Apple Begins Shipping LG UltraFine 4K Displays

[sofila]

You're so wrong it almost hurts. These monitors are basically a steal, and that's a very good thing, any way you slice it.

The Apple we know it's alive and kicking, just read the first *real* impressions from real pros about the new MBPs: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-grove-carter/one-professionals-look-at_b_12894856.html

This (snarky) kind of reply and the (snarky) other one of yours about Samsung SSD performance in the other topic really sums up your attitude and in-competence, though you placed yourself in the super-human being Olympus. Get back to reality...like your AAPL stock predictions...

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Is it the right business decision? Probably. Is it the right Apple decision? No. The Apple you know is over. They cannot keep thriving and producing double digit growth from where they stand if they try to grow an even larger base of people who pay $1700 for a display. That would be like Ferrari hoping to be Ford.

The current Apple leaders want the company to be Ford. Their focus is gone. They're in a game of me-too technocracy. So there you are.

So true.

The truth is, and so many here do not want to come to grips with it, Apple was always Steve Jobs. From 1985, when Jobs was fired from Apple to 1996 when he rejoined the company, Apple did it's best to ride Job's legacy product. It came out with a laptop version, peripherals like LaserWriter, updated the OS several times with some neat enhancements like Quicktime. But any truly new products like Newton and Pippin, were lackluster to outright dogs. Apple sans Jobs could not diversify outside the Mac legacy box and eventually they couldn't even expand the Mac box as it stumbled with the Copeland OS project -- and the reason Jobs was brought back because his NeXT OS was the best savior for the platform.

So Jobs comes back, pushes the company beyond Mac. Then he passes and it's deja vu all over again execpt now Apple can't get itself out of the expanded produce lineup box Jobs left behind. It's doing everything Scully and Amelio and Spindler did. Isn't the definition of insane repeating something and expecting a different result?

I'm married to Apple products I think, even still. But the thrill is gone. It's more like I'm old and want security of familarity now. But Apple products have gotten both dumbed down and harder to use. Apple has designed them to be gravy trains without considering customer convenience or ease of use. That was not Job's product ethos. This is not Job's Apple.

 

[irishgrizzly]

I've followed Apple for 18 years, and I know one thing, Steve would have never done this.

Got to agree, he would rather delay for a year then ship something ugly and underwhelming.

 

[theluggage]

If I remember right I read somewhere that Touch Bar is connected via USB internally.

That doesn't mean it is using the full bandwidth of USB. If you can browse the web and listen to music over bluetooth I don't see why a touch bar shouldn't work.

Alternative TB3 monitors will probably be available from other manufacturers soon. BUT they may not have the proprietary internal circuitry from Apple that enables 5k via SST, and bi-directional user-controls etc.

Is the LG display using 5k over SST? Don't think so: my understanding was that 5k over TB3 used both of TB3s DisplayPort 1.2 channels much like Dell's 5k display used two DisplayPort cables. The limitation being that neither TB3 nor the Intel Skylake GPUs support DisplayPort 1.3. AFAIK the 5k-over-SST thing is a proprietary internal connection buried inside the iMac.

Also, there are VESA standards for controlling brightness/contrast etc. from the computer.

I'm hoping it also means DisplayPort daisychaining will work with it, (daisychaining only works with Apple's own Thunderbolt displays) but I'm not optimisitic.

You can't daisychain 5k displays - 1 x 5k uses up both DisplayPort 1.2 channels on a TB connection and even a hypothetical DisplayPort-1.3-over-USB-C link needs all 4 of USB-C's high-speed pairs for 5k.

...and on a USB-C monitor, like the LG 4k one, I don't think you can daisychain 4k displays @ 60Hz with DisplayPort 1.2.

So why not just reduce the price of an Apple-branded and designed monitor produced by LG instead of trying to wallet rape the consumer?

I can't shake off the impression that these LG monitors started off that way, but that the project was axed. Look at the choice and placement of connectors - no DisplayPort or HDMI inputs as you find on most 3rd-party displays, no USB-A out (USB-C is the future, stay on message!) and look where they are placed. Look at the "hump" on the back (remind you of the iMac/TBD, but without the curves, at all?) The odd "forehead" (I've now realised, that's where the webcam is) - goes away if you stick a continuous sheet of glass over the front. To me, this has all the hallmarks of an Apple-designed display sans the high-end machine aluminium casing.

Meanwhile, here's LG's own idea of what a USB-C display looks like:

http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UD88-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor

Apple's reasoning is this: You don't need to connect your laptop to a monitor when its content is likely synced to the cloud. They expect you to use an iMac when you're not traveling.

...and that's Apple's problem: second-guessing how people should use their computers and risking driving anybody who differs away from the platform. OK, Jobs did that a lot but he was rather good at getting it right (he didn't always) and actually understood the PC industry. Thing is, Microsoft can decide that they're going to throw everything at a couple of niches: laptop/tablet convertibles and $3k artist's easels, but if that doesn't float your boat you can walk away, buy a brick-thick desktop-replacement laptop or build a desktop system from components and stay on the Windows platform. The danger for Apple is that they'll laser-focus on the short-term profitable business of executive ultra-thin laptops but, without diversity in the user base, the platform will stagnate in the long term.

 

[burgman]

Since I can only hit the Like button once on your post, I'll say it here: Like x1000.

Funny here I am wishing Macrumors had a **** button. To be used just for posts where anybody claims to remotely have a clue what Jobs would have done. Get over the cartoon image you have created of him. Will that happen? Of course not.

 

[rawdawg]

people who pay $1700 for a display

I'm confused.. There's under $1000. Are you talking about for two displays?
[doublepost=1479052904][/doublepost]Regarding the Thunderbolt connection with the 5k display vs the USB-C connection with the 4k display, can someone tell me how they were be different for the user? In what was does the thunderbolt connection offer more? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

 

[the-msa]

Wondering how many of haters here writing this display off as ugly have a super gorgeous thunderbolt display? How beautifully it's design and height fit the imacs is perfect!

/s

 

[The Traveler]

https://www.monitornerds.com/lg-ultrafine-4k-display-review/

 

[Cougarcat]

https://www.monitornerds.com/lg-ultrafine-4k-display-review/

"Every new monitor is a new adventure."

 

[KPOM]

The first justification I have seen on this thread is the commodity nature of monitors. I would say Apple has never made a commodity monitor. It is able to charge a premium for the look and feel, and people for which such things are important would buy them. I know I would. As it is, I might as well use my current monitor with a dongle and wait for other commodity monitor producers to produce a similar spec monitor at at a much lower price, because this casing looks just like every other commodity monitor, so why pay a premium?

The second justification in reply to "Steve would never have done this" trope is to cite the Motorola Rokr 1. Leaving aside that the comparison with the old Motorola phone reveals exactly why Apple appears to have not learned the rokr lesson and should not have done this, I actually hope this is a Rokr 1 analogue. It was made because Apple wasn't ready to release the iPhone. It could mean that Apple isn't ready with its new monitor, and these are a stop gap. Maybe the real Apple designed monitor will be released alongside the new Mac Pro.

Or maybe there won't be a new Mac Pro or a new Apple designed monitor. The old Apple that inspired loyalty not seen elsewhere in the IT industry with its excellence and coherence in design and performance philosophy has been taken over by puppet masters.

As I recall the XServe was dropped during the Steve Jobs era. Likewise I'm guessing the Thunderbolt Display didn't sell well enough when it was new to justify an update.

 

[LDN]

Girl, are you an LG display, because you're ultra fine.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Funny here I am wishing Macrumors had a **** button. To be used just for posts where anybody claims to remotely have a clue what Jobs would have done. Get over the cartoon image you have created of him. Will that happen? Of course not.

Sorry, but Steve Jobs brought an enormous amount to Apple and he brought a definitive style. It's fair game to discuss the changes that have taken place at Apple since his passing.

 

[Fangio]

I've followed Apple for 18 years, and I know one thing, Steve would have never done this.

Can't even imagine Jony Ive would have let this pass through. Obviously his power at Apple is way more limited than I thought.

 

[potatis]

So, about usb-c, too bad they couldn't do it easier to plug-out as well as plug-in. Having to "eject" from Finder seems so...archaic. Could've been a DisplayPort plug style release-button to do the job, I don't know. On my old Cinema Display, even the usb stick sitting next to the one I want to eject gets ejected (with error message) when I pull out the ejected one. Would unplugging the usb-c connector from macbooks wrongfully eject any usb sticks sitting in the back of this screen? Can imagine it would behave like the old Thunderbolt display which had usb+displayport in the same cable.

 

[MadeMyDay]

Limited to with what you can connect this display.

LG UltraFine 5K Display
System Requirements
Operating System: macOS Sierra 10.12.1 or later
Connection: Thunderbolt 3–enabled Mac

 

[happydude]

what worries me is if apple is no longer making displays...does this mean the iMac as we know it is dead? i always assumed their display lineup was just an iMac without the mac hardware. or an iMac was a display with the computer components attached. either way...if Apple isn't looking at display manufacturing, are they out of the iMac biz? since they didn't release and there haven't been substantial rumors of a new one, are we iMac waiters SOL? just waiting for an LG display coupled with a mac mini as solution for example?

 

[Cougarcat]

what worries me is if apple is no longer making displays...does this mean the iMac as we know it is dead? i always assumed their display lineup was just an iMac without the mac hardware. or an iMac was a display with the computer components attached. either way...if Apple isn't looking at display manufacturing, are they out of the iMac biz? since they didn't release and there haven't been substantial rumors of a new one, are we iMac waiters SOL? just waiting for an LG display coupled with a mac mini as solution for example?

Apple doesn't make their own panels. The ones in iMacs are the same LG panels that are in these displays.

If anything, this bodes ill for the Mini and Mac Pro, not the iMac.

 

[rtdunham]

Waiting for them to let me pre-order a 5k.

Cancelled my ordered 4K last nite so I can wait to order a 5K.

I'd wondered whether the 25% discount might run out before the 5Ks can be ordered. Apple support told me last night it's a price reduction, not a discount, and the 5Ks will be available at the reduced price when they go on sale.

 

[Black Belt]

You might need a standalone monitor if there were such things as standalone desktop Macs. Yes Tim, looking right at you when I say this.

 

[deconstruct60]

....]Regarding the Thunderbolt connection with the 5k display vs the USB-C connection with the 4k display, can someone tell me how they were be different for the user? In what was does the thunderbolt connection offer more? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

What can Thunderbolt do that USB-C can't? 5K on one cable. A USB-C connector in DisplayPort Alternative mode pragmatically cannot do 5K on one cable ( theoretically there will be DP v1.3-1.3 systems and monitors later, but even if you could get your hands on one of the first that is "1.3 ready" (and upgrade later) there are none of the second at this point. Certainly not either of these two LG monitors).

If you look at the specs of the LG 5K you will see that it has USB 3.0 downstream ports. The 4K model as only USB 2.0 speed ports ( a Physical Type C connector but only USB 2.0 speed). All the high speed lanes are being used solely for DP data traffic so only have USB 2.0 left.

Thunderbolt encodes DP streams and PCIe into a Thunderbolt data stream that can carry both. The 5K monitor can receive two DP v1.2 streams and enough PCIe bandwidth to run a full USB 3.0 controller to provision the USB connection. "Regular" USB-C modes cannot do that.

If only want to hookup up keyboard and mouse to the monitor then USB 2.0 versus 3.0 makes no difference. Attaching a storage drive would show substantively different bandwidth.
[doublepost=1479118880][/doublepost]

You might need a standalone monitor if there were such things as standalone desktop Macs. Yes Tim, looking right at you when I say this.

You might want an Apple monitor but there is no intrinsic or technical need for an Apple monitor any more than there is a need for an Apple printer.

Apple hasn't introduced a true standalone monitors since 2004. Haven't sold one since 2010. They have sold docking stations that happened to have an integrated monitor, but pure standalone, desktop targeted monitor. It has been 6-12 years. They have been in the mode a long time. ( Yes, it was and is a Steve thing not a Tim thing. )

 

[MarsViolet]

As I recall the XServe was dropped during the Steve Jobs era. Likewise I'm guessing the Thunderbolt Display didn't sell well enough when it was new to justify an update.

That's bound to happen when the products Apple wants to sell you come increasingly with a built-in screen.

The Thunderbolt Display's assumed poor sales had nothing to do with its price or performance relative to other displays on the market. Selling lesser tech prettied up for a premium is how Apple rolls. Their customers just didn't need the thing.

 

[Ranste]

All Apple need to do is take a 27" iMac, strip out everything apart from the screen components, reconfigure the ports (if necessary) and sell it for $800. The fact they aren't doing that, and are promoting and selling third party displays is a worry.

 

[theluggage]

Wondering how many of haters here writing this display off as ugly have a super gorgeous thunderbolt display?

Actually, the fugly-looking telescopic stand on the LG is probably a great improvement - in functionality terms - over the TBD/iMac's very limited adjustability. I think that what people mainly wanted is a metal-and-glass housing.

 

[MarsViolet]

All Apple need to do is take a 27" iMac, strip out everything apart from the screen components, reconfigure the ports (if necessary) and sell it for $800. The fact they aren't doing that, and are promoting and selling third party displays is a worry.

It's a worry if you want a Mac without a built-in screen. That's where Apple is headed. I'm expecting one last revision to the Mac Pro — primarily to give it Thunderbolt 3 and maybe a speed and GPU bump — and then Apple will ignore it for another three years and then quietly discontinue it. I'm not expecting any more Mac Mini updates, but I guess it could also get Thunderbolt 3 before Apple pulls the plug. Either way, the future for Macs is probably built-in screens.
[doublepost=1479120839][/doublepost]

Actually, the fugly-looking telescopic stand on the LG is probably a great improvement - in functionality terms - over the TBD/iMac's very limited adjustability. I think that what people mainly wanted is a metal-and-glass housing.

Maybe Apple should farm out Mac production to a third party too. We'd get square plastic boxes which can be opened and updated easily — a great improvement in functionality terms over current glued-together Macs with soldered RAM and storage. . . .
[doublepost=1479121128][/doublepost]

Got to agree, he would rather delay for a year then ship something ugly and underwhelming.

Nope. Steve's attitude was “Real artists ship.” Do you have any examples to share?

 

[theluggage]

All Apple need to do is take a 27" iMac

Not quite that simple... the 5k iMac uses a custom interface between computer and screen, an external 5k display has to use TB3 so the electronics would be quite different. Also, the iMac enclosure is unnecessarily large for a display (including the "chin") so it would still look like a bit of a kludge.

I think the real reason is that the tooling-up for making those lovely machined-aluminium enclosures is expensive and Apple don't think they're going to sell enough of these to cover the costs. As I said in the previous post - the LG UltraFine does resemble Apple-designed innards in a cheap LG box.

I do wonder about what this says for the iMac, but bear in mind that Apple effectively got out of the stand-alone display business years ago when they didn't update the TBD, and since then have probably just been selling existing stock. The iMac has seen several updates in that period.