Apple Blocks iTorrent App From EU Alternative App Marketplace

[canadianreader]

Torrent helps people to steal things.

Screw them.

If it can be used for legal downloads then it should stay. Pirated content can be accessed through a browser doesn’t mean you ban the browser from the App Store. The problem here is most tech companies with the help of governments use extreme cases to exert their power and normalize control and censorship. When you buy a phone you own it and you have the right to download and install any app you want just like a computer.

 

[klasma]

Torrenting can be used legally, but let's get real here, in the vast majority of cases it isn't used legally.

I’m pretty sure VPNs also aren’t used for legal purposes by a majority. Should Apple ban those too? Where do you draw the line? The point is that it shouldn’t be Apple’s business what you do on your device.

 

[iamgalt]

A downloaded/torrented media file does not equate a lost sale/licensing transactions.
Even assuming someone torrents a media file that he or she would have otherwise bought, it's not stolen.

Stealing is taking away something of value from someone else.
Preventing someone from making a sale isn't stealing.

But there actually are plenty of legitimate reasons to torrent.
You can compare that to guns: a considerable share of gun use is illegal - yet they're legal devices in many countries.

Intellectual property theft - Theft of material that is copyrighted, the theft of trade secrets, and trademark violation.

 

[AppliedMicro]

You still stole the experience of consuming it

Consumption, the act of consuming something is not.
It's never illegal, even if I didn't pay for it.

Have you ever wondered why the quality and variety of music today is lower than twenty years ago? It's because, for many musicians, making music is no longer financially sustaining

I very much disagree.
There's a complex but limited (cor)relation between artistic quality and commercial success.

Online streaming and online distribution has (if you will) "democratised" music. It has allowed smaller, more "niche" creators and artists to distribute their content, free from the gatekeeping power of commercial music distributors.

The variety has never been greater.

Commercial success or "making a sustained living" from music on the other hand does not equate artistic merit. Much of the (I personally consider) "best" music I've heard recently was from my part-time or hobbyist artists.

Has "mainstream" music deteriorated in average quality? I'd tentatively agree - but so (likely) did previous generations.

 

[klasma]

No. Think it through. An app delivering illegal content ( very bad porn etc.) does not become OK just because it was installed via through a 3rd party App Store. The third party app store in question hasn't been blocked. The torrenting app has.

Safari also delivers illegal content.

 

[iamgalt]

I can go on the street and put up signs saying "don't buy from iamgalt".
I can do the same online.

It may be reducing or preventing sales for you - but it's certainly not stealing.

It's intellectual property theft. Again, justify it however you need to to live with yourself.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Intellectual property theft - Theft of material that is copyrighted, the theft of trade secrets, and trademark violation.

No, it's not.. that's a colloquial or descriptive phrase that legally means nothing...people use it to refer to violations of intellectual property rights. Legally, such acts are usually classified under specific laws like copyright infringement, patent infringement, trademark infringement, trade secret misappropriation, etc.

Theft is a legal term that means depriving someone of their property, as in they no longer have it or have access to it. A copy doesn't deprive the owner of the creation. That doesn't mean it's ethical, legal, or right. It's just what it is, which is NOT theft.

Anyway, AGAIN, why is Apple removing this App that is a) not in their store, and b) not a violation of any law, anywhere.

 

[iFelix18]

Great news. Zero tolerance for piracy.

 

[Selena Agna]

Typical Tim Cook Apple. Malicious compliance whenever they think they can get away with it.

After a lot of gnashing of teeth they allow people in certain regions to download software from outside the app store, after jumping through several hoops, making the whole process as uncomfortable as possible (because Tim's service revenue is in danger!).

But the still have a kill switch for whenever they feel like it.

You pay hundreds of bucks for these phones and are still not allowed to use whatever software you want.

 

[canadianreader]

Let’s hope Apple gives a reason why. With today’s “streaming” services, the people who actually pay for their movies, don’t own the movies itself, just to license to watch them, and the license can be revoked at any time.
Lots of people in her advising that companies are okay in doing to, y’all sit on the toilet to pee.
If paying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing.

Even when you buy a movie online it can be deleted from your content library you're basically buying a licence to watch the movie anytime you want until they decide to pull it from your library.

PlayStation Is Deleting TV Shows Players Paid For Thanks To Warner Bros.

Sony is deleting shows that you may have paid for through the PlayStation Store thanks to a crumbling deal with Warner Bros.

www.forbes.com

 

[AppliedMicro]

It's intellectual property theft. Again, justify it however you need to to live with yourself.

Since torrenters don't take it away from anyone, it's not theft.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Great news. Zero tolerance for piracy.

A torrent app is not piracy just like my Remington shotgun isn't a murder weapon.

Additionally, this even Apple's App store and they should have no say-so what happens there. Walmart doesn't get to pull items from Target's shelves..this is no different.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Would you be alright with Apple blocking browsers from downloading certain kinds of software on a Mac?

