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Some seem not to know, but VAT is applied not only at the retail level but at every stage of production and shipping that adds value to a product. In a sense, a large portion of the VAT is hidden. Retail is just a portion of the VAT.

You are incorrect. Although business pay VAT they also claim it back, so in effect they do not pay VAT at every stage of production and shipping that adds value to a product.

Only individuals actually pays the VAT on a product.
All businesses claim back the VAT they have paid for goods and services.
 
They don't need to lower the price, they just need to keep it the same - as other, very successful businesses are doing.



We don't want products cheaper than in other countries. We want them to cost roughly the same. It's one thing to round prices up slightly, it's another to charge 1/3 more. Americans wouldn't import an Apple TV from the UK if it cost the same amount. Not that it would, the £26 extra I quote is AFTER VAT!

Maybe Apple is keeping it the same - relative to Apple's target profit. The items in the UK/Europe may cost more because maybe (I'm just guessing, I don't know the details) the cost of doing business in Europe is more - minimum employee pay, minimum employee benefits, "employment/unemployment tax," other taxes charged to Apple, etc are all factored in the cost of an item. The cost of an item is not simply "how much did we (the company/retailer) pay for it then add x% for our take."
 
Why would people expect Apple to hold the price the same. Apple doesn't lower the purchase price for its products in the US based on what the local sales tax is. What many of our untraveled US citizens don't realize, is that the VAT has to be added on to the purchase price up-front, unlike in the US. If we did the same in the states, our prices would "go up" too.

Because the VAT has it's intended effect of having the consumer not blame the government for the price increase of a product. You don't see the taxes seperate like in the U.S. So you see the usual and expected response in here of people expecting Apple to absorb the cost of the tax increase and most people letting the government off the hook.
 
Just think of all the value you get with that tax. Free health care, longer life expectancy (79.4 vs. 78.3) than the US, and the British monarchy. All of this for just a few dollars more on retail products. I'm surprised more people aren't immigrating to the UK.
 
Except for the fact that pre-VAT, Apple prices are higher in the UK than the US after currency exchange.

They're like that in every other non-US country too. Maybe it has something to do with the cost of running a corporate presence in that country.
 
That is what happens when the liberals run the show. High taxes, and then more taxes. It's the same in Illinois - but not as bad as Europe - not yet.
 
That is what happens when the liberals run the show. High taxes, and then more taxes. It's the same in Illinois - but not as bad as Europe - not yet.
The senior partner in our government coalition are the Conservative Party :p
 
This thread is disheartening because there are shades of xenophobia on both sides. I mean who is voting positive? Perhaps the 'positive' button should have been replaced with 'schadenfreude' for this thread? ;)

All I'd say to those outside the UK, in the US especially, is (to repeat a point which has really already been made) that I think the disappointment at Apple raising the prices in line with the VAT rise is not because we think Apple should absorb the tax out of some misguided sense of entitlement, or even because the products have high margins and arguably high prices to begin with, but rather because there was already a disparity between US pre-tax prices and UK pre-tax prices. This disparity has been attributed to vague things such as 'the cost of doing business' and suchlike, and to having a bit of leeway for fluctuations in the exchange rates, much of which I personally think sounds like a bit of a fudge that whilst maybe having some basis in reality doesn't explain the situation fully.

So I don't think it's that we think Apple should be paying our taxes for us - just that the tax rise exacerbates an existing perception of overall overpricing. Apart from anything else, I don't think it's good for Apple to have a load of silly-looking prices in their store, it's very inelegant and un-Apple like. Even if they rounded some of the figures up and down it would look better... Again, the AppleTV at £101... it's just daft.

I'd not be laughing at American Apple customers if they got hit by some increased sales taxes, I think it's sad that some here seem to think we're a bunch of proto-commies who deserve what we get. It isn't the 1780s anymore, we're supposed to friends now!
 
The VAT rise is a rise of 2% on the sticker-price. And let's not forget that most staples (including food) have no VAT added. So your dear mother will probably face an increase of <1%.

So you're disappointed that Labour didn't give you all the freebies you wanted, yet you're now annoyed that tax has to rise to pay for their 'largess'. Where exactly do you think the government gets its money from?

No, I think you misunderstand me because I was not personally disappointed. I was referring to people who originally voted Labour with the belief that they would get what I refer to as "freebies." When those people did not get what they expected, they switched to Conservative/LibDem and are now faced with a 2.5% increase in VAT (on top of the 2.5% increase from the 15% it was reduced to around 2008). So that is quite a swing for some people.

