Apple Asteroid?

[sif1949]

All current Macs come with USB 2.0, but it's true that there are more Macs with Firewire than there are with USB 2.0. However, there are probably more Macs with SCSI than Firewire and interfaces do come and go and I'm just saying that Firewire is probably on the way out. Firewire is being squeezed between USB 2.0, Serial ATA, and gigabit (and faster) ethernet. If it weren't for the DV camera market I suspect that Firewire would already be "dead" in the consumer space. I place some of this blame on Apple (they didn't push Firewire products and the Firewire spec hard enough), although with the Mac's small market share it's kind of difficult for Apple to move the industry in the "right" direction (which, IMO, should have been Firewire for high-speed and bus-powered devices and USB for low-speed and absolutely lowest-cost devices). I don't think Apple can turn this trend around (it's really too late), so for all intents and purposes Firewire is soon to be "running on empty."

There is also the issue of product cost. Today, partly as a result of its limited market share Firewire is just more expensive than USB 2.0. Also, if Apple really wants another "hit" consumer product it should work on both Macs and PCs and USB 2.0 is significantly more common on PCs than is Firewire (and if you exclude the iLink or non-bus-power versions of Firewire then the disparity becomes even greater).

Here is my prediction, in another three years you won't be able to find consumer-targeted, Firewire-based products (except, perhaps, for "old," legacy-style DV cameras). I don't know how long it will be before Apple stops putting Firewire in their Mac (computer) products, but that may also happen within the next five years. True, three to five years is a long time in the computer industry, and there is still time to market Firewire products, but I suspect that they will represent a dying breed.

first of all in the audio world firewire is one of the fastest ways to get audio in your computer every hardware audio interface manuf. is making one i.e. motu, m-audio, digidesign, tascam, edirol/roland, presonus etc. all of them are using firewire it's usb 2.0 thats on it way out. second I imagine pple is competing with Avid, Avid owns Digidesign(Protools audio editing competes with Logic),Avid(video editing competes with final cut pro),M-audio (music hardware equipment no competion) they are one of apple #1 competors in the creative fields Apple needs to get into the hardware field to stay competive with Avid.

 

[Photorun]

Here is my prediction, in another three years you won't be able to find consumer-targeted, Firewire-based products (except, perhaps, for "old," legacy-style DV cameras). I don't know how long it will be before Apple stops putting Firewire in their Mac (computer) products, but that may also happen within the next five years. True, three to five years is a long time in the computer industry, and there is still time to market Firewire products, but I suspect that they will represent a dying breed.

I respectively disagree with you. In fact I'm finding more and more things with IEEE 1394 technology beyond just DV cameras including audio. There's various developments in Firewire in external hard drive makers currently underway, as well as, optical media solutions which can push a lot more through FireWire 800 than through USB2. And peecee makers aren't backing away from FireWire, considering many that are made now, a growing number, include FireWire. Sales of FireWire devices have increased and even PeeCee World gave a favorable nod to FireWire over USB because of it's ability to power devices and currently hold the speed lead (almost 2X for FW 800 vs. USB 2.0). If your predictions are right (though I highly doubt it) it'll be a sad day because FireWire is currently vastly superior to USB technology and probably always will be, it will be yet another case of the better quality technology being Betamaxed. Then again, maybe you're right, buyers are incredibly stupid, look how many people buy peecees in the first place.

 

[fpnc]

first of all in the audio world firewire is one of the fastest ways to get audio in your computer every hardware audio interface manuf. is making one i.e. motu, m-audio, digidesign, tascam, edirol/roland, presonus etc. all of them are using firewire it's usb 2.0 thats on it way out. second I imagine pple is competing with Avid, Avid owns Digidesign(Protools audio editing competes with Logic),Avid(video editing competes with final cut pro),M-audio (music hardware equipment no competion) they are one of apple #1 competors in the creative fields Apple needs to get into the hardware field to stay competive with Avid.

