sdf
macrumors 6502a
No, Facebook is trying to use the App Store as a platform to rail against the App Store. It's like trying to get Walmart to stock your WALMART SUCKS ASS T-shirt.
Apple Blocked Facebook Update Highlighting Apple's In-App Purchase Fees
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No, Facebook is trying to use the App Store as a platform to rail against the App Store. It's like trying to get Walmart to stock your WALMART SUCKS ASS T-shirt.
There was much more going on that simple integration of IE into the OS. Microsoft was controlling which software manufacturers could preinstall in order to disadvantage competitors (edit: by threatening to withhold Windows licenses). The situation is quite different with Apple since they've created the entire platform from the ground up. If they start denying apps because they appear on other platforms that might be a problem (although that's for the courts to decide.) Apple doesn't even prevent developers from having alternative payment schemes outside the App store, just from advertising within the store. (See Netflix for example.) The two situations really aren't all that similar.
sparkinstx
macrumors 6502a
Remember Apple's "1984" commercial? Now, Apple is the one on the giant screen.
rumz
macrumors 65816
I’m not really interested in defending Apple. I am curious, however, how anyone can determine what is excessive and what is not? Do you have any insight into how much it costs to develop, maintain, and grow the platform is? Is all profit evil? Or how much profit is ok and at what point is it “greedy”? (I am not saying I have these answers, but I’m saying I have a lot of questions that I would need answered to before pretending to judge whether something is excessive or not.)I think what's happening is that this expanding insight in how the tech industry charges fees for running online store that are just digital transactions that can be compared to a credit card processing fee of 3% is making every business using the same tactic look bad.
You guys trying to defend Apple now are in turn defending the whole tech industry practice of excessive commissions on just a in storer transaction.
It was ignored, buried for the longest time, nobody considered it evil, but now even though Apple has done it best to say this is how we always has done it, is now looked at by a lot more people as excessive as it becomes visible. Whether it can remain for the long term is really why all of us are talking about this in almost daily topics created in this forum.
I, for one, will not pretend to know just what percentage is sustainable or fair. I won’t even suggest that I can comprehend all of the people, resources, money, time, research, development, etc. that goes into:
- making it possible for the physical device in your hand to exist
- the software to make it do anything
- the services and systems that the platform relies on
- making it possible for apps to be developed and run on a given platform
- and all this to make it possible for a third party to leverage the platform to generate income.
Analog Kid
macrumors G3
Yeah, it’s not quite that though. Here, it’s simply an accounting for where the money is going.
I’m not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, it seems fair to let the user know where their money is going and it’s not like the 30% is some kind of secret. On the other, I can understand Apple resisting efforts to use it’s own platform to criticize it or to drive traffic away from the AppStore (In your analogy, putting tags on the shirts at Walmart saying the same product is cheaper at Target).
Two things I do know is that this information isn’t “irrelevant”, and it’s a bad look for Apple to to try to hide something if they aren’t doing anything wrong.
If a transaction is allowed to show what the local sales tax rate is, for example, then it should be able to show what the Apple tax is. At the same time, motiviations start to become suspect if you‘re selectively transparent about what fees are and are not disclosed. Showing the Apple fee but not sales tax, for example, sounds like it’s meant to carry a message.
And, of course, it will be interesting to see whether Facebook continues to be so transparent when they start charging fees again themselves.
The_Gream
macrumors 6502
It seems so odd that the behavior of these companies is so childish, they would rather take it to Apple by violating the TOS, when they could just decide to stop supporting iOS altogether.
How hard would it be for them to just say, “We would like to understand why Apple feels that they should take a 30% cut of all digital purchases made on iOS apps? Please provide us with the transparency so we can understand, and help bring ideas to make iOS better. Until we have said transparency, we will no longer support iOS app development.”
it could just be nice if they would grow up and act like mature human beings.
How hard would it be for them to just say, “We would like to understand why Apple feels that they should take a 30% cut of all digital purchases made on iOS apps? Please provide us with the transparency so we can understand, and help bring ideas to make iOS better. Until we have said transparency, we will no longer support iOS app development.”
it could just be nice if they would grow up and act like mature human beings.
atomic.flip
macrumors 6502a
Well please give me a moment to shed some tears for them. LOL
Facebook has been guilty of EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!!! You can’t promote a post that references anything about subscribing to a page by selecting the buried “follow” option under the like button at the top.
As an entrepreneur dumping hundreds of thousands in one year advertising with Facebook this was a huge slap in the face and a blatantly anticompetitive practice. (They were trying to become a singular news source and to curate that content.)
So now a bigger fish finally has kicked them in the you know what. 🤦
Facebook has been guilty of EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!!! You can’t promote a post that references anything about subscribing to a page by selecting the buried “follow” option under the like button at the top.
