "ultra wide at higher quality." The words were something like "...like 2 4K monitors side by side" in talking about the ultra-wide portion... but then they tacked on that "higher quality" view which sounds like sharper image... and something about the Mac doing the processing to deliver the higher quality view. Assuming they deliver, that's where 4K per eye could really shine vs. competitor offerings with 1080p per eye. I bet a super ultra-wide through lower res lenses would not look nearly as crisp.
I work on Mac for many hours each day on a 5K2K ultra-wide monitor. I could never go back to formers like iMac 27" or similar. That much wider screen R.E. is just so incredibly useful. I regret not going there long before I did.
However, when I hit the road, it's a productivity crash if I try to do work on a tiny little 16" screen. This appears ready to bring a much larger ultra-wide on the road too. And that seems fantastic for those road warriors who are more productive on big screens but obviously can't carry a physical ultra-wide with them wherever they travel... nor has one at the ready wherever they happen to stop.
I look forward to checking this seemingly great new benefit out too. I hope the reality lives up to the hype.
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No multi-user support? Do they really expect everyone in a household to buy a Vision Pro headset? They could've easily added multi-user, the whole "recent guest user" feature isn't enough. And definitely disappointed that iPhone mirroring isn't supported yet, when this is THE use case for it.
They let most of that QuickTime technology just rot. They were so far ahead in video streaming, VR, etc.
You could watch full blown TV stations in QuickTime in what 1999?
This. Honestly, this is such a disappointing 2.0 announcement. It feels like 1.5. This project is just not a priority for software engineering.
I understand why, but still.
Honestly, at this point Apple’s probably forgotten that “QuickTime” was ever a thing (let alone a technology that saved Apple from the brink back in the early 1990s). Its DNA is spread throughout all of Apple’s operating systems, but the QuickTime name is probably as well remembered in Apple as QuickDraw (let alone QuickDraw 3D). (Core Media is a newer name that Apple probably would recognize, Core Media definitely borrows from QuickTime, but it finally retired the legacy Carbon and C++ code from QuickTime and lets you use Objective-C and Swift and modern Cocoa paradigms instead.)
I’m reminded very much of WatchOS 2. It makes a lot of sense that the 2.0 version of both OSes wouldn’t really move the needle all that much (coming out basically six months after the 1.0 software). Just the nature of the annual cadence and hardware releases that don’t align with that cadence.
That giant widescreen Mac display almost makes me want one. Maybe in a few years. A $3500+ M2 is not worth it in 2024.
This thing has like 2 hours of battery life. On-device AI would destroy it.
Doesn’t receiver mean the VP will receive Airplay? Aren’t you talking about the other way around (the VP casting Airplay)?
To be fair, it’s just launched. The Apple Watch came out just months before the announcement of watchOS 2. It would take until watchOS 3 or 4 for Apple to really start evaluating what worked well and to make more fundamental changes, that’s just where the watch came out in terms of Apple’s release cycle. And Vision Pro came at a similar time in Apple’s OS release cadence.
Edit: Basically VisionOS 2 is just the stuff from VisionOS 1 that wasn’t ready for release at launch and some minor fixes to issues that popped up for early Vision Pro users. It’ll take another year or two and a full development cycle or two to really make any changes to Vision Pro. I think Personas are still in beta, for instance. (Makes me wonder what Apple’s criteria for graduating them out of beta is and how far out that is.)
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The subsequent WatchOS iterations haven't really changed the product much - it's always been primarily a notifications device with health/fitness tracking. Each OS is mostly a minor refinement with a few new 'fun' features thrown in.
Speaking of Apple Watch, I believe it sold something like 10M units in its first year. I'd be a little shocked if Vision Pro hits even 10% of that this year.
At this price point, with these small incremental updates, the product already feels more destined to rarified Mac Studio / Mac Pro territory than commonplace iMac/Macbook territory.
Still, watchOS 3 and 4 changed some of the user experience paradigms of watchOS pretty dramatically. That’s around the time Apple doubled down on glanceability, for instance, and started to add some of watchOS’s unique information dense view elements. It seems like Apple became more sure of the product and its direction, but it took at least a year post-release for it to happen.