I’d be fine with that, I use an iPad.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

What? That's what notarization is for. When a build of an app is found to be malicious, the notarization ticket is revoked and the users can no longer run the app.

And the EU regulators specifically left in that option because what they DON’T want to happen is for iOS profit share to drop because people find it easier to sideload (as they do on Android). They leave Apple in the middle to avoid killing the golden goose.

 

[Happy_John]

I’m pretty sure VPNs also aren’t used for legal purposes by a majority. Should Apple ban those too? Where do you draw the line? The point is that it shouldn’t be Apple’s business what you do on your device.

No, and again, I never said it was good that Apple has blocked this app. I said it was a "no brainer", which it is.

At this point, the thread has moved away from that topic though, and is more about piracy in general.

On that point, as a content producer of sorts, piracy is theft. I put time and effort, as well as hardware and electricity, do produce content. I do not make this content for free, I sell it.

Someone who pirates my content is using my content without =my consent and without having paid me for it.

The people arguing for piracy not being theft very obviously have not been at the receiving end of having their content pirated, and losing income, income that is needed to keep producing content.

Without appeal to people's better natures ( never a wise move on the internet), if people don't pay for things, there will be less and less new things.

To be perfectly honest, I find any of the arguments on here apologizing for piracy to be an argument your would hear from a spoilt child who assumes everything is free because their parents pay for everything. It is incredibly over-entitled.

The "Torrent can be used for other things than piracy" is an equally empty argument. It can, but it is a fact that torrent is the main means of piracy. Not acknowledging that is idiotic. And yes, it is the same for VPNs.

So, back to your comment (sorry for the long-windedness), should VPNs be banned? No. Are they often used for illegal activities. Of course.

Is it surprising that Apple has stamped on a torrent app? No. Will the EU rise up to defend the poor victimized app? Highly unlikely. As one of the more sensible comments stated, could Apple be complicit in a promoting piracy by allowing a torrent app to remain available for iOS - I don't know, but I am sure Apple does not want to have to find out.

The notarization issue is a double-edged sword for Apple - it gives them power, but it can be argued means they take responsibility for content and apps available on third party stories as well as their own store. If Apple allowed open, untethered "side loading" on iOS, this would not be an issue, but they don't. They do on MacOS, hence it is not an issue, because they have no responsibility.

Is this fair? Probably not, but "fair" is not usually a given.

But now's a moment to step away from the desk, get some air, look at some stuff that isn[t composed of pixels, so I'll let the debate continue without me.

It's not as if it's a debate that going to be settled anytime soon.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Don't care about this app in particular, but it's interesting to find out that Apple still can disapprove something in the alt stores.

I thought the whole point was that you'd be freer to distribute whatever stuff one likes to.

It’s been a part of the DMA from the beginning. They left the option in for Apple to run the stores because that’s what they wanted to happen. If they didn’t they could have very easily forbidden it.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

No, and again, I never said it was good that Apple has blocked this app. I said it was a "no brainer", which it is.

At this point, the thread has moved away from that topic though, and is more about piracy in general.

On that point, as a content producer of sorts, piracy is theft. I put time and effort, as well as hardware and electricity, do produce content. I do not make this content for free, I sell it.

Someone who pirates my content is using my content without =my consent and without having paid me for it.

The people arguing for piracy not being theft very obviously have not been at the receiving end of having their content pirated, and losing income, income that is needed to keep producing content.

Without appeal to people's better natures ( never a wise move on the internet), if people don't pay for things, there will be less and less new things.

To be perfectly honest, I find any of the arguments on here apologizing for piracy to be an argument your would hear from a spoilt child who assumes everything is free because their parents pay for everything. It is incredibly over-entitled.

But no's a moment to step away from the desk, get some air, look at some stuff that isn[t composed of pixels, so I'll let the debate continue without me.

It's not as if it's a debate that going to be settled anytime soon.

I don't know why you keep sticking to this, it's not a debate, it's written law and I can share the specific statutes with you if you would like. Show up a a court case involving piracy and see what phrases and terms they use. Theft won't be one of them, because it's not.

You can keep calling it that, but it doesn't make it so. It doesn't mean it's acceptable, ethical or legal or right, but theft it is not.

 

[iamgalt]

No, it's not.. that's a colloquial or descriptive phrase that legally means nothing...people use it to refer to violations of intellectual property rights. Legally, such acts are usually classified under specific laws like copyright infringement, patent infringement, trademark infringement, trade secret misappropriation, etc.

Theft is a legal term that means depriving someone of their property, as in they no longer have it or have access to it. A copy doesn't deprive the owner of the creation. That doesn't mean it's ethical, legal, or right. It's just what it is, which is NOT theft.

