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I'd say Apple wouldn't have released the update if they didn't get the go ahead by both ITC and CBP. These two entities work together to investigate and enforce decisions regarding patent disputes. If they are satisfied with Apples work around I'd say Massimo is most likely SOL. Who knows, maybe the new administration became sympathetic to Apples point of view and contributed to the decision
 
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I'd say Apple wouldn't have released the update if they didn't get the go ahead by both ITC and CBP. These two entities work together to investigate and enforce decisions regarding patent disputes. If they are satisfied with Apples work around I'd say Massimo is most likely SOL. Who knows, maybe the new administration became sympathetic to Apples point of view and contributed to the decision
Perhaps, but last year I studied the patents a bit and thought that Apple could work around them by doing exactly what they recently did (offload the processing from the watch). The way the patent claims are written seem to require on-board processing to determine SpO2. So I think if Apple got the all-clear from CBP then they are probably good on this workaround. Masimo seems upset with the government that they were not consulted first, but that is a different legal issue than patent infringement.
 
Tell me if I'm wrong. Apple came out with the O2 tech. Masimo sued. Apple followed the law and stopped selling the devices. Everything Apple has done is follow the law. They NEVER broke the law and went with whatever the judgment was. Now after presenting their case, Apple was allowed to offer O2 according to the law. They always followed the law from beginning to end.

Soooooooo, don't hate the player, hate the game!
 
Tell me if I'm wrong. Apple came out with the O2 tech. Masimo sued. Apple followed the law and stopped selling the devices. Everything Apple has done is follow the law. They NEVER broke the law and went with whatever the judgment was. Now after presenting their case, Apple was allowed to offer O2 according to the law. They always followed the law from beginning to end.

Soooooooo, don't hate the player, hate the game!
you are ABSOLUTELY wrong. Masimo had patents on the technology of the pulse ox and blood oxygen readings well before apple.. so they aren't the "player" and they lost the "game"
 
Perhaps, but last year I studied the patents a bit and thought that Apple could work around them by doing exactly what they recently did (offload the processing from the watch). The way the patent claims are written seem to require on-board processing to determine SpO2. So I think if Apple got the all-clear from CBP then they are probably good on this workaround. Masimo seems upset with the government that they were not consulted first, but that is a different legal issue than patent infringement.

I’ll repeat an earlier post of mine.

When Masimo originally sued Apple I assumed their patents were on hardware/sensors used to read blood oxygen.

Now it appears it has nothing to do with hardware and is simply how the data is processed. That means the hardware already present in the Apple Watch doesn’t violate any patents and Masimo is simply standing on the technicality of where the processing is done.

Seems to me Masimo’s patent is the equivalent of the iPhone rounded corners patent.
 
Highly unlikely the pulse ox contributed to any lives being saved. EKG may have prevented some strokes.

A pulse ox doesn’t really save lives at a hospital much less on phone. They are very inconsistent based on the finger, the temperature of the skin etc
Pulse Ox is used to make medical decisions. You may not think that a reading that drifts from say 92-95% is that interesting, but that can influence the course of action a doctor takes can can definiately influence patent outcomes.

Give it up, losers. Apple will just fight this and find workarounds until your patent expires. You're just wasting your own time and energy. Apple is Apple. At the end of the day, they're going to crush you.

They could, but fighting this until the patent expires is cheaper.
It depends. If (and it's a bif if) Apple are still infringing, then Massimo can be awarded damages even after the expiry of their patent to cover the damages incurred whilst it was active
They're a patent troll. Don't get emotionally manipulated by those clowns.

If the patent is for on device, absolutely. The watch is now basically a sensor like you could buy from dozens of companies. But even those non-Masimo companies do the blood ox on device without a license.

The question is why Masimo is targeting Apple, and why other companies aren’t targeted.
It comes down to effort and likely outcomes. If Masimo sued one of the no-one Chinese brands, selling $10 units, the liklihood is the company would declare bankrupcy and Masimo would get no damages. Apple on the other hand, is a large entity that isn't going anywhere, selling infringing devices costing multing hundred dollars, so it is more likely that a successful lawsuit would lead to substantial damages paid to Masimo.

Does Masimo have a product yet? Last I saw their watch was still vaporware.
If you or a friend or relative have had a hospital stay, the odds are a Masimo product has been used.
Go figure. You can buy one of those "O2 finger testers" in any drugstore for cheap. This is patent trolling IMHO.
Those cheap finger units aren't medically grade. There are strict certifications that medical devices have to go through, so even if the cheap units work in the same way and use the same components, if the variation/tolerances of the device haven't been certified they can't be used in medical settings.
 
People defending Apple here are way off. The second someone infringes on Apples ip Apple sues them and shuts them down. There have been so many companies that have found back doors to imessage on Amdroid. Apple immediately files ip infringement and shuts them down. They done allow anyone to use any of their ip and neither should Masimo. Apple either needs to pay them or come up with their own way of doing it.
 
