Apple AR/VR Headset Potentially Delayed Until 2023 Amid Development Problems

[Jensend]

For a start, monitors have to be calibrated for professional use and not just to one profile.

Why the heck couldn't you calibrate a VR headset? Apple's headset is rumored to use some kind of OLED, which should have better capabilities than most monitors. OLED's biggest weakness, burn-in, is a non-issue in VR because content doesn't stay stationary on the display. You also don't have to worry about a controlled environment because all external light can be blocked out.

In a "multi monitor" VR set up each virtual display would have a much lower resolution than the total resolution of the headset. Not good.

I understand. I currently use a triple-wide 4K setup. But this will improve over time. With the 4k screens rumored for Apple's headset, you could comfortably have a large 2k*2k pixel space visible without turning your head. And more if you can turn a bit to face content. (is this where you claim most people will get massive neck damage by turning their head a few degrees?).
But screens will get better. As headsets move from 4K->8K->16k, there will be fewer advantages of traditional displays.

You cannot use your keyboard efficiently with your head in VR and software keyboards aren't and will never be good for desktop computing.

You've been told many times that the most popular VR headset already has the ability to show a representation of your real keyboard in VR. And besides, can you not type without looking at the keyboard?

As for home theatre, nobody wants to look like an incel.

I don't know what that means. You accuse VR supporters of being "toxic and troll like," yet you are the one using name-calling in your arguments. I've made friends in multiplayer VR apps. One of my favorite is a sculpting app where several people can work together to make a large detailed scene.

People watch movies side by side with their family and friends.

Really? do you have statistics on that? What percentage of movie and TV show and YouTube viewing is done with multiple people watching the same screen? I'd guess that over well over half of video viewing is alone, often on a smaller device.
And recently, I've actually spent more time watching movies with friends in VR than in person.

If they are alone they most likely like to lie down on one side while watching TV. None of this is good with VR.

You can lie on your back and put a screen on the ceiling while in VR if you prefer.

VR is super niche and will remain so because it is already and will remain connected to very isolated activity and sadly very toxic users.

If it's isolated, why do I have to worry about other users?


I'm fairly bullish on VR tech, but I am aware of potential issues. I think one of the hardest problems will be with optics—making the whole field of view in focus without glare, while also having a compact size. If optics are good enough, screens get up to the 8k to 16k range, and in a more compact form factor than most current VR headsets, I think it's inevitable that VR will replace many of the screens many people use.

 

[BGPL]

I think this project is a solid seven years running. It just means Apple isn't very serious about it. In looking at Oculus sales/interest, I can see why they aren't pursuing these with a ton of effort.

 

[fredrik9]

I think $2000 is too much for it to become a commercial breakthrough.

 

[diddl14]

Ever since this author wrote about iPhone 13 supporting satellite calls, I stopped reading his articles.

 

[lazyrighteye]

Literally anything will move enough units? Not so fast.

The majority of Apple's niche and exploratory products fail.

The G4 Cube, the cylinder Mac Pro, the iPod HiFi, the large HomePod, iTunes Ping. Their recharging mat was announced and didn't even launch.

The TouchBar and butterfly switch keyboard seemed like good ideas but once the first impression wore off people hated them.

VR is super niche and will remain so because it is already and will remain connected to very isolated activity and sadly very toxic users. You only have to listen to some of VR's most fierce supporters to see how toxic and troll like they are. That's probably because they are using VR for unhealthy reasons. That connection to isolation and toxic behaviour will mean that the majority of the public will not want to be associated with them.

Same reason why the majority of the public stay out of other toxic platforms and technologies with fanatic followers.

Sorry, let me slow down... It's called hyperbole. My "literally anything" claim was actually a riff on fun facts like Apple launching a $20 polishing cloth that sold out in minutes much more so than it was a legally binding statement. The larger theme of my post, was how many of us seem to discredit what is possible when you have such a massive and engaged user base like Apple's. It's a luxury that affords Apple the ability to take on more risk (conceive, try and fail) than other companies maybe can. Not insignificant.

Let's be clear: Apple has, without question, seen its share of very public failures (and likely several hundred times more in their R&D labs). Glorious failures. Embarrassing failures. Each one well-documented and arm chair quarterback'd ad nauseam. And while popular beliefs around failure (and far too many things, actually) unfortunately tend to somehow be binary (failure = bad, success = good), the truth is failure, like life, is way more nuanced. It's no secret that failure can be a powerful tool for growth and learning. But it doesn't come easy. It can require actual courage (oops - trigger word alert) to push past your ego, past your pride, to dig down to the gooey center of that big, uncomfortable ball of sucky failure. Those that do, are rewarded with the gift of "a lesson." Lessons are a critical component to growth and improvement. Said another way, improvement can't exist without failure. Even seemingly invisible, nano-failures. I'm thankful Apple had the courage (sorry, not sorry) to try things beyond just "desktop computers." That they pushed past failure, past public ridicule and industry expectation. That they were willing to try, fail and learn in an effort to grow. It's why they are more relevant today than at any time along their evolution. Stagnation does not yield longevity.

Count me as one who unapologetically liked TouchBar (it's on the MBP I am typing on now). Found it a good idea beyond first impressions. Adding flexibility and depth to some the of least used keys on the keyboard was a cool concept I was interested to see evolve. Alas...

Agree: VR is super niche. Today. Should Apple decide to dip a toe in that market, it will be interesting to see whether they can manage to move that niche into something more mainstream. Sometimes they can, other times they can not. Again, interested to see how this pays out.

I fully share the same isolation and toxicity concerns (and more!) you mention about AR/VR. Imagine putting on your VR headset and standing inside Facebook. ? Ugh, no thanks.

 

[chaospet]

As for home theatre, nobody wants to look like an incel.

I don't know what that means. You accuse VR supporters of being "toxic and troll like," yet you are the one using name-calling in your arguments. I've made friends in multiplayer VR apps. One of my favorite is a sculpting app where several people can work together to make a large detailed scene.

It’s bizarre how this guy keeps popping on threads about VR/AR to dismiss VR users as toxic trolls, and simultaneously resort to all kinds of weird ad hominem slanders to dismiss anyone who is into VR. “Incel” seems to be one of his favorite insults, but as you point out, it doesn’t even really make any sense here.

My experience is much more like yours. Certainly there is a % of toxic people in VR, as there is in any online community (this has been an issue in gaming and forums and every other kind of online activity since day 1). But on the whole, I’ve found people on VR to be friendlier and more social than in other games and online environments. I’ve met some cool friends on multiplayer games/apps as well, and have had a lot of interesting conversations with people. It was especially helpful in the early days of pandemic lockdowns. You can connect with people in VR in a way that you just cannot in other online formats, and while we have to be mindful of the potential pitfalls of VR, I think it does really have a lot of potential to bring people together.

 

[panjandrum]

I think $2000 is too much for it to become a commercial breakthrough.

It's pretty expensive, but it's not out of the range of high-end VR currently. MSRP on a card capable of driving it properly is at least a grand, to put it in perspective.

If they can make this integrate properly with SteamVR, plus support Oculus games, and it has a wide FOV? They could get my $. But my guess is that it's going to work with only with Apple operating systems. They will have a lot of work before they could get me to give up my 8K-X.

It's interesting how much power is going into the HMD itself; that could mean it will do some thing, like Wide FOV transforms that can hamper performance in titles where they are needed.

 

[panjandrum]

It’s bizarre how this guy keeps popping on threads about VR/AR to dismiss VR users as toxic trolls, and simultaneously resort to all kinds of weird ad hominem slanders to dismiss anyone who is into VR. “Incel” seems to be one of his favorite insults, but as you point out, it doesn’t even really make any sense here.

Does he show up in anti-VR threads in general? Or only when discussing Apple? Option 1 means he's probably someone who desperately wants to use VR but can't, and thus disparages the experience as a whole and the users who love it in a misguided attempt to make him/herself feel better by making other feel worse (but doing it so badly that he/she is completely ineffective.) IIRC this (the psychological phenomenon of pretending to hate the thing you want but believe you'll never have) is an acknowledged form of cognitive dissonance. Option 2 means he's doing (a very bad job) of attempting to dissuade Apple users from wanting this product because he's a Troll in the pay of any one of the other HMD manufacturers out there.

 

[chaospet]

Does he show up in anti-VR threads in general? Or only when discussing Apple? Option 1 means he's probably someone who desperately wants to use VR but can't, and thus disparages the experience as a whole and the users who love it in a misguided attempt to make him/herself feel better by making other feel worse (but doing it so badly that he/she is completely ineffective.) IIRC this (the psychological phenomenon of pretending to hate the thing you want but believe you'll never have) is an acknowledged form of cognitive dissonance. Option 2 means he's doing (a very bad job) of attempting to dissuade Apple users from wanting this product because he's a Troll in the pay of any one of the other HMD manufacturers out there.

Just referring to the Macrumors forums, I have no idea where else he is active, or what his ultimate motives are.

 

[deconstruct60]

CTFU. Yes, because Apple is going to sell the cool factor of people wearing fanny packs with batteries in them.

Because the batteries on the face with a heady duty "top strap " are so much more hipster cool? Both of them are geeky.

Also, why do think they would need a dedicated SOC for each display? (A tiny display at that). They certainly don't to drive two large 4K displays. Graphics core?

It isn't one processor per display. The rumors are that the displays are on one SoC ( mostly the VR 'half') and the cameras , wireless , audio , etc. ( AR and 'housekeeping' ) on the other. They are not "symmetrical" at all. Far more likely running at two very substantively different power consumption levels.

That would make sense if later going to eventually have an "shrunk" and lower power consuming version of the AR SoC for the AR only products ( where only needed a subset of the cameras and relatively little VR. )

 

[TheMadCow]

Amazes me that anyone who has used VR would think this render is a good design. There's no top support of any kind. How would that not just slide right off your face? Is Apple going to solve the problem of the weight and balance of displays and lenses?

No one is thinking this is a good design. It's not the design.