I'm talking about the consumer space, not the "pro" or prosumer customer. USB 2.0 is currently and will continue to be the high-speed, peripheral wired-interconnect of choice for the vast, vast majority of non-pro users.

 

[Zigster]

I sense trouble coming down the road for Digidesign and Protools.

 

[Engagebot]

well, the problem is that there are already great devices like this available. You can get an maudio box for cheap too.

The only difference, is now you have RCA outs specifically for powered studio monitors, but how many GB users use real monitors?

 

[Engagebot]

you see trouble for digidesign? you're completely alone i'm afraid. you dont understand how established protools is in the industry. if GB is your first look into the pro audio engineering world, your view is slightly skewed.

protools has such a huge grip on the studio software and hardware markets, its going to take something huge for apple to step in here. garageband has a long way to go before it can beat an mbox, much less even a 002.

if you think GB is in any way, shape, or form going to compete with protools, you just have no experience in the field of audio engineering.

if ANYBODY is going to be able to take away from digi, its presonus. they're the only ones remotely capable. i have several friends that work at presonus, seeing as how they're based here in baton rouge. presonus has HUGE credentials with super-solid PRO studio products.

presonus makes some of the most quality preamps on the market, and thats hard to ignore. plus i know the guys working on the software. its solid.

 

[WinterMute]

I sense trouble coming down the road for Digidesign and Protools.

Different beast entirely, besides, if you want to use ProTools, you have to use Digi's hardware. What this little box from Apple will do is provide an interface for whatever Garageband turns into and for Logic Express.

Pro's won't touch it for the lack of digital in/out and only stereo minijack outputs, and it won't be a superior product to M-box or the 002 interfaces or the M-audio boxes, as they all feature hardware monitoring solutions to defeat latency problems.

It's a good idea for entry level musicians and as a more accomplished audio input for FCP and GB.

 

[RandomDeadHead]

Screw garageband!

This is a tool to help out the fledgling concert taper.


Still would never compare to my Oade Pre-amp with hand matched components.


Like I said Garageband can eat **** and die, this device has a much more dignified use, to aid in the legal live recording of the finest music ever know to man.

 

[fpnc]

I don't think there is any question that Firewire is on the way out. For certain applications Firewire IS technically superior to USB, but that's not going to stop the change. The truth is fewer and fewer products are being released in the consumer area that use Firewire. External storage solutions are going to serial ATA and USB 2.0, digital video cameras are going to USB 2.0 and MPEG2/4 (IMO, DV format cameras are also a dying breed, DV25 can't cut it in the age of HDTV and digital TV, and the next generation video cameras using MPEG2/4 are already here).

As far as peripheral ports, here is what I think the consumer iMac will look like in another 3 to 5 years.

USB 2.0 (or better -- USB 2.0+).
Airport Extreme (or better).
BlueTooth OR Wireless USB.
Video Out port (much the same as today, VGA and SDTV).
Audio in/out (analog and possibly optical).

Firewire will be removed and replaced (possibly) with a single ExpressCard adapter port (ExpressCard is a small PCI-Express-based replacement for the PCMCIA/PC Card). This way a person can add a high-speed ethernet, serial ATA, or Firewire card if they so desire. The PowerBooks and possibly iBooks will also get an ExpressCard port and thus the iMac will just be a slightly larger form-factor variation of a notebook computer. Apple might keep a 10/100 ethernet connection to satisfy the small business and education markets.

High-end Macs (Power Macs and PowerBooks) will most likely add a serial ATA port, gigabit or faster ethernet, and (of course) DVI video out.

I respectively disagree with you. In fact I'm finding more and more things with IEEE 1394 technology beyond just DV cameras including audio. There's various developments in Firewire in external hard drive makers currently underway, as well as, optical media solutions which can push a lot more through FireWire 800 than through USB2. And peecee makers aren't backing away from FireWire, considering many that are made now, a growing number, include FireWire. Sales of FireWire devices have increased and even PeeCee World gave a favorable nod to FireWire over USB because of it's ability to power devices and currently hold the speed lead (almost 2X for FW 800 vs. USB 2.0). If your predictions are right (though I highly doubt it) it'll be a sad day because FireWire is currently vastly superior to USB technology and probably always will be, it will be yet another case of the better quality technology being Betamaxed. Then again, maybe you're right, buyers are incredibly stupid, look how many people buy peecees in the first place.

