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Apple Begins Recruiting Engineers in Taiwan for Various Positions

This is just one of the reasons the government needs to seriously get competitive with their business structure. Everything is outrageously more expensive to do in the US. It's not an issue with not being able to find Comparable intellect in the USA, it's that you can find the same thing, for 20% less in Asia, due to the way our government restricts and charges certain things for corporate.
 
SteveJobsLover1 said:
1) Very, very low R&D budget.

2) Tons and tons of worthless design patents like rectangles with rounded corners and page-turning animation that took $0 in R&D.
There are near 0 patents in Apple's portfolio that have anything to do with advanced electrical circuitry. They're 100% design/artistic patents.

It's highly probably that Apple's R&D budget is for buying components from various manufacturers and testing out which components are the best combination.
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Apple do a lot of research on new materials/manufacturing processes/miniaturisation. They design their own chip line (albeit based on ARM designs, which they had an early hand in). And they're on of the few companies still writing their own operating systems (mobile & desktop).

Is that all checklist work?

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It might not just be about the cost/availability of US engineers either. If your manufacturing partners are based in the Pacific Rim, it might make sense to have your own engineers in the same timezone and sharing the same (native) language. Not a necessity, but it can help.
 
whooleytoo said:
Apple do a lot of research on new materials/manufacturing processes/miniaturisation. They design their own chip line (albeit based on ARM designs, which they had an early hand in). And they're on of the few companies still writing their own operating systems (mobile & desktop).

Is that all checklist work?

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It might not just be about the cost/availability of US engineers either. If your manufacturing partners are based in the Pacific Rim, it might make sense to have your own engineers in the same timezone and sharing the same (native) language. Not a necessity, but it can help.
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No, they do not.
R&D in materials and manufacturing processes come from manufacturers, not consumer electronics companies. This misguided notion that Consumer Electronics companies are engineering prowesses needs to stop. I have a feeling this misconception came from American patriots supporting Apple who wanted to believe America is still a technological powerhouse it once was. Stop it. It's just not true.
Manufacturing companies engineer. Consumer electronics companies buy and rebrand. Period.
Their A-processors are basic alteration from the vanilla ARM instructions and designs. All you need is something like libgcm and 20 minutes of your time to configure the circuitry to match the voltages to do what Apple "designs". Designing processors like what Apple is doing isn't hard...

And their OS is a bastardized version of open source FreeBSD. They couldn't even make their own kernel like Microsoft can (I'm using a Mac, btw).
 
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Ok now we know a certain someone is just trolling. And just signed up in August too.
 
Rogifan said:
Ok now we know a certain someone is just trolling. And just signed up in August too.
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I'm not trolling. I'm just amused seeing so many American patriots supporting Apple when Apple engages in activities that American patriots would consider traitorous.
 
SteveJobsLover1 said:
No, they do not.
R&D in materials and manufacturing processes come from manufacturers, not consumer electronics companies. This misguided notion that Consumer Electronics companies are engineering prowesses needs to stop. I have a feeling this misconception came from American patriots supporting Apple who wanted to believe America is still a technological powerhouse it once was. Stop it. It's just not true.
Manufacturing companies engineer. Consumer electronics companies buy and rebrand. Period.
Their A-processors are basic alteration from the vanilla ARM instructions and designs. All you need is something like libgcm and 20 minutes of your time to configure the circuitry to match the voltages to do what Apple "designs". Designing processors like what Apple is doing isn't hard...
Click to expand...

If Apple isn't doing any engineering, why are are they filing patents for things like the fused glass process, or hydrogen fuel cells for mobile use? If designing processors is easy, what exactly qualifies as 'real' engineering? Spaceships?
 
SteveJobsLover1 said:
Apple products - Designed and made by Asians.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt, American patriots. :cool:
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I wonder which computers these patriots use.

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SteveJobsLover1 said:
No, they do not.
R&D in materials and manufacturing processes come from manufacturers, not consumer electronics companies. This misguided notion that Consumer Electronics companies are engineering prowesses needs to stop. I have a feeling this misconception came from American patriots supporting Apple who wanted to believe America is still a technological powerhouse it once was. Stop it. It's just not true.
Manufacturing companies engineer. Consumer electronics companies buy and rebrand. Period.
Their A-processors are basic alteration from the vanilla ARM instructions and designs. All you need is something like libgcm and 20 minutes of your time to configure the circuitry to match the voltages to do what Apple "designs". Designing processors like what Apple is doing isn't hard...