As an entrepreneur dumping hundreds of thousands in one year advertising with Facebook this was a huge slap in the face and a blatantly anticompetitive practice. (They were trying to become a singular news source and to curate that content.)
So now a bigger fish finally has kicked them in the you know what. 🤦
falainber
macrumors 68040
As the judge in the Epic lawsuit already pointed out, there is no way to determine if the fees are excessive or not in absence of competition. The judge might be hinting to Apple that alternative app stores are coming. If this happens, Apple is free to demand 90% fee. Nobody would care, people would simply switch to alternative app store(s)
mi7chy
Suspended
Helps to read the article. This isn't about Facebook. It's about Apple stealing 30% from self employed and small businesses trying to survive COVID-19.
jonblatho
macrumors 68030
Subscriptions in the second and subsequent years only. All paid app purchases and non-subscription IAP items have the 30% commission.
rumz
macrumors 65816
I don’t really see the “App Store monopoly” argument. You want a different App Store, you buy a different device, use a different OS. Just my opinion— I don’t believe the “guests” on that platform should get to dictate how that platform is run, they are not the ones making it possible. Use it or do not use it.
Therein lies the challenge. It is extraordinarily difficult to create a successful new hardware/software platform in today’s landscape. I am a reluctant iOS user... I wish webOS had not failed.
It's hard to be rational when one uses emotive terms.
m11rphy
macrumors 6502a
Apple isn't stealing from anyone, COVID 19 has nothing to do with it, should the government stop taking tax from these business because of Covid19 or should the electric or gas companies stop charging them? Apple donates millions every year they cant subsidise the whole world
Its also very interesting this app update and leak to the press of its rejection happen a day after FB has said apples new anti tracking feature in iOS14 will harm its ad revenue on the platform up to 50%
Facebook Says Apple's iOS 14 Anti-Tracking Features Will Cut 50% of its Audience Network Ad Revenue
Facebook today warned advertisers that Apple's upcoming anti-tracking tools could cause a more than 50 percent drop in Audience Network publisher...
www.macrumors.com
It should be up to the store owner to decide this.
Would you really go to a super market where all the items had a long list of whom got what?
Apple is the store owner and should decide. Very few store owners who make great profits would like the customers to know this.
As a customer I don't care and don't want to know.
Ah yes, people deciding what actual taste is. I don't play Fortnite and don't use Facebook so your fanaticism wouldn't get to me, but your approach this absurd. And I think you know it.
How do you know?
How about clothing stores? Would they like that the factory in Bangladesh puts on they get $1 and they sell it to you for $50?
AZREOSpecialist
Suspended
In the example shown, it goes to Jasper's Market. Facebook doesn't take a cut, but Apple takes 30% of the money going to a local business. Does this change your mind at all?
Apple will not survive this storm as other tech companies side against them. What Facebook did should not have violated any app store policies; what is considered "irrelevant" is extremely subjective. Why is Apple trying so hard to hide its 30% cut? Because it knows that it would be condemned in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately, I don't think any court in this country would side with Apple censoring in-app information about Apple's 30% cut.
falainber
macrumors 68040
You are forgetting that iOS devices belong to their owners not to the "platform".
mi7chy
Suspended
Apple is not only stealing from self employed and small businesses but also from Facebook which is providing the app and platform to conduct business without fee due to COVID-19. The people's champion, Apple, should match Facebook's zero fee or at most a reasonable credit card processing fee which is typically <3% but 30% for doing nothing is thievery. There are laws against price gouging during a pandemic and Apple is clearly in violation.
https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/pricegougingduringdisasters
alfonsog
macrumors 6502a
Does Facebook/Instagram need the apps store/iPhones or does Apple need these apps to sell iPhones. From the WeChat thing it seems Apple needs that app to keep any of the Chinese market. I think most of my friends would switch to android if instagram and Facebook apps were pulled/not updated anymore. Apple needs to stop and adjust their policies and fees before they lose everything which would happen fast since iPhone is so much of their revenue. Just the negative publicity is costing them a lot. The privacy advantage of iPhone is nearly irrelevant no one believes it is true (even though it is.)
itr81
macrumors regular
Zuckerberg can say whatever he wants, but Apple isn’t selling your data to the highest bidder and this includes the US government. Zuckerberg is also reason for the whole TikTok fiasco, he always throws someone under the bus, when he’s on the losing end. Either way, my FB account hasn’t been active for 5 year’s, I kinda wonder how many inactive/abandoned accounts are now on FB. Back in 2012, it was around 70%. Just remember 99% of their revenue comes from AD rev req.