 

[AlanAudio]

Many people here have commented on the lack of MIDI features.

What if Apple has decided that it's time to give mLAN a push into the mainstream ?

mLAN uses a FireWire connection to handle hundreds of audio channels and thousands of MIDI channels all at once. Support for it is already built into OS X.

Just as Apple popularised USB, Apple could also do the same for mLAN.

MIDI can be a minefield for the non-specialist user and I think that Apple would favour an alternative, newer standard to avoid customers getting frustrated with MIDI.

If most of the information published were gained from examining the outside of a box, you wouldn't have a clue whether the FireWire port was only a FireWire, or if it were intended for mLAN as well.

The other huge benefit from using a FireWire connection is that you can add several devices at once.

Therefore if you start by getting one box just for you and your guitar, you could add a second box to simultaneously record a pair of stereo mics on a piano.

There is a mention of a headphone socket. It would be really neat if that socket had a proper accessible volume control and the feed to the headphones could be independent from the feed to another Asteroid box.

Then you would be able to send one foldback mix to box one and a different mix to box two. In practice, you would locate one box near each musician and would have two mics and a foldback feed for each musician. The result would be an instant and scalable mini studio.

There would be limitations regarding FireWire cable lengths, but small groups would easily be accommodated within permissible cable lengths.

It wouldn't be comparable to a pro-recording set-up, but it would do all that many musicians and schools could want and it would be an excellent way to migrate users from GarageBand towards the Logic range.

 

[katanna]

Does anyone know...
...I'm trying to hide all my wires from my iMac. So far, I've only got one wire (apart fom power) coming out of it - it's an apple thin firewire cable that leads to a firewire hub behind my bed.

I have been wanting one of these for a while:
The U. F. O.
The USB FireWire Organizer
http://store.yahoo.com/lovemacs/noname7.html

Apparently, they are not selling them any more. It is from Xtreme Mac, but it is not on their site any more.
http://www.xtrememac.com/index.html

Keep searching eBay.

Matthew

 

[Mike Teezie]

As said early.. maybe midi in/out/thru. I'd like to see 1/4" jacks instead of XLR or put the kind that can accept either 1/4" or XLR in the same place. Digitial in/out would be nice. Oh and hopefully it's full duplex.

Again, if the specs on this rumored device are accurate, it already does.

TRS cables are 1/4".

 

[thevessels]

It must have MIDI in and out!?!?



strange otherwice...

i was thinking the same thing . . but then again all my midi hardware is usb . . how cool would an apple midi controller be . .. omg

 

[fpnc]

Here, thankfully you say, is my last post concerning Firewire (getting a bit off the Asteroid discussion). Below is a link to a white-paper by James Wiebe who is the founder and CEO of WiebeTech LLC (a well known HD storage vendor). It discusses the future of Firewire and specifically the failure in the marketplace of Firewire 800. Mr. Wiebe is still relatively upbeat on Firewire 400, he says that FW400 will remain common and hold market share "well into 2006." He also predicts that by year 2006 Firewire 800 will disappear from high-end Macs (but, by extension, should retain Firewire 400).

http://www.dvformat.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=28819-0

I agree with most of what he says, except that I think that Firewire's glory days are certainly over. As to the 2006/2007 timeframe, I'd guess that that is about the time that Firewire becomes relegated to a mostly legacy support status for pre-existing (by then "old") DV cameras. But, remember, here I'm talking about non-pro applications.

In any case, I agree that Firewire IS technically superior to USB and I own at least ten Firewire peripherals (drives, scanners, DV/TV capture devices, cameras, hubs, etc.). I suspect that in the next year I'll buy another one or two Firewire products, but (once again) I don't think the long-term future looks very bright for Firewire. It's a sad but, I believe, true fact that we Mac users are going to have to learn to accept.