And their OS is a bastardized version of open source FreeBSD. They couldn't even make their own kernel like Microsoft can (I'm using a Mac, btw).
Click to expand...


It makes you happy being this dumb?
If so, good luck!

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SteveJobsLover1 said:
What are you talking about?
Jony Ive isn't an engineer. He's an artist. True, the drawing is done in America, but the high-level engineering is done by Asians in America and Asians overseas. :cool:
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That is stupid.
Care providing names.

USA is a country of immigrants/created by immigrants.
Asians helped create the country.

And i wonder WHY would these so magical/superior creatures from Asia, you wrote about, would work for inferior European descendant CEO of Apple?

Stop being stupid, in respect to this forum.
 
So I assume this is related to Apple's new partner in chip-maker TSMC, but it's highly disappointing to see an American tech company deepen its reliance on foreign countries for its hardware design. We need to make it harder politically for American companies to outsource high-tech jobs like this.

I'll note this is on the same day that Apple is giving out stock dividends (which I will receive). They can keep the money; I want them to spend that money on R&D and building up their American design and manufacturing capabilities. But Tim seems too concerned with pleasing the market.
 
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SteveJobsLover1 said:
No, they do not.
R&D in materials and manufacturing processes come from manufacturers, not consumer electronics companies. This misguided notion that Consumer Electronics companies are engineering prowesses needs to stop. I have a feeling this misconception came from American patriots supporting Apple who wanted to believe America is still a technological powerhouse it once was. Stop it. It's just not true.
Manufacturing companies engineer. Consumer electronics companies buy and rebrand. Period.
Their A-processors are basic alteration from the vanilla ARM instructions and designs. All you need is something like libgcm and 20 minutes of your time to configure the circuitry to match the voltages to do what Apple "designs". Designing processors like what Apple is doing isn't hard...

And their OS is a bastardized version of open source FreeBSD. They couldn't even make their own kernel like Microsoft can (I'm using a Mac, btw).
Click to expand...

That's like saying the Qualcomm processors are generic.

You clearly know nothing about the A processors in iOS devices.
You cannot spend 20 minutes with anything and come up with an ARM derivative that is power efficient.
You need longer than that just to install the ARM configuration tools. I've worked on ARM Processors and fully understand how to configure them along with how the ETM works.

Apple has plenty of patents for real things based on real hardware designs.

I know quite a few people that have worked at Apple doing chip design.
I am an ASIC design engineer. I have been doing chip design for more than 20 years in everything from ECL, BiCMOS and in just about every geometry from 3.5 micron to currently 28nm.

You clearly know nothing about the chip industry because most chip companies don't manufacture chips. AMD doesn't, nVidia doesn't, Marvell doesn't, Qualcomm doesn't, etc... I can list you about 50 or so chip companies that are completely FAB-less.

Also MacOS is not a bastardized open source BSD kernel. FreeBSD dates back to 1993. MacOS or you would be better calling it NeXTStep uses a Mach Kernel developed at CMU. It's a modern kernel architecture and one of the first to support runtime-binding. This dates back to late 1980's.

You should probably learn more about computer history. I owned a NexT machine, which is what MacOSX is based on.

You should also check your references about the kernel that Microsoft developed, they hired , Richard Rashid who worked at CMU as a researcher on Mach. Avie Tevanian was on the Mach research project, then was at NeXT, then Apple.
 
petsounds said:
So I assume this is related to Apple's new partner in chip-maker TSMC, but it's highly disappointing to see an American tech company deepen its reliance on foreign countries for its hardware design. We need to make it harder politically for American companies to outsource high-tech jobs like this.

I'll note this is on the same day that Apple is giving out stock dividends (which I will receive). They can keep the money; I want them to spend that money on R&D and building up their American design and manufacturing capabilities. But Tim seems too concerned with pleasing the market.
Click to expand...

What reliance for hardware design. We are talking TSMC, which doesn't design hardware. They are one of the largest semiconductor fab houses, specifically because they have not and do not have a standard product line. They develop processes, libraries and memories that you can use to make you own custom designs. Apple still designs the processors and major technology here.

Does anyone around here really understand the computer business?
Tech companies have "design centers" all over the world. That doesn not mean they are moving the design capability. A large number of these "design centers" house FAE's (field application engineers) that sole customer issues, supply chain management. In the area of FAB-less companies, you will have packaging and test engineers near where the part is packaged and tested.

