Apple Asks U.S. for Import Tariff Exemption on Parts for New Mac Pro After Shifting Assembly to China

M2M

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2009
353
488
Good thing it’s not up to you “buy the argument” because your analysis is devoid of any reasoning and is based on incorrect facts. Based on your flawed reasoning everything should be made in the US since it “can be done,” without regard for whether it is profitable.

You are wrong. It cannot be done in the US. There is not enough skilled labor, and the fact that Apple built the low volume trash can Mac here doesn’t change that fundamental and correct fact that you conveniently ignore.

And even if it could be done, Apple is a business so obviously profit matters. You can’t seriously think that a Mac Pro could be manufactured in the US for the same price as in China.
It can be done but would lower profit margins. Of course tariffs would be payed by the consumer making sales numbers of the Mac Pro probably lower. Then apple can decide to either accept lower margins (unlikely) or stop making this product which is not within their acceptance of margins (more likely).
 

brinary001

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2012
805
793
Midwest, USA
Tariffs and regulations allow those in power to give special interest groups they favor benefits at the expense of all other groups. As opposed to a free market where all participants have to deal with the same market forces without special favors from the government.
If I'm not mistaken, the free market approach is generally considered the more capitalist one, yeah? Seems kind of ironic then that it makes it harder other companies to compete, even if they'd be the more valuable one to customers.
 

genovelle

macrumors 6502a
May 8, 2008
989
734
No other sources or don’t want to pay more for there to be other sources? C’mon Apple, you’re already making a killing in margins.
Their margins tend to be pretty consistent on Hardware. Between 34 and 38%. If something falls lower than this they usually pass.
 

genovelle

macrumors 6502a
May 8, 2008
989
734
It can be done but would lower profit margins. Of course tariffs would be payed by the consumer making sales numbers of the Mac Pro probably lower. Then apple can decide to either accept lower margins (unlikely) or stop making this product which is not within their acceptance of margins (more likely).
Considering 60% of Apple’s Sales are outside the US the cost of building in the US which would be 2-3 times higher and still having to import the majority of parts from China would making them still hit by tariffs. This would be a double wammy!
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors 603
May 30, 2002
6,050
1,626
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Man what a scummy move
Lol I KNEW this would happen and that the 2013 was a marketing push. Time to get over it because if you really think about, Dave Chappele said it best: no American wants a career building anything in a factory with tiny parts. Cars yes but not much anything else. Lifestyle and living standards have risen beyond that.
 

Brandhouse

macrumors 6502
Aug 6, 2014
428
674
It can be done but would lower profit margins. Of course tariffs would be payed by the consumer making sales numbers of the Mac Pro probably lower. Then apple can decide to either accept lower margins (unlikely) or stop making this product which is not within their acceptance of margins (more likely).
So let's have a look at what people are paid (not payed).

Chinese factory workers are now getting paid more than ever: average hourly wages hit $3.60 last year, spiking 64 percent from 2011, according to market research firm Euromonitor.

How much does a Factory Worker make in the United States? The average salary for a factory worker is $11.83 per hour in the United States.

So by your logic, you'd accept paying more than 3 times what you already pay for Apple products? Can't see any company absorbing those sort of costs so that you can enjoy paying what you currently do.
 

M2M

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2009
353
488
So let's have a look at what people are paid (not payed).

Chinese factory workers are now getting paid more than ever: average hourly wages hit $3.60 last year, spiking 64 percent from 2011, according to market research firm Euromonitor.

How much does a Factory Worker make in the United States? The average salary for a factory worker is $11.83 per hour in the United States.

So by your logic, you'd accept paying more than 3 times what you already pay for Apple products? Can't see any company absorbing those sort of costs so that you can enjoy paying what you currently do.
I didn’t say I accept it. However comparing wages is looking too narrow. Most of the production is automated anyway.
 

FairlyKors

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2018
153
140
Staines, East London
Laughable is the nicest thing I can say about the comments here. It seems MacRumors is filled with armchair production engineers and import/export experts. I said it before and I’ll say it again, if you think that the jobs performed by the uneducated masses of third world countries are a good thing, maybe you should question your life choices. America is past manufacturing, other developing countries are not. Get a decent education and this will not be an issue to you.
You’re essentially saying that without a college education your ability to work in a manual labor position is either if no worth or shouldn’t exist. And the answer is to “go get educated,” which is simply not a reality for everyone.

There are millions and millions of necessary manual labor jobs in the US. If electronics assembly can be judged to be irrelevant then so can millions of jobs that people (who weren’t able to get the education you mention) depend on.

You’ve taken the general trend of the US economy moving to a service dominated workforce and applied it literally, to every conceivable US job.
 

mytdave

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2002
582
703
I hope the Admin. increases the tarif to 50%... Build the damn machine here in the States!
 