 

[pianojoe]

Mmmmm... very interesting.

1. Where's Midi in/out?
2. Can a FW port really deliver phantom power? We're talking 48V here.
3. The iMic mentioned above is not a tool aimed at musicians. In their FAQ there's a question: "What is iMic's latency?" And the answer is: "If you are concerned about latency, in the first place you definitely need something more sophisticated than the iMic."

 

[LethalWolfe]

fpnc,

I don't have time to make an in depth reply (I have a plane to catch), but your predictions about FW400, at least in regards to consumer video, are way off. DV25 is going to be around in the consumer realm for years to come. The "next big thing" in DV is HDV (hi-def MiniDV, which has FW400 I/O) and it'll be a while before it trickles down into the $600-$700 consumer range (assuming the format takes hold). In the pro area part of FW800's "ho-hum" reception is because FW400 is being stretched farther than I think people thought it would stretch. You can get uncompressed SD and HD (Panasonic's DVCPro HD) over FW400.

Everyone assumes that every new tech that's just around the corner is going to explode onto the market the way DVD or MiniDV did. But that's just not the way it works. HD has been the "next big thing" for years. But it has come at a pretty gradual, evolutionary pace, not the huge, revolutionary "bang" people keep predeciting it will be.


Lethal

 

[foniks2020]

It's got to be mLAN

As noted above this has got to be the big push for mLAN hardware by Apple... so far there are fewer than 10 products available that I can find..

Here's a link to a good site:

http://www.mlancentral.com/mlan_info/mlan_ppf.php

 

[bretm]

Who said firewire was "dead" in consumer space. This obviously isn't going to be marketed (maybe not even work) to anybody but mac users. And all macs have a firewire port. Firewire speed is more than enough for this kind of data transfer. What do you want? USB2.0? Most consumer macs don't have it, and usb1.1 is too slow.

I guess you've never heard of the Digidesign Mbox? It is USB 1.1 box with xlr in and out as well as rca out. 48v phantom power as well, and there is no power adapter. Comes with copy of Protools LE. I can run every aspect of the mac audio in/out of it except alert sounds. 1.1 aint too slow for audio by any means. Audio requires next to no bandwidth at all. Have we forgotten that a previous version of the G4 only had usb audio out?

 

[AlanAudio]

I'm delighted that foniks2020 picked up on my comments about mLAN.

If it weren't for that, Asteroid would be another 'me too' product. It doesn't offer much of significance beyond what has already been on the market for a while and Apple usually prefers to be a step or two ahead of the herd, rather than to follow.

mLAN is an interface designed around FireWire and if it becomes established, it will further secure FireWire's position for the future. It also offers the promise of plug and play interconnectivity for audio equipment, just as it already does with video cameras. It carries multi-channel audio, MIDI, timecode and power and you only need to ensure that the cable is connected in some way - there is no dedicated input or output. FireWire hubs allow fanned-out connections. I understand that cable lengths can be greater than on FireWire, but am anable to confirm that at the moment. Perhaps somebody can enlighten me ?

At the moment, as Foniks points out, there's very little mLAN hardware available, but when the iMac first appeared, there was very little USB hardware and now it's everywhere.

Somebody needs to get the wagon rolling and who better than Apple ?

On the subject of phantom powering.

A number of people have queried whether FireWire can supply the 48 volts needed. It's not directly powered, they use a DC to DC convertor to step up the voltage. It's already been done in some of the portable FireWire audio adaptors and 15 years before that, things like battery powered portable mixers and Nagra tape recorders were using DC converters to generate 48 volts phantom power. It's a well established technique and it works very efficiently.

 

[geminitsl]

I guess you've never heard of the Digidesign Mbox? It is USB 1.1 box with xlr in and out as well as rca out. 48v phantom power as well, and there is no power adapter. Comes with copy of Protools LE. I can run every aspect of the mac audio in/out of it except alert sounds. 1.1 aint too slow for audio by any means. Audio requires next to no bandwidth at all. Have we forgotten that a previous version of the G4 only had usb audio out?