Pulse Ox is used to make medical decisions. You may not think that a reading that drifts from say 92-95% is that interesting, but that can influence the course of action a doctor takes can can definiately influence patent outcomes.




It depends. If (and it's a bif if) Apple are still infringing, then Massimo can be awarded damages even after the expiry of their patent to cover the damages incurred whilst it was active



It comes down to effort and likely outcomes. If Masimo sued one of the no-one Chinese brands, selling $10 units, the liklihood is the company would declare bankrupcy and Masimo would get no damages. Apple on the other hand, is a large entity that isn't going anywhere, selling infringing devices costing multing hundred dollars, so it is more likely that a successful lawsuit would lead to substantial damages paid to Masimo.


If you or a friend or relative have had a hospital stay, the odds are a Masimo product has been used.

Those cheap finger units aren't medically grade. There are strict certifications that medical devices have to go through, so even if the cheap units work in the same way and use the same components, if the variation/tolerances of the device haven't been certified they can't be used in medical settings.
Yet again mossino does not have a watch which is what the patent covers. Can’t have an all encapsulating patent that is overly broad
 
Why dont they just buy masimo? Probably cheaper than all these back and forth patent troll litigations and the apple watch userbase constantly in limbo about features THEY PAID FOR
 
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US patents began in 1790. This outdated process needs a complete overhaul for today’s innovation.
 
I’ll repeat an earlier post of mine.

When Masimo originally sued Apple I assumed their patents were on hardware/sensors used to read blood oxygen.

Now it appears it has nothing to do with hardware and is simply how the data is processed. That means the hardware already present in the Apple Watch doesn’t violate any patents and Masimo is simply standing on the technicality of where the processing is done.

Seems to me Masimo’s patent is the equivalent of the iPhone rounded corners patent.
The claims cover a combination of hardware and functionality that could be implemented in software. By removing the functionality, Apple was able to continue selling the hardware (that was effectively disabled) without infringing the patents.

Now, the functionality specified in the patents is being performed offboard, and I don't think the patents cover that particular arrangement, hence we have the new way of doing things.

I don't have the details of the lawsuit but it sounds like Masimo is not accusing Apple with infringement, but rather accusing Customs of "exceeding their authority" to bless Apple's workaround. Which, as I mentioned, is a different legal issue.
 
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Why dont they just buy masimo? Probably cheaper than all these back and forth patent troll litigations and the apple watch userbase constantly in limbo about features THEY PAID FOR
I think this is the solution. It’s a publicity traded company.

If it was me I would buy the company, claim all the patents, layoff the employees and sell the physical assets.
 
A pulse ox doesn’t really save lives at a hospital much less on phone. They are very inconsistent based on the finger, the temperature of the skin etc
Medical grade pulse oximetry is almost universally used in hospitals to monitor oxygenation, especially during procedures and in critical care settings, with actionable results. Consumer fingertip pulse oximeters are somewhat less accurate, but can provide meaningful warning of diminished oxygenation. Devices such as an Apple Watch are not intended for continuous monitoring, but also are useful in susceptible individuals.
 
So someone steals your life's work and your advice to them is to get a life. OK.

What work is that? Masimo was founded in 1989. Dr. Takuo Aoyagi invented pulse oximetry in Japan in 1974 and the fingertip pulse-oximeter is from 1977. So their life’s work is patenting things they didn’t invent? Cornering the hospital market with those patents to the tune of a 90% market share?
 
If this is reversed and Apple has to remove it again, that would mean that none of the new Apple Watches that get released would have this feature, but it would stay on your watch if you already have it, correct?

In all seriousness, this would make me less likely to buy a new Apple watch. I know it might sound stupid, but that was one of the features I liked about the watch when I got mine. Would they be able to find another way to monitor blood oxygen levels? Or would this ruling mean that they could never implement it in their watches again?
 
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Everyone wants a piece of the Apple

Shouldn't that be a bite? A bite of the Apple? ;)

This sounds like Masimo won round one. Apple's lawyers found a way around their patent and ran with it. Now Masimo is pissy they got bested legally.

It's all about extorting some coin from Big Fruit. Since Apple found a way to make the feature work without giving Masimo a dime they're upset.

If the Court or the government imposes another injunction or ruling, Apple should just say "F" it and remove the functionality from the device. If Masimo wants to find a way to make a buck off it, they're more than welcome to. But I wouldn't pay them for it.

My AW U1 has the functioning pulse oximeter in it. I don't use it all that often. I have several underlying conditions that include heart disease. I don't walk around fretting my 02 levels. I live my life. So the feature is by no means a deal breaker.
 
Masimo is putting people’s lives at risk. These health monitoring systems put on to a consumer product like an Apple Watch saves lives. OK.

Apple is putting my life at risk. The apple watch helps to monitor and save lives and they should give it to me for free. OK.
 
Apple suddenly re-releases the feature after gifting a gold plated Apple trophy, and Masimo expects someone to rule against CBP who is essentially owned the receiver of said Apple trophy. funny times.

/partially sarcasm
 
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