Apple uses Samsung in Texas for current processors. They will be using TSMC in Taiwan. It only makes sense to have product, packaging (semiconductor), etc. close to your manufacturing partners in Taiwan and China.

Like I said earlier, nothing new, nothing surprising.
Nothing to see here, move along.
 
iLilana said:
what does this mean to the north american manufacturing?
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I wonder WHAT is SIEMENS ( a German company ) doing, manufacturing and HELPING the USA export?

Siemens headquarters still in Germany, and it is very much a German company, even by having labs all around the world.

Of course Germany cannot afford them with plenty enough of talents.
Look at talents in German firms, you will find allot of non Germans.

Same applies to Apple, Pixar…
 
techwhiz said:
What reliance for hardware design. We are talking TSMC, which doesn't design hardware. They are one of the largest semiconductor fab houses, specifically because they have not and do not have a standard product line. They develop processes, libraries and memories that you can use to make you own custom designs. Apple still designs the processors and major technology here.

Does anyone around here really understand the computer business?
Click to expand...

Apparently no one around here reads, either. I specifically said TSMC was a "chip-maker". And I said reliance on foreign countries for chip design, meaning this new design office Apple is building in TAIWAN, not the US. Meaning Taiwanese jobs, not American jobs. I'll defer to you because you're a chip designer, but it seems to me that geographic proximity is not a big a deal for chip design/fab as it is for say manufacturing and assembly of phones.

I understand the realities the semiconductor manufacturing, but Apple should be partnering with TSMC or someone else to bring a manufacturing plant to America. That's a good first step.
 
i wish these jobs were in UK, it has always been my dream to work with apple.
i wonder why apple's hiring so many people these days
 
I'm not sure if people are just being obtuse but I'm pretty certain when Apple says Designed in California they mean where the product was first conceptualized, not the design of every single piece of technology in the product. And it's a pretty safe bet that all the industrial designs as well as the software engineering is done by employees in the USA.

Also large multi national corporations have employees all over the globe. Should we go after Google and Microsoft for having offices outside the USA? If I live in the UK or Australia and own Apple products do I really care whether those products were made in the USA or whether the engineers who worked on them live in the USA?
 
Cythth said:
I see they posted the equivalent of my job. I wonder how much less they pay. :p
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Ten years ago in India, it was $5K a year salary for a BS in Electrical Engineering, $10k for a Masters, and $15k for a PHD. That's what I was told by an Indian Citizen who was working with us here in Massachusetts, got homesick, and went back to India.
 
petsounds said:
Apparently no one around here reads, either. I specifically said TSMC was a "chip-maker". And I said reliance on foreign countries for chip design, meaning this new design office Apple is building in TAIWAN, not the US. Meaning Taiwanese jobs, not American jobs. I'll defer to you because you're a chip designer, but it seems to me that geographic proximity is not a big a deal for chip design/fab as it is for say manufacturing and assembly of phones.

I understand the realities the semiconductor manufacturing, but Apple should be partnering with TSMC or someone else to bring a manufacturing plant to America. That's a good first step.
Click to expand...

Geographic proximity is not anywhere near relevant in the chip business.
I have designs many a chip and never anywhere near the fab. The fab has design rules, they release or sign off on custom design libraries.

There are companies that design libraries, IP and memories and you buy that stuff to do you r design. By the time you get ready to have it made, the guy that designed it is multiple levels away.

Logic Design -> Synthesis -> Place and Route -> GDS Generation -> Mask Manufacture -> FAB

This is just a simplified flow to show how far away the chip design guy is from the FAB guy.

They partnered with Samsung. The plant is in Texas.
TSMC has existing plants and Apple wants some of that capacity.
A semi plant is a huge investment, with big environmental impact studies.

Even if they wanted to, it would be years before they could partner and build one from the ground up. Most likely they would buy an existing site and upgrade it.
 
SteveJobsLover1 said:
What are you talking about?
Jony Ive isn't an engineer. He's an artist. True, the drawing is done in America, but the high-level engineering is done by Asians in America and Asians overseas. :cool:
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Your eviden for that is what?

And let's just say that the user name you picked is beyond creepy. The man is buried in a grave.

Edit: You made some more posts, and you seem to put a lot of effort into making up convincing sounding nonsense that tries to put Apple into a negative light. But of course there are no facts, just innuendo.
 
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