Let's not jump to conclusions here .. Sure, USB 1.1 is enough for one stream of 44khz to 96khz audio in 16 to 24 bits. For two aswell, no problem. But after that, you have to start cutting quality for it to fit. Audio requires _a lot_ of bandwidth, and that's a fact.

 

[NickFalk]

I don't think there is any question that Firewire is on the way out. For certain applications Firewire IS technically superior to USB, but that's not going to stop the change. The truth is fewer and fewer products are being released in the consumer area that use Firewire.

I think you are pretty much as wrong as you can be. While you might be right that USB2 is taking firewire's place in low-end consumer-products there are at least one huge scoop already made by firewire that will assure it's continued success: HDV

HDV will make HD-video recording accessible to "everyone(tm)" and as the chosen standard for this technology is already firewire, this alone will assure that the technology survives. As DV already uses firewire and the "next" techonology is also scheduled to do so, consumer videocameras will use firewire for the next 10-15 years at least...

 

[bretm]

Let's not jump to conclusions here .. Sure, USB 1.1 is enough for one stream of 44khz to 96khz audio in 16 to 24 bits. For two aswell, no problem. But after that, you have to start cutting quality for it to fit. Audio requires _a lot_ of bandwidth, and that's a fact.

The mbox does dual streams both ways at the same time. In and out. Think about it. Transcoding audio to 44.1 or 48 is a 1x real time operation. Like an audio CD playing. It only requires abut 500 mebabytes an hour transfer rate for 2 streams. 250mb an hour for one stream. Anyone that has ever owned a 4x USB CD burner knows that even a CD can be burned across USB in 20 minutes.

So I don't know what the exact transfer specs are of usb, but audio is not a hog. Maybe I'm used to working with multiple streams of uncompressed video. They even made real time mpeg2 convertors (cheap ones albeit) that worked over usb.

 

[Photorun]

I guess you've never heard of the Digidesign Mbox? It is USB 1.1 box with xlr in and out as well as rca out. 48v phantom power as well, and there is no power adapter. Comes with copy of Protools LE. I can run every aspect of the mac audio in/out of it except alert sounds. 1.1 aint too slow for audio by any means. Audio requires next to no bandwidth at all. Have we forgotten that a previous version of the G4 only had usb audio out?

I've heard of it, and own one, I also use a Digi002 that uses FireWire 400. The Mbox is cabable but it's two tracks at best and I have found limitations to it recording even two tracks and, when recording remotely, the Mbox is woeful, USB just doesn't cut it, sorry folks. FireWire however has bandwidth to burn with eight tracks (I've only gotten up to six) running into a Powerbook with effects galore pounding it... nothing USB 1 or 2 could use. Those who think FireWire will be dead, talk to me in five years so I can give you a hearty "way to be wrong, I told you so."

 

[dutchmaster]

Firewire on its way up not out.

There is a wealth of information which directly contradicts your notion that Firewire is on the way out. If anything, it seems Firewire is finally emerging as THE MUSIC INTERFACE STANDARD. And since this thread was about the possible Apple Asteroid, i will try to restrict my arguments and refernces to the realm of music tech.