Mattgeorge

macrumors newbie
Aug 17, 2011
7
0
Laughable is the nicest thing I can say about the comments here. It seems MacRumors is filled with armchair production engineers and import/export experts. I said it before and I’ll say it again, if you think that the jobs performed by the uneducated masses of third world countries are a good thing, maybe you should question your life choices. America is past manufacturing, other developing countries are not. Get a decent education and this will not be an issue to you.

This is by far the most ridiculous comment in this thread.

America is past manufacturing?!?!?

As if it’s as simple as everyone can get a decent education magically and not be indebted in the student loan crisis.....

The smugness of this post is ridiculous. It’s along the lines of learn to code.
 

Saipher

macrumors 6502
Oct 25, 2014
276
922
CA, USA
You’re essentially saying that without a college education your ability to work in a manual labor position is either if no worth or shouldn’t exist. And the answer is to “go get educated,” which is simply not a reality for everyone.
Having an education doesn’t necessarily mean a college degree. There are technical and apprenticeship trainings, both of which require an education.

There are millions and millions of necessary manual labor jobs in the US. If electronics assembly can be judged to be irrelevant then so can millions of jobs that people (who weren’t able to get the education you mention) depend on
Just because America has moved away from manufacturing, it doesn’t make other labor intensive (manual labor) jobs obsolete or non-important. We still need mechanics, farmers, construction workers, people doing deliveries, landscapers, etc...

You’ve taken the general trend of the US economy moving to a service dominated workforce and applied it literally, to every conceivable US job.
No I did not. All I said is “America is past manufacturing”. You are the one that applied that concept to “every conceivable US job”.

I never said any of that, and I don’t know how you arrived to those conclusions.
 

lxmeta

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2018
19
11
Austria

The administration has promised relief if companies can show that parts or products can only be obtained in China, among other factors, according to the report. In all of its exclusion requests (search for Apple), Apple indicates that "there are no other sources for this proprietary, Apple-designed component."

China
First this capitalistic mantra “the market will regulate everything”, then imposing import taxes on stuff that was outsourced for pure greed (cheaper labor, nothing else). And now they want exceptions...
This is kindergarden and double standards all the way!
 

trainwrecka

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2007
394
327
Earth
Laughable is the nicest thing I can say about the comments here. It seems MacRumors is filled with armchair production engineers and import/export experts. I said it before and I’ll say it again, if you think that the jobs performed by the uneducated masses of third world countries are a good thing, maybe you should question your life choices. America is past manufacturing, other developing countries are not. Get a decent education and this will not be an issue to you.
Get an education and you will realize how this hurts those on the bottom in America trying to rise up.
[doublepost=1563974368][/doublepost]
C’mon Apple, you’re already making a killing in margins.
Not once you add in the R&D expenses.
 
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ondert

macrumors 6502
Aug 11, 2017
353
691
Italy
Greedy Tim never gets enough. We didn’t forget your fake tears for what? Apple TV+... Pathetic!
 

C00rDiNaT0r

macrumors regular
Jan 12, 2006
231
28
New York, New York
what? and avoid paying their fair share?
What is the fair share? If a $1000 product was sold in foreign countries, Is Apple responsible for paying local (in that foreign city/state/country, where the sales occurred) as well as American taxes? If that's "fair", how will Apple compete with foreign brands on price, when those brands may not pay taxes back to their own countries?
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
682
39,015
Criminal Mexi Midget
What is the fair share? If a $1000 product was sold in foreign countries, Is Apple responsible for paying local (in that foreign city/state/country, where the sales occurred) as well as American taxes? If that's "fair", how will Apple compete with foreign brands on price, when those brands may not pay taxes back to their own countries?
taxes apply evenly , hence the reason they are asking for exemption., don't like tariffs? built it here.
 

Remy149

macrumors 6502
Oct 20, 2016
317
543
Japan had an early start on a lot of things. 2 out of 3 existing worldwide gaming platforms are still from Japan: Sony PlayStation and Nintendo. 2 out of 2 most popular DSLR manufacturers are Japanese: Canon and Nikon. It has automotive industry with the world’s best selling cars. Not to mention a bunch of other electronics companies like Panasonic.
Not everything fell and was sold.

Speaking about demographics and other stuff I’d say US is an example of what can go wrong with its intentional homicide rate 25 times higher than in Japan. Also Japanese have the highest life expectancy in the world.
Many countries would die to be such example of ‘wrong’ as Japan. So it depends on the definition of what is considered wrong here.
PlayStation and Nintendo consoles aren’t manufactured in japan though. Both companies have warned that the tariffs will force console hardware price to go up 20%