Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
That’s interesting. I would have to see more sources on them making manufacturers build out 4 possibilities to late pivot for such serious critical components.

You're not even asking the right question to AI. The correct question is to ask, "Is DVT part of R&D?"

Even common sense would tell you to have a backup plan, ESPECIALLY for critical components. Under display Face ID is new and risky. Of course Apple would have several pivots.

A) RGB camera + IR under display
B) IR under display
C) Nothing under display
 
Doesn’t Apple plan iPhones years in advance? Surely it doesn’t take THAT long to decide on something so simple
Apple is not undecided. The leakers are hedging their bets so that, essentially ANYTHING that happens is what they predicted. It’s like them musing that Apple was still figuring out what port was going to be on the iPhone 15 when that decision would have started with the SoC years earlier.
 
I was coming on here to dunk on this article, but I actually think you've convinced me you (and it) could be right here.

It's totally conceivable that they've been running two complete parallel development tracks simultaneously, both of which were locked in and tooled up many months ago. The "decision" still pending is which pre-built, pre-validated option goes to mass production, almost certainly contingent on whether the under-display Face ID yields are hitting acceptable thresholds. If the new sensor arrangement is passing validation, they go with the smaller Dynamic Island. If it's failing, they fall back to the existing screen mold they've been running in parallel as insurance.

Now, I everything I've ever read is that Apple locks in the design 12-18 months in advance, so I don't know how to square that circle, but this is entirely reasonable as far as manufacturing goes.
It’s easy, Apple’s gotten very effective at dealing with leakers. The ONLY information they have that’s even remotely accurate is going to be at least 6 to 12 months old. And the leakers know most readers don’t know how the lead time on iPhone manufacturing works (and those readers that DO know and want to keep their jobs keep their mouths shut). So, while to someone that decided as they were heading out the door to change their shoes, it makes sense that Apple could be making a decision like this right up to August. Last minute decisions are just a part of life.

In reality, for any company that wants to ship on time and in quantities, it’s effortless to mitigate that risk by just doing things WAY earlier. That means that they many times miss out on the “latest” thing in phones, but, then again, those companies that HAVE the latest thing generally don’t have to ship hundreds of millions of devices over 12 months.
 
I was coming on here to dunk on this article, but I actually think you've convinced me you (and it) could be right here.

It's totally conceivable that they've been running two complete parallel development tracks simultaneously, both of which were locked in and tooled up many months ago. The "decision" still pending is which pre-built, pre-validated option goes to mass production, almost certainly contingent on whether the under-display Face ID yields are hitting acceptable thresholds. If the new sensor arrangement is passing validation, they go with the smaller Dynamic Island. If it's failing, they fall back to the existing screen mold they've been running in parallel as insurance.

Now, I everything I've ever read is that Apple locks in the design 12-18 months in advance, so I don't know how to square that circle, but this is entirely reasonable as far as manufacturing goes.

The overall chassis and form factor are frozen at 12-18 months.

Apple might say to Samsung, we want LTPO OLED panels at 6.3"/6.9" dimensions, 120Hz refresh, but the location of the Face ID cutouts can still change. They might say to Catcher for aluminum chassis - 7.8mm thickness, matte finish, 7000-series alloy.

At the end of the day, it's all about money and hedging. Apple can pay for parallel development throw away tooling backups and pay for CNC adjustments.
 
Off topic, but I’m assuming the foldable iPhone will have a tiny Dynamic Island since there’s supposedly no faceid camera? I’m sure it will still be present/not going away, but the rumored screen is so short that it would be nice to reclaim the top of the screen by omitting the Dynamic Island.
 
The size of the physical cut out makes no difference, the DI interface is entirely software based, you could have no cutout there and it still exist. It’s a marketing gimmick that many fell for to help sell and disguise a rather ugly and awkward cut out in the screen. They’ve made people believe it needs to exist for the functionality to work.
I agree completely and hope an adequate DI exists in some form after the need for a physical area has been resolved by burying components under the display. However, what you consider a "gimmick" was quite clever initially and provides a useful function for many of us today. It will be ironic when, in the days following all the great tech developed just to hide the cut out, Settings will include a toggle to provide a highlighted zone (aka, "island") that indicates the status of and provides access to a key function(s). I will toggle that ON.
 
Pre-production (basically finalized though) models are sent to the FCC 6 months in advance for testing.
Not for Apple. At least not for the last several years. They avoid leaks from the FCC by sending the devices as close to preorder as possible. Someone at the FCC is fast-tracking them. They have had multiple instances of devices from the iPhone X to the Apple Vision Pro that had "pending FCC approval" boilerplate on their webpages until days before they shipped. It stops the products from leaking early.
 
Off topic, but I’m assuming the foldable iPhone will have a tiny Dynamic Island since there’s supposedly no faceid camera? I’m sure it will still be present/not going away, but the rumored screen is so short that it would be nice to reclaim the top of the screen by omitting the Dynamic Island.
Current rumors are that the iPhone Ultra will have circular punch hole (hole punch?) cutouts for the selfie cameras on the outer and inner displays. The cutouts aren't the Dynamic Island, since the DI is purely software-based, and can appear the same regardless of the size of the camera cutouts.
 