As far as the statement that "in another three years you won't be able to find consumer-targeted, Firewire-based products (except, perhaps, for "old," legacy-style DV cameras). I don't know how long it will be before Apple stops putting Firewire in their Mac (computer) products, but that may also happen within the next five years. ... I suspect that they will represent a dying breed."
I think all you need to do to debunk this theory is look at the products that are being released right now as opposed to those released in the last few years. The ratio of Firewire based interfaces vs. USB in the last few years has increasingly moved toward Firewire and Apple's reluctance to establish USB 2 as a standard on all their computers is undoubtably a sign that they value firewire more highly. Don't forget that it was Apple who despite the cries of the message boards, ditched floppy drives , adopted USB and firewire, and have constantly innovated while many PC manufacturers offered the status quo. For just a snapshot of the emerging new Firewire technologies, these are items with Firewire released in one week at the most recent AES show:
Presonus firestation
Mackie Onyx 400F
Otari ND-20B w/ mLan control software
Tascam FW 1082 Firewire Audio/MIDI interface
tascam FW-1804 firewire audio/midi interface
tascam IF-FW/DM firewire expansion card for DM-24
Lynx Aurora 192 khz w/ optional firewire expansion card
and that was just one week at one trade show. To quote the aptly named MLanman :
"I saw a few new mLAN products from other companies and 3 new mLAN chips from other manufactures at AES... all working and talking to each other!"
One of the most important of these emerging technologies and products(besides Yamaha's emerging mLan ) MAY be Mackie's decision to offer Firewire options for their Onyx series of mixers (including the new 1220, 1620 and 1640) and digital X.bus systems. As one of the most popular choices for small and home studio mixers, Mackie is a company which offers many consumer priced products with 'Pro quality' parts and construction and has a strong following among budget minded home studio owners.
The choices for Firewire audio interfaces include some of the most popular and legendary products in the field including the long running MOTU 828 series which was Firewire from the start. Other notable best sellers and new products include the RME fireface 800, MOTU's 896, 828 mkII and Traveler, Tascam FW1884 DAW controller and audio/midi interface, Digidesign's Digi 002 LE rackmount and desktop, M-Audio's FW1814, Firewire 410, Firewire Solo and Audiophile 2496, TC Electronic's powercore, the Presonus Firepod, edirol's FA101, terratec's Phase 24 and EWS MIc2 systems and Aureon 7.1, Creamware's Z-Link, Hercules 1612, Alesis' Fireport 1394, E-Mu's 1212M system. Almost all of these are new and emerging products whose makers saw the possibilities of firewire and chose to move in that direction because of its future possibilities and the prospects of the field using Firewire as THE BEST POSSIBILITY FOR MUSIC CONNECTIONS, PROTOCOLS AND INTERFACES.

Many music tech heads are finding it difficult to contain their excitement over the incredible possibilities of mLan technology, even those who work for direct competitors to Yamaha. This site is a great place to examine the past, present and future of mLan:
http://www.mlancentral.com/mlan_info/mlan_ppf.php

This site offers a great report on emerging mLan tech at AES:
http://www.01xray.com/home/index.html

The possibility exists that the major music manufacturers may work together to establish a new standard for mLan as they did with MIDI. More info on possible Yamaha/Apple cooperation in this recent link:
http://www.futuremusic.com/news/november2004/mlan.html