You’d be shocked because the capacity to build the screens maxes out at 1 million units, meaning 500K AVPs in a perfect production environment.
The AVP is never going to be an iPhone in terms of sales. The platform is there to pave the way for what will eventually be glasses, but the hardware for that won’t be commercially viable for another 5+ years. Meanwhile, quite a healthy ecosystem, platform, and developer base is being raised up.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Not thinking we’re going to get cell phone subsidies with a cellular-free Vpro. Might want to look up the fine print on that ancient example “half off discount**” Here, I’ll save you the trouble…
**Requires new two year AT&T rate plan, sold separately.
As I recall, takers at that “savings” paid a lot more than 100% of the price with those terms.
Nevertheless, I'll grant you that if Apple can find someone else to pay them in full for Vpro, who will then package it in a 2+ year obligation with cellular service-like payments, that would offer a path to half off or even iPhone-like "free**" offers. Of course, those Vpro buyers would still be paying in full for it and then some, so I don't really think of that as half off or free... just paying more for it via financing.
Apple could offer maybe 3 years of Apple financing so that people could basically pay their local sales tax and "take a new Vpro home today for free**"... but then they are obligating to a lengthy stream of payment to still pay Apple in full. And if Apple wanted to wash the interest on terms that long, then the person ends up paying MORE for it.
**Requires new two year AT&T rate plan, sold separately.
As I recall, takers at that “savings” paid a lot more than 100% of the price with those terms.
Nevertheless, I'll grant you that if Apple can find someone else to pay them in full for Vpro, who will then package it in a 2+ year obligation with cellular service-like payments, that would offer a path to half off or even iPhone-like "free**" offers. Of course, those Vpro buyers would still be paying in full for it and then some, so I don't really think of that as half off or free... just paying more for it via financing.
Apple could offer maybe 3 years of Apple financing so that people could basically pay their local sales tax and "take a new Vpro home today for free**"... but then they are obligating to a lengthy stream of payment to still pay Apple in full. And if Apple wanted to wash the interest on terms that long, then the person ends up paying MORE for it.
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I didn’t buy mine on a plan and it was a lot cheaper.
The iPod Mini? That had more storage than the iPod, was smaller, way cheaper and in colours.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Did iPad mini start at a high price then get cut in half or more? Else, that’s comparing different products. I offered up the one path to half off or lower was different product, with features & benefits significantly chopped… Vpro Jr… maybe 1080p for each lens, etc.
I know the answer to the iPad question already because I owned that mini.
Look, I'm with everyone wanting Vpro at half price or lower with no compromises. While we’re at it, I want a great Mac at half price or lower, and phone, and iPad too. As we switch the idea to those other products, we immediately know what’s wrong with such wishes. Yet we seem to think it can be done with this Apple product “as is.”
I’d love to see it too… but just can’t see it. Overwhelmingly thrilled for Apple to prove me wrong… but won’t hold my breath.
I know the answer to the iPad question already because I owned that mini.
Look, I'm with everyone wanting Vpro at half price or lower with no compromises. While we’re at it, I want a great Mac at half price or lower, and phone, and iPad too. As we switch the idea to those other products, we immediately know what’s wrong with such wishes. Yet we seem to think it can be done with this Apple product “as is.”
I’d love to see it too… but just can’t see it. Overwhelmingly thrilled for Apple to prove me wrong… but won’t hold my breath.
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That's strange. My AVP worked fine for hours while my Tesla drove me on the freeway. Only thing that would be different on a train is the speed.
edit: maybe the hand tracking and all that wouldn't work right since I was only watching a movie and not actually doing much with the AVP.
I mean I get what you’re saying but yes and no. The iPod came out and then a year (?) later all those same features were part of a lower cost, smaller iPod. I could see that happening. The next vision (not pro) being a feature complete version of this product … but cheaper.
There was a fair amount added which Apple didn’t go to much detail with.
Granted it seems like stuff which should’ve been there on launch like moving icons where you want and mouse support
The way it shows when using a Mac looks great and I think if I got one would certainly use that when using my Mac
Granted it seems like stuff which should’ve been there on launch like moving icons where you want and mouse support
The way it shows when using a Mac looks great and I think if I got one would certainly use that when using my Mac