Anyway, AGAIN, why is Apple removing this App that is a) not in their store, and b) not a violation of any law, anywhere.

The legal term theft is a very broad term. That's why there are multiple terms to hone in on the specific type of theft. There's robbery, embezzlement, burglary, identity theft, intellectual property theft, grand theft, grand theft auto. All forms of theft, legally speaking. If someone steals your identity, you still have it, you don't stop being you, but it is theft. And if you take a copy of a song without paying the creator their royalties, yes, they still have the content, but you got it by not paying the copyright owner. It is theft. That's why it's intellectual property theft. It's not dealing with physical items like cars, or jewelry. Walking into a bookstore and scanning in a book and walking out is theft, even though the bookstore still has the book.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

The legal term theft is a very broad term. That's why there are multiple terms to hone in on the specific type of theft. There's robbery, embezzlement, burglary, identity theft, intellectual property theft, grand theft, grand theft auto. All forms of theft, legally speaking. If someone steals your identity, you still have it, you don't stop being you, but it is theft. And if you take a copy of a song without paying the creator their royalties, yes, they still have the content, but you got it by not paying the copyright owner. It is theft. That's why it's intellectual property theft. It's not dealing with physical items like cars, or jewelry. Walking into a bookstore and scanning in a book and walking out is theft, even though the bookstore still has the book.

Intellectual property theft is a colloquial term, not a legal term. It does not exist in the legal system.

Theft legally means something very specific. YOU can use it that way, and that's fine, but that's your definition, and it won't fly in any court.

I'm not debating piracy because I DO NOT CARE about piracy. It's not an interest of mine, or a concern, or even on my radar.

The point is, AGAIN, that this App isn't piracy, it's not illegal, and Apple shouldn't be putting their fingers in any companies App store. Walmart doesn't get to pull products from Target's shelves, and Apple shouldn't be pulling Apps from another App store.

 

[Bokito]

It’s certainly possible that Apple blocked the App for a valid reason or that it was flagged by accident, but their lack of communication could seriously hurt business. Why is it after all these years that Apple still doesn’t communicate with developers or other people in the Apple community? You would think that after the iPhone battery scandal they improved their communication, but it’s just business.

Shareholders should definitely get this point to the next shareholder meeting, because the fines from not communicating hurts their wallet.

 

[russell_314]

They might do, but not in the way you might like.

The EU is not fond of piracy.

A lot of the less restrictions on software crowd love the EU for kicking Apple in the balls occasionally, but I don’t think they’re your friends this time. The EU isn’t going to promote piracy

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I haven't downloaded a torrent in 15 years, so I have no dog in the fight...but reading up on this, the developer has no idea why it was removed and Apple isn't sharing.

Apple should get two choices, leave the apps alone, or give detailed and EXACT reasons why something is removed or delayed. No playing coy, or keeping quiet; full details to the developer. No exceptions.

The developer “says” they have no idea why it was removed and that Apple isn’t sharing. That’s not necessarily true, developers are aware that Apple won’t comment on certain things, so the dev can say whatever they want knowing that Apple will not say “that’s not true”. So, Apple being quiet doesn’t automatically mean they are in the wrong, they, unlike the developer, don’t have a need to get on social media and try to placate folks that can’t download an app again.

If there’s an ongoing investigation into the developer or their app, it may not even be legal for Apple to say anything.

 

[iamgalt]

Intellectual property theft is a colloquial term, not a legal term. It does not exist in the legal system.

Theft legally means something very specific. YOU can use it that way, and that's fine, but that's your definition, and it won't fly in any court.

But, AGAIN, the point is that this App isn't piracy, it's not illegal, and Apple shouldn't be putting their fingers in any companies App store. Walmart doesn't get to pull products from Target's shelves, and Apple shouldn't be pulling Apps from another App store.

Can I get a little bit of whatever you're smoking? Because Intellectual Property Theft if very much a legal term and used throughout the legal system all over the world. The whole Napster case, that pretty much created iTunes, was based around it, not to mention thousands of others. How about the whole blood oxygen sensor and software in the apple watch. The company that originally created it still had it, but didn't get royalties for it from Apple. Intellectual property theft. But if you want to live in your bubble of "I don't like it so it doesn't exist", enjoy your life of willful ignorance. Cheers.

 

[SeaFox]

Are these apps to control/view torrent clients running elsewhere or are people actually pulling torrents direct to their phones?

Apple doesn't allow either. This is why certain torrent clients have retooled their web interfaces to be more mobile-browser friendly. It also refuses to recognize Magnet links, which is easier to do when you have defacto control over the only web browser allowed to run on iOS.

 

[russell_314]

Since torrenters don't take it away from anyone, it's not theft.

That’s not how that works. If you’re downloading software to use it without paying then you’re using a product without paying. That’s called theft.

Of course, one could argue that it’s morally acceptable to steal from certain groups or individuals, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s theft.