As far as head to head speed tests and comparisons ,there are so many examples it seems counterproductive to list them all here, so instead ill offer some links , many reflect test b/w USB 2 and firewire 400 which are very close in speed (480Mb vs 400Mb), the tests show that Firewire is more able and apt to maintain speeds closer to its ideal upper limit(400), and when Firewire800 is considered there really is no comparison:
http://www.barefeats.com/fire34.html (Firewire 800 Kicks Arse!)
http://forum.canopus.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=218793&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
https://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-17483
http://www.g4techtv.com/freshgear/features/39129/USB_20_Versus_FireWire.html
Take the techtv studies with a grain of salt, i think dblissmn said it very well [partially in ref to TECHTV and the like] : "these hacks then go and print stories about how USB is faster than Firewire, which they back up by testing the latest USB 2 product with inferior closeout Firewire products. None of them have ever heard of Oxford 911 and Oxford 922; 911, which is the Firewire 400 version, blows every USB 2 solution right out of the water, but most people whose job it is to know about these things don't know them."
Philly also laid it out very well in the same forum: "In fact, USB 2.0 was just Intel's "me too" attempt at FireWire-- that's the only reason it exists, to say, "Look, we have a fast comm bus just like Apple's!"
Only it's not "just like Apple's":
-FireWire is peer-to-peer so the devices can take care of themselves. USB requires a computer to control/manage the devices. That's Intel, giving you the razor (USB) so they can sell you the blades (CPUs).
-FireWire can do things like charge your iPod while transferring data to it, and you can usually daisy-chain the devices together without a hub. USB needs a rat's nest of AC adapters and cables and hubs, or the computer will start bitching about insufficient power on the bus for all the connected devices.
-USB 2 may have a higher top speed (480Mbps) than FireWire 400, but tests have borne out time and time again that FireWire can sustain data transfers close to its peak speed, where USB2 data transfers only spike that high occasionally.
-FireWire has different physical connectors for its 400Mbps and 800Mbps buses, so you know at a glance what you're dealing with-- most decent manufacturers of FireWire 800 devices will probably include the adapter in the box so they can be used on older machines. USB uses the same connectors for both versions, so there's a high probability you'll hook up your USB 2.0 peripherals in a 1.x USB port or otherwise screw things up so the USB 2 peripherals step down to USB 1.x speeds."
Firewire 400 competed with USB 2.0 in head to head tests in 2003 (and this is by a notoriously PC centric mag "So we ran tests to determine the best interface for many types of peripherals. We timed external hard drives, printers, scanners, DVD burners, and CD-RW drives over both USB 2.0 and FireWire. The results surprised us.
Though USB 2.0 is rated at a higher throughput speed, FireWire delivered faster performance on external hard drives when connected to a desktop."
from PC MAg : www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,844061,00.asp
To make a long post even longer, let me say that i hope the coming year will show Firewire, Mlan, IEEE 1394, etc. to be the best hope for a seamless system that allows the user to integrate all the parts of his or her home studio (Hardware, CPU, VST, Rewire, external rack effects, etc) into one cohesive whole through a central mixer/control device. To truly take advantage of the technology, manufacturers will have to come together and agree on some standards as they did with MIDI so mnay years ago with great results. I hope Apple takes a leadership role in this endeavor, and i think they will have to in order for the standard to succeed. This potential product could be an important first step, in that it offers a firewire audio interface at a very affordable price that can be simply used to allow the user to take advantage of all the possibilties of integrating Garageband and their existing instruments / hardware. i myself, a long time Cubase user have switched over to Logic because im excited about the possibilities Apple could bring to the table with its purchase of Emagic and a new OS and system designed from the start to handle audio and MIDI with ease and quality. I think Firewire has the best chance to be the interface protocol (i'm not a professional and my grasp of exact terms is not the greatest but i hope you know what i mean) that can best take advantage of all the emerging technologies and possibilities available in music technology. If Asteroid is anything close to the artist's renditions (I hope it will include MIDI), it will fill the exact need I have at the moment (low cost firewire interface). I hope the notion that you will be able to daisy-chain the devices to provide more than 2 simultaneous recording channels is in fact correct or that they will also release a more professionally oriented version with the ability to simulateously record at least four channels ,sync with MIDI and provide basic DAW control. if you made it this far in this massive post, congratulate yourself on being a patient creature.

 

[Surreal]

*edit-better stated above*

on the note of the mbox...192

that is all that REALLY has to be said to debunk any claim that usb1.1 is all that great. i know that 192 isnt a standard yet...but the HD series is digidesign...as is the mbox.

firewire isnt doing nearly as well as i ever thought. it is superiour to usb..but that is the problem really; usb is ubiquitious because of keyboards, mice, and external drives. firewire ISNT practical for those...becuase it was always about high bandwidth.

firewire 800 is an audiophiles dream...really...power coming through the cable too? but it isnt incredible feasible to add it to a whole lot of low data peripherials...

if drives were consistently outspinning their bandwidth, firewire would do well..but it is a fix for a problem that hasnt arisen for the masses; lack of bandwith.

i love firewire...not because it is a mac supported platform, because it is effiicient, well thought out and of higher quality than usb.

that said, it is not doing well at all. consumers don't need it. prosumer, and pro users do and i DO hope that pro hardware developers figure that out. firewire shoud do well enough to stay in existence if digidesign, motu, and presonus adopt it...and most ahve.