Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Begins Rejecting Apps for Using the Unique Device Identifier (UDID)
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Unfortunately, another use for the UID is to limit applications. Normally, when you buy an application for the desktop or iOS device, you should be allowed to install that on every device that you own. But some application developers limit features to a certain number of devices, even if you own more, by use of online "activation". I despise when someone tries to do that. Profit is always good, but that's just money grubbing as far as I am concerned.
There are many legitimate uses of UDID (whitelisting, analytics, etc.) that Apple are effectively wiping out here. What they need to do is provide developers with a "per device, per app" identifier which is isolated from other apps, but consistent between installs. A "per install" identifier (UUID) doesn't really work either, as the user could easily restore from a backup to multiple devices. Google's decision on UDID system is quite solid: It changes only after the device is formatted.
It's surprising how many MacRumors members blindly support the decisions Apple carry out, but make no consideration as to the effect it has on app developers, and their time.
It's surprising how many MacRumors members blindly support the decisions Apple carry out, but make no consideration as to the effect it has on app developers, and their time.
I don't care about ads (there's adblock for that) I care about tracking, that's why my droid has a custom hosts file and my mac too (and I don't have google stuff on my droid too).
I don't see any positive uses for the end user.
So using a UAID rather than the UDID, one could imagine a central repository where app developers share UAID data to infer behaviors on pools of people using essentially everthing except uniquely identifying info. Location, motion, usage patterns, app portfolios, perhaps even semi-personal data like age, gender, education, etnnicity, religion and other factors.
The ad folks are all about targeting ads to reduce delivery cost and increase ad effectiveness as compared to other vendors or ad styles. My experience in the past month or two is I am fed ads that are either the exact site and product I already viewed or something very closely related. That might be the sort of targeting that is easy, but it's not the type that's helpful. Too backward leaning.
It needs to say, he liked X so let's show him 3 variants of X in Y, Z and Q or better still and this market strategy does not exist yet on many web sites or ad networks, associated or related products. What should I buy to add value to my Apple TV? To the cable I just bought? To the book or record I ordered. Apple tries to do this with genius, and other sites and ad networks have a hill to climb there.
Rocketman
The ad folks are all about targeting ads to reduce delivery cost and increase ad effectiveness as compared to other vendors or ad styles. My experience in the past month or two is I am fed ads that are either the exact site and product I already viewed or something very closely related. That might be the sort of targeting that is easy, but it's not the type that's helpful. Too backward leaning.
It needs to say, he liked X so let's show him 3 variants of X in Y, Z and Q or better still and this market strategy does not exist yet on many web sites or ad networks, associated or related products. What should I buy to add value to my Apple TV? To the cable I just bought? To the book or record I ordered. Apple tries to do this with genius, and other sites and ad networks have a hill to climb there.
Rocketman
I'd rather use a User Name and Password. Then I can use my wife's iPad to play the game without loosing the scores. The use of UDID by developers is given them way too much control over my specific device. Is none of their business what I do or how I use my iPad.
By the way I never play games with my iPad.
I don't think counter discussion is good for the community. Apple makes decisions for consumers and we then have a duty to support and champion the decision. The arguments are easy to make. Apple is doing this to protect privacy of its users. Apple is the industry leader when it comes to fighting for the protection of its customers. That's why Apple doesn't share private information with those providing ebooks and digital editions of newspapers. End of story.
App developers should not be using UDID without authorization from users. They are developing for the wrong platform if they think this is acceptable. Go develop for Android instead would be my advice.
Well done Apple. This is great news for consumers.
Arn,
You mention a "legitimate" use of UDID several times, the keeping of anonymous high scores for unregistered users. But you don't mention the problem with UDID, and that's the fact that, no matter the "legitimate" use I always stand a risk of a developer who Apple has let into the store snatching my UDID and using it for possible privacy invasiveness.
I buy and play some games on my iOS devices. I never register with Game Center. I never register with any games that have asked for personal information before. I realize the trade-off there is that I don't get to track my high scores against other players. I'm OK with that.