Again, what is being talked about here? We're only talking about the IR illuminator being:

A) Within the TrueDepth module, OR
B) Separated and put in the left corner
Based on prior rumors and leaked photos, while the IR flood illuminator seems to be the most likely part to go under the display, Apple seems to also be trying to get the IR camera under the display. That's the component that's been shown in the leaked photos as being located at the upper left corner of the display, maybe along with the flood illuminator built into the same component package. The IR dot projector is tougher to move under the display due to the strict geometry requirements for its approximately 30,000 dots, so that's the part that seems likely to still need to be under a cutout in the display, to the left of the selfie/RGB camera, at least for the time being.
 
Must be a slow news day. Yeah, I call BS. There’s no way they don’t have it figured out yet. Especially something so simple.
Moving Face ID's IR camera under the display isn't so simple, or else it would have been done by now. No Android-based phone manufacturer has been able to do it properly, though you can bet they'd dearly like to, so that they could claim a competitive edge over Apple for this component.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zenman12
Apple is not undecided. The leakers are hedging their bets so that, essentially ANYTHING that happens is what they predicted. It’s like them musing that Apple was still figuring out what port was going to be on the iPhone 15 when that decision would have started with the SoC years earlier.
😊

Leakers Apparently Still Undecided on iPhone 18 Pro Dynamic Island​

😊
 
I was coming on here to dunk on this article, but I actually think you've convinced me you (and it) could be right here.

It's totally conceivable that they've been running two complete parallel development tracks simultaneously, both of which were locked in and tooled up many months ago. The "decision" still pending is which pre-built, pre-validated option goes to mass production, almost certainly contingent on whether the under-display Face ID yields are hitting acceptable thresholds. If the new sensor arrangement is passing validation, they go with the smaller Dynamic Island. If it's failing, they fall back to the existing screen mold they've been running in parallel as insurance.

Now, I everything I've ever read is that Apple locks in the design 12-18 months in advance, so I don't know how to square that circle, but this is entirely reasonable as far as manufacturing goes.
I don’t.

No evidence.

No company that manufacturing has ever worked this way for a whole lot of reasons (as you said minimum lead times).

He brushes it that they have zillion of dollars to burn to do this. Even if we take that as true (and it would be a massive waste of capital better spent on actual R&D) the companies Apple contract to make their iPhones, would have to spend money to retool each machine, or build new machine for each plan (A, B, C, D), train the staff for each plan, and so and so forth. Remember Apple doesn’t do any of its own manufacturing. They’re shifting to design more in-house, so they’re partially vertically integrated, but that’s it. This doesn’t even take into consideration the kinks that other issues that can come into play when it comes to test runs of mass print runs. That adds additional time before you can ramp up production (packaging, shipping). And to build for each plan, even if the manufacturing companies that work for Apple had that type of cash, the space and time for training is simply insane.

Most lock in the tech of the previous year(s), figure out to scale it, produce it and sell it. The R&D he speaks about continues on with various early prototypes on various parts (that never see the light of day) to see if it’s feasible, with sourcing raw materials, what machines need to be retooled or made, if the manufacturing process has to be changed, if they can make it all economically work, etc, before pulling the trigger for the next product. The cycle repeats.

You usually get “older tech.” Because prototypes and seeing if you can get something to even work is one thing. Mass production and getting it to work at scale and make economic profit is completely different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unregistered 4U
Am I alone in using and liking the DI functionality? If it gets too small, its function as a convenient and quick access point will be compromised and will need to be provided elsewhere on the display -- that may improve aesthetics but is not a functional improvement.
Yes(You are alone).
 
Not sure if this is true. Apple would definitely have made a decision now. Decisions regarding the next iPhones are generally made much in advance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mganu


Apple is weighing two options for the iPhone 18 Pro's Dynamic Island, and a final decision has yet to be made, according to the Weibo leaker known as Digital Chat Station.

Dynamic-Island-iPhone-18-Pro-Feature.jpg


In a new post today, the leaker says that current supply chain feedback points to an A/B scenario: one option retains the existing screen mold from the iPhone 17 Pro, while the other introduces a significantly smaller "Mini Dynamic Island" enabled by moving the Face ID receiver and transmitter components beneath the display.



The update is a slight shift from the leaker's previous position. Earlier this year, Digital Chat Station claimed Apple was leaning toward reusing last year's design, which would have left the Dynamic Island largely unchanged.

The report was a dissenting voice against a body of reporting, including from Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, DSCC's Ross Young, and multiple other Weibo leakers, suggesting the iPhone 18 Pro would feature a Dynamic Island roughly 35% smaller than on the iPhone 17 Pro.


In a follow-up post, the leaker also addressed the iPhone 18 Pro's rear design. He said that the rectangular plateau design introduced with the iPhone 17 Pro will carry over unchanged, but the back will see "minor adjustments to the body materials and design details.” This is likely a reference to previously rumored changes aimed at achieving a more uniform look between the aluminum unibody frame and glass cutout for wireless charging.

The iPhone 18 Pro and iPhone 18 Pro Max are expected to be announced this fall alongside Apple's first foldable iPhone.

Article Link: Apple Apparently Still Undecided on iPhone 18 Pro Dynamic Island

😀 This is kind of lke saying: "Apple unsure what it will officially name the yet-to-be-officially-named-or-released-iPhone18 and or future phones of similar design"
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Unregistered 4U
Off topic, but I’m assuming the foldable iPhone will have a tiny Dynamic Island since there’s supposedly no faceid camera? I’m sure it will still be present/not going away, but the rumored screen is so short that it would be nice to reclaim the top of the screen by omitting the Dynamic Island.
It’s going to have a Touch ID
 
Irrelevant, they can choose whatever. The real decision is removing the notch/hole/whatever you want to call it entirely
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.