I'm not sure how you calculated the <1%, so I cannot really refute it and you may be correct since the British Times newspaper is estimating most people will see about a £400-600 yearly increase if they maintained their level of spending.

Other than concern for my extended family, I am not really impacted by this change because I have worked in America since 1993.

These kinds of drastic changes, such as tax increases/decreases and stimulus packages are interesting because you really have no idea what would have happened if they had not been implemented. It is a bit like getting the flu shot or taking cold meds. Did you not get the flu because of the shot, or because you were not exposed. Similarly, did you not get a computer virus because of your computer/antivirus or because you just avoided virus inducing behavior?
 
They're like that in every other non-US country too. Maybe it has something to do with the cost of running a corporate presence in that country.

I believe Apple have addressed this in the past, in a statement where they pointed to the UK's import duties as a reason for the higher prices. Not sure exactly how true this is, but since the EU/UK require straight bananas I would not be surprised.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong because I don't know a lot about this stuff...

I just worked out that entry level iMac and MacBook Pro prices (£999 before) are £850 without VAT.

When you convert it to dollars and compare the prices, we're paying £80 more than the US. Take away the £20 Apple could easily afford to absorb and we'd still be paying £60 more than the US.

I'm sure this would cover shipping costs, etc, and probably leave them with profit leftover anyway!

And let's not forget that that's £60 on top of an already BIG profit they make anyway.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

And this is yet another reason as to why I am emigrating to the USA as soon as I'm out of uni.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong because I don't know a lot about this stuff...

I just worked out that entry level iMac and MacBook Pro prices (£999 before) are £850 without VAT.

When you convert it to dollars and compare the prices, we're paying £80 more than the US. Take away the £20 Apple could easily afford to absorb and we'd still be paying £60 more than the US.

I'm sure this would cover shipping costs, etc, and probably leave them with profit leftover anyway!

And let's not forget that that's £60 on top of an already BIG profit they make anyway.

UK prices are inclusive of tax, US isn't. Also you can compare UK/US prices for all sorts of things till you're blue in the face and the scenario has been the same for decades. eg. Big Macs, CDs, Nike shoes, fuel,... cars.

I wouldn't bother doing the comparisons, it doesn't achieve anything and also its a different economy. Thank your lucky stars you don't live in NZ; they make UK prices look like peanuts.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

And this is yet another reason as to why I am emigrating to the USA as soon as I'm out of uni.

... don't forget to pack the scotch eggs and chocolate hob-nobs.;)
 
Yikers! 20% VAT... that's a lot of Value to add! I hope the UK folks get something good for that!
Supposed job loses of 250,000... Yeah it's all good.

250,000? More like 500,000! But don't worry, Cameron says we can continue to do the jobs we've be made redundant from as volunteers!
:mad:
 
How much simpler the world would be with one bracketed tax...

How much is also taxed on income? 20% feels high, but in the states most of our tax comes from income tax. It is probably higher overall in europe, but there are a lot of hidden taxes besides VAT and sales tax.

Here in Chicago sales tax is 12.5% (high for the states), but if I add federal and state income tax to that it would be close to 40% tax (in my tax bracket, top 25% of population). So a $999 MacBook Air would be $1398.60.

Thats before taking things like health care (that we don't get for free) in to account.
 
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This thread is disheartening because there are shades of xenophobia on both sides. I mean who is voting positive? Perhaps the 'positive' button should have been replaced with 'schadenfreude' for this thread? ;)

:: snip ::

I'd not be laughing at American Apple customers if they got hit by some increased sales taxes, I think it's sad that some here seem to think we're a bunch of proto-commies who deserve what we get. It isn't the 1780s anymore, we're supposed to friends now!
I don't even bother with looking at that ratings number anymore -- why? Because you DON'T know the motivation or what is being rated what. It's easy to get confused at the motivations as this isn't a poll with specific questions.

Here, you think that when people rate this article positive, they mean it's GREAT that Apple's prices are even higher now that the VAT is higher. Perhaps they are simply rating that it's positive that Apple properly raised their prices at the right time so that they didn't lose money by having to pay part of the VAT price (perhaps they're shareholders). You don't really know the motivation.

Yes. There are jerks who who have a chip on their shoulder all the time and they're going to be negative no matter what. Guess what? England has those types, too. They're everywhere. Here on the internet, we call them trolls no matter what country they're from.

There are few articles that it would easy to tell what the Positive/Negative numbers meant. Here's one: "Steve Jobs 100% cured of all health problems" and we get 179 Negs or "Steve Jobs dies in plane crash" and get 179 Positives. Those are the jerks doing that and you just have to accept the fact that they exist.

Also -- now that I'm thinking about it -- how do you know what nationalities represented here are pressing what button? You're just assuming it's Americans. There are people from all parts of the globe that come to MacRumors.com every day. Why is it the Americans who are pushing the "wrong" button to upset you Brits? Rethink, my man, rethink.
 
I agree that the income tax should be eliminated and either a 'fair' tax or national sales tax should be instituted. Sadly the current Democratic regime wants an income tax and a VAT tax.

I'm a liberal Democrat and I most certainly do not support a VAT tax. VAT is a regressive tax. Furthermore, the U.S. States and cities would still need to charge their local sales taxes, so we're going to start paying something like 29% tax on everything we buy in addition to income taxes? Never happen. If anyone tried to implement this, the Tea Party demonstrations would be like a...well.. a tea party in comparison to the resulting revolt. Even if income taxes were eliminated in favor of the VAT, the psychological impact of paying such a big tax on each purchase would be too difficult for Americans to overcome, even if it did actually work out to lower annual taxes for each.

Every modern President has said they would try to simplify the tax system, but that's never going to happen because it's a thankless job. Every group would still want to maintain "their" deduction, whether it's the dependent deduction, mortgage interest deductions, business expenses, etc. and even though the deductions are all a game to rig the system for those in the know and in the end, the government needs the same money to operate. So even if the system were simplified to the point where everyone paid a (presumably lower) percentage of gross income and there were no deductions, on average, everyone would still pay pretty much the same thing (you'd save some money by being able to downsize the IRS and you'd no longer have to pay a tax accountant, but that's about it). And the accountants' lobby would certainly object. What's the point of expending all that political capital on that? In the end, no one would be happy.

It's the rich who want a VAT tax because they spend less of their income on consumption. They also want to eliminate taxes on capital gains because they "think" that only workers should pay taxes. A VAT tax, if applied to everything, including food, rent, and medical is unfair because lower-income people need to spend a much higher percentage of their income (usually above 90%) on essentials.

And you can't look at how much something costs across countries simply by doing the currency conversion. You have to look at it from the perspective of how many hours the average worker has to put in to afford the product. Furthermore, things cost more in Europe and in the UK because it's more expensive to do business there. Taxes are generally higher, there's more regulation and restrictions, and while management/executive salaries are somewhat lower than the U.S., benefits cost far more. Energy costs are far higher. Europeans laugh at the meager 10 holidays a year that most Americans who work for corporations receive. And some countries, like Germany, actually have restrictions on discounting. In addition to more holidays, my co-workers in Germany generally start with six weeks vacation (and they take it). All this factors into the price of products.

I participate in a forum about Nikon cameras and the complaints are exactly the same - how Nikon products cost more in Europe and the UK as compared with the U.S.
 
American sub prime had a big part to play..... and then there's the Health care we get and don't start reading republican twaddle about the NHS being third world etc
 
This is the quote of the year so far!

Where do you think the extra £200 on a £1000 purchase is going? Might it be funding your so-called free _______?

The healthcare received over the NHS is completely "free"; you don’t pay any of your personal money for hospitalised treatment. Instead you pay the money you allocated for tax, and not for personal things. Even then, it still works out considerably more affordable (and dare I say better) for treatment here, so there’s no need to pull the "healthcare isn’t free" card.
 
No, I think you misunderstand me because I was not personally disappointed. I was referring to people who originally voted Labour with the belief that they would get what I refer to as "freebies." When those people did not get what they expected, they switched to Conservative/LibDem and are now faced with a 2.5% increase in VAT (on top of the 2.5% increase from the 15% it was reduced to around 2008). So that is quite a swing for some people.

I don't really agree with your analysis. The reason we have the deficit we do is because there were way too many 'freebies' given out. That might be difficult for you to appreciate if you're not resident.

I'm not sure how you calculated the <1%, so I cannot really refute it and you may be correct since the British Times newspaper is estimating most people will see about a £400-600 yearly increase if they maintained their level of spending.

Well, the increase is around 2.12% on VAT-rated items.

Food, fuel (house), mortgage or rent payments, newspapers and books either aren't taxed with VAT, or the VAT isn't increasing. So it depends how much of your mother's income is spent on these necessities compared to durables/clothing/luxuries. Assuming half/half she'd see around a 1% rise.

Let's calculate what the £400 increase the Times states actually means. That £400 is the total of the 2.12% increments - so to reach that level you'd have to be spending just under £19k per year on non-essentials.

So the Times's £400 example is for someone clearly on well-over average pay. For a poor family it would be a lot less.
 
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