With UDID, however, I don't get to participate in the decision about whether my information can be used by, shared with, or sold to someone else. I won't even go into what happens if I sell my iPhone to another person.
And developers have known this was coming. If they didn't prepare for it, and they lose players' high scores the players should be angry at them, if anyone. I'm a little upset that Apple let this happen to begin with.
I for one am glad they are doing this. I remember when I sold my old iPod touch a long time ago I completely wiped the device restoring from recovery mode thinking it would get rid of everything but it does not.
The person who bought it installed Pandora and it brought up my account. Since then I have refused to use Pandora. If I wipe a device it should be wiped.
The person who bought it installed Pandora and it brought up my account. Since then I have refused to use Pandora. If I wipe a device it should be wiped.
Wow... I had just moved Rogue Vertex Online from using UDID for account logins to Game Center. Good timing on my part.
I still use UDID for push notifications (actually I use APNS, and they use UDID for that...). So, with no warning, I'll have to come up with a new solution for push notifications.
I was also using UDID to help identify cheaters... there were people jailbreaking and using an app called "UDID Faker" to run 20+ RVO accounts from 1 device. After I fixed that, people were able to use Game Center to make multiple accounts, so I used the UDID to identify them (example: 15 accounts logged in on one UDID) and ban them.
I fully admit that I should have designed my online game to be okay with that, but it's basically a turn-based pvp mmo and having control of more than one account gives too huge of an advantage.
But there's an example of, imo, legitimately using UDID. I never shared it with anyone or used it for ads.
I still use UDID for push notifications (actually I use APNS, and they use UDID for that...). So, with no warning, I'll have to come up with a new solution for push notifications.
I was also using UDID to help identify cheaters... there were people jailbreaking and using an app called "UDID Faker" to run 20+ RVO accounts from 1 device. After I fixed that, people were able to use Game Center to make multiple accounts, so I used the UDID to identify them (example: 15 accounts logged in on one UDID) and ban them.
I fully admit that I should have designed my online game to be okay with that, but it's basically a turn-based pvp mmo and having control of more than one account gives too huge of an advantage.
But there's an example of, imo, legitimately using UDID. I never shared it with anyone or used it for ads.
Last edited:
Perhaps. But how long does transitioning from using the UDID to a custom one take? Especially since any update would not even be allowed to access the UDID.
I think this is great. We can only hope it leads to more developers finally waking up to the existance of Game Center (for high scores and achievements) and iCloud (for all user data in every app). The user experience and Apple's hard work are being ruined by lazy devs using systems from years ago when far better solutions exist. How can the platform advance if Apple doesn't pull the plug?
I'm building an app that will require a user to sign in once and my system will remember their device by its UDID. This kind of sets me back, but guys, don't forget that Apple has provided a fake "UDID" that can randomly generated per app. This should help a bunch of the smaller guys (not the big ad networks) but either way it helps a little. Another idea is to use the device's MAC address.
Last edited:
Wow it is startling how idiotic this mindset is. Today is a time when people are starting to wake up to the fact that it isn't mere cookies which track people in their lives.
These device identifiers are similar to other computers. Companies like google remotely spy on people via google voice calls, droid calls, microphones and cameras on their pc/macs. In-q-tel spies on people with key logging software and sends it off to data centers, most likely to the NSA.
Cameras are everywhere with facial recognition with full database with cross referencing to drivers licenses, facebook pics and more. Retina scanners are coming online soon which can scan retinas for pinpoint identification from far away.
Rfid chips in drivers license, passports, credit cards, NFC chips also, can be read from far away.
Cell phone towers track people's every movement. You can be spied on via your gaming consoles, smart fridge, washing machine, electric meter and even your cars on star type device.
Privacy is important. People need to get aware and start advocating a return to privacy rights.
This apple move is a small step in the right direction.
Developers like ARN don't get it. They want no privacy when there are options like game center, facebook logins and much more that allow the users to decide how they "opt in"
People need to kick back against the 1984 agenda
What apps track you across other apps? Is it to determine "If Bob buys Zynga Poker, did he also get other Zynga apps?"?
----------
It's not exactly fanboyism, at least not for everyone. That comment you replied to where someone said that we should accept Apple's decisions could be either. You could either follow them because you are a blind fan, or because you'd rather trust Apple than yourself with what apps you get. I actually like having a regulated App Store so I can be safe there... if I want some sketchy, advanced stuff, I have Cydia.
----------
It's not exactly fanboyism, at least not for everyone. That comment you replied to where someone said that we should accept Apple's decisions could be either. You could either follow them because you are a blind fan, or because you'd rather trust Apple than yourself with what apps you get. I actually like having a regulated App Store so I can be safe there... if I want some sketchy, advanced stuff, I have Cydia.
Why does Apple's developer relations need to suck so bad? Many of even small developers pay 10's of thousands of dollars per year or more to be treated like this?
How about Apple just be upfront with developers about when UDID was to no longer be available so developers knew when the changeover would occur and could plan their business accordingly? There are deprecated functions in the iOS API that have been deprecated since iOS 2/3 but still continue to work. How was a developer to know they needed to prioritize UDID replacement above other business plans without any perspective on when this change might occur?
How about Apple tell developers how the changeover would occur? Who knew they were going to start rejecting app updates for it? They can't work with developers for a time, offering additional warnings of the impending changeover? Upon hearing UDID was deprecated I assumed like other deprecated functions we'd start getting warnings in Xcode, or be forced by Xcode to remove the offending code. Nope, Apple skips straight to rejecting app updates?
And seriously, Apple gave big developers a heads up about this? Why not give all developers a heads up?
How about Apple just be upfront with developers about when UDID was to no longer be available so developers knew when the changeover would occur and could plan their business accordingly? There are deprecated functions in the iOS API that have been deprecated since iOS 2/3 but still continue to work. How was a developer to know they needed to prioritize UDID replacement above other business plans without any perspective on when this change might occur?
How about Apple tell developers how the changeover would occur? Who knew they were going to start rejecting app updates for it? They can't work with developers for a time, offering additional warnings of the impending changeover? Upon hearing UDID was deprecated I assumed like other deprecated functions we'd start getting warnings in Xcode, or be forced by Xcode to remove the offending code. Nope, Apple skips straight to rejecting app updates?
And seriously, Apple gave big developers a heads up about this? Why not give all developers a heads up?
Rejecting apps using Deprecated API's is new
1) Why this really is NEW...
Apple has had deprecated API's for years in the SDK's, but it is new, unprecedented, and "all of a sudden" that apps are being rejected for using those API's. Deprecated means "going away in the future". If Apple wanted developers to stop using their API, then they could simply not offer that API.
2) Why UDID is useful and not evil...
Many games allows the user to purchase in-app upgrades with virtual currency (i.e. coins). If the UDID is allowed to be used by the developer, the those upgrades can survive the app being uninstalled and reinstalled. If the UDID is not used, then user will lose all their purchased upgrades when they uninstall the app and reinstall.
3) Why Game Center is not an answer for today...
Only about 30-40% of iOS users use Game Center. Forcing users to use Game Center is a worse user experience. Also, at that point, why is profiling a user so much worse than tracking a device? If anything, I would think it would be the opposite.
1) Why this really is NEW...
Apple has had deprecated API's for years in the SDK's, but it is new, unprecedented, and "all of a sudden" that apps are being rejected for using those API's. Deprecated means "going away in the future". If Apple wanted developers to stop using their API, then they could simply not offer that API.
2) Why UDID is useful and not evil...
Many games allows the user to purchase in-app upgrades with virtual currency (i.e. coins). If the UDID is allowed to be used by the developer, the those upgrades can survive the app being uninstalled and reinstalled. If the UDID is not used, then user will lose all their purchased upgrades when they uninstall the app and reinstall.
3) Why Game Center is not an answer for today...
Only about 30-40% of iOS users use Game Center. Forcing users to use Game Center is a worse user experience. Also, at that point, why is profiling a user so much worse than tracking a device? If anything, I would think it would be the opposite.
Last edited: