Apple Car Battery Talks Stall in Another Blow to Electric Vehicle Project

[mrscott4]

Apple's negotiations with the Chinese companies CATL and BYD about supplying batteries for its rumored electric vehicle have mostly stalled, Reuters reports.

According to three individuals said to have knowledge of the discussions between Apple and the Chinese firms, the talks reached an impasse when CATL and BYD refused to set up teams dedicated to Apple and manufacturing plants in the United States. It has previously been reported that Apple is keen to bring at least some of the manufacturing related to the vehicle to the U.S., with particular focus on the batteries.

Apple allegedly wants to use lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery for its electric vehicle, partly because they are cheaper to produce than more expensive lithium batteries that need cobalt and nickel. The company is understood to be looking to Chinese battery manufacturers because they can make more advanced LFP batteries than their rivals thanks to battery pack technology that bolsters performance, driving range, and energy density.

CATL is the world's leading manufacturer of batteries for electric vehicles and supplies Tesla, but has been reluctant to build a factory in the U.S. due to concerns about costs and geopolitical tensions. BYD already has an iron-phosphate battery facility in Lancaster, California, but simply refused to build a new factory that would supply Apple exclusively. CATL has also found it "impossible" to set up a dedicated product development team to exclusively work with Apple due to an inability to find sufficient personnel.

CATL and BYD apparently informed Apple several months ago that they were unwilling to meet these requirements, but Apple has remained hopeful that it can reach an agreement. Apple is now being forced to consider Japanese battery suppliers, such as Panasonic, and has sent a group of staff to Japan this month to explore this possibility.

Difficulties in establishing a supply of batteries could further delay the development of the vehicle, worsening existing issues after project leader Doug Field left Apple to join Ford. Kevin Lynch, who spearheaded the development Apple Watch, is now believed to be leading the vehicle project.

Article Link: Apple Car Battery Talks Stall in Another Blow to Electric Vehicle Project

Apple may be taking a look at the revolutionary car battery technology that’s recently been invented by Atlis Motor Vehicles atlismotorvehicles.com …batteries can charge from zero to 100% in less than 15 minutes.

 

[citysnaps]

They need to be considering something completely new, and so does the entire auto industry. Electric cars can never become mainstream with lithium ion on at the heart. They are dangerous, and an environmental hazard. It sort of works right now because of the minuscule scale of distribution. For it to be done at scale, would be impossible with the current technology.

Lithium Sulfer is new and has great promise. Greater energy density and safety. It’s the future.

 

[CordovaLark]

People are forgetting the massive software teams just for the car alone, the testing of said car, more testing of the car, getting approval to put it on the road. Testing again. Design changes. Then manufacturing the thing. Updating the car with fixes for the software etc.

All to be done in less 3 years, hell no. Now add the thought of Siri being partially in control of a vehicle. Gods help us.

 

[erthquake]

They need to be considering something completely new, and so does the entire auto industry. Electric cars can never become mainstream with lithium ion on at the heart. They are dangerous, and an environmental hazard. It sort of works right now because of the minuscule scale of distribution. For it to be done at scale, would be impossible with the current technology.

So much disinformation in this. The percentage of fires in gas cars is much higher than in EVs. Li+ is scaling rapidly (and safely) as we speak. Tesla is producing a million EVs per year now and growing 50% per year. VW, Nio, Xpeng are also rapidly scaling.

 

[Kuckuckstein]

This is probably the hardest project Apple has worked on. So many hurdles!

It is because in contrast to iPod, iPhone, headphones, Apple Watch and Apple silicon, this is not an organic growth. While these products were new categories for Apple, they were similar or of small enough scale to grow into them with reasonable effort.

A car is a different beast. Suddenly there is heavy mechanics, there is passenger safety and the battery manufacturers have enough customers who currently pay what is needed to stay in business.

Apple might succeed, but this is a tough one. Tesla has set the tone - revolutionized the playground. They did to the car business what Apple has done to the phone business. If they hadn’t struggled with production issues, the field could look very very different, because competition still struggles to get to the same range and their autonomous driving software is still in the lead.

But I have to admit, recently some of the other car manufacturers have come closer and in style. And so, with already fierce and innovative competition, for Apple, this is not an easy playing field.

 

[Pro Apple Silicon]

So much disinformation in this. The percentage of fires in gas cars is much higher than in EVs. Li+ is scaling rapidly (and safely) as we speak. Tesla is producing a million EVs per year now and growing 50% per year. VW, Nio, Xpeng are also rapidly scaling.

There is zero disinfo. The head in the sand approach you people have with the batteries is extremely frightening. They are an environmental nightmare, you know it, and you pretend otherwise because you don't want to be wrong.

 

[erthquake]

There is zero disinfo. The head in the sand approach you people have with the batteries is extremely frightening. They are an environmental nightmare, you know it, and you pretend otherwise because you don't want to be wrong.

The facts don't support your hyperbolic assertions. Every atom of a battery pack can be recycled into a new battery pack, unlike fossil fuels.

 

[mrhick01]

Don't want car batteries to be suddenly nationalized if there's fallout between countries.

Exactly.

On top of that, I actually see these Chinese companies' positions on this battery impasse as a sign of international tension. Although it will be more expensive, it's critical to have at least some level of local manufacturing.

If the United States lacks the manufacturing capacity of Chinese factories, build it, and do it in a way that fairly compensates its workers. This might be a 25-year project, and ultimately it will be overwhelmingly automated.

 

[Aston441]

QuantumScape to the rescue!

 

[4tune8chance]

Apple's negotiations with the Chinese companies CATL and BYD about supplying batteries for its rumored electric vehicle have mostly stalled, Reuters reports.

According to three individuals said to have knowledge of the discussions between Apple and the Chinese firms, the talks reached an impasse when CATL and BYD refused to set up teams dedicated to Apple and manufacturing plants in the United States. It has previously been reported that Apple is keen to bring at least some of the manufacturing related to the vehicle to the U.S., with particular focus on the batteries.

Apple allegedly wants to use lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery for its electric vehicle, partly because they are cheaper to produce than more expensive lithium batteries that need cobalt and nickel. The company is understood to be looking to Chinese battery manufacturers because they can make more advanced LFP batteries than their rivals thanks to battery pack technology that bolsters performance, driving range, and energy density.

CATL is the world's leading manufacturer of batteries for electric vehicles and supplies Tesla, but has been reluctant to build a factory in the U.S. due to concerns about costs and geopolitical tensions. BYD already has an iron-phosphate battery facility in Lancaster, California, but simply refused to build a new factory that would supply Apple exclusively. CATL has also found it "impossible" to set up a dedicated product development team to exclusively work with Apple due to an inability to find sufficient personnel.

CATL and BYD apparently informed Apple several months ago that they were unwilling to meet these requirements, but Apple has remained hopeful that it can reach an agreement. Apple is now being forced to consider Japanese battery suppliers, such as Panasonic, and has sent a group of staff to Japan this month to explore this possibility.

Difficulties in establishing a supply of batteries could further delay the development of the vehicle, worsening existing issues after project leader Doug Field left Apple to join Ford. Kevin Lynch, who spearheaded the development Apple Watch, is now believed to be leading the vehicle project.

Article Link: Apple Car Battery Talks Stall in Another Blow to Electric Vehicle Project

Stop dealing with China, why have we not learned yet? The CCP screws you over at every opportunity, go to Taiwan, a democratic countr.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I would never buy a car from Apple. Imagine trying to get something fixed under warranty after leaving your car out in the rain.

Imagine wanting to change the wipers, and discover that you have to also replace the entire bonnet, battery, and steering wheel, as they are all welded together.

 

[tyranne201]

making cars is so 20th century. i don't know why Apple is still into this. they should be investing in shared transportation.

 

[scotty321]

Wow. It’s sad to hear that Apple is still trying to work on this ludicrous project. They really need to abandon this entire idea altogether. With all the problems people encounter with their iPhones, iPads, and Macs, nobody would ever trust getting into a vehicle created by Apple. There’s a huge difference between a Mac freezing and a vehicle freezing. Not sure if Apple realizes that. Apple, please leave vehicle creation to trusted names like Toyota, while you stick with little gadgets.

 

[svish]

Though apple car is far far away, apple will lock on to its suppliers now itself. Seems like much work is to be done.

 

[orthorim]

They need to get over their ego and ask Elon for advice.

Gigafactory is open source. Apple literally has $Billions lying around doing nothing. So right now, they should just build their own gigafactory, in America. Plenty of places, plenty of space.

Of course they're not used to this, they're used to being able to get the best prices due to volume, and special attention and so on. Well they don't have that volume in cars, and it may even become a failure.

 

[orthorim]

Why do you think it needs to go to the states.

They need to get all their manufacturing back to the states.

It's mostly robots in these factories anyway, it's not about labor cost anymore

It's about being independent from for example the chinese communist party. Sure as long as they like you, you're good. But if they should stop liking you, the CCCP can actually sink the entirety of Apple. As it turns out that was a stupid risk to take

These days, Apple is dependent on suppliers for mass volume products; for example FoxConn can hire 5,000 engineers by tomorrow. Nobody in America can do that. Not enough engineers around.

Then there's supply chains - all parts are easy to get nearby in China; in the USA, it's not even possible to get some of them.

But for cars, no mass volume, should be OK to build in the USA.

 

[SurferPup]

Maybe a trip to Japan is all the motivation CATL needs to bow to Apple's will considering how well the Japanese and Chinese get along.

 

[sdf]

They planned on building a TV for over a decade before they dropped it in favor of just letting other TVs include AirPlay + AppleTV+ and then selling a separate box that could be plugged into any other TV that didn't have those features built in.

Did they?

There was never any evidence they planned an entire TV, unless you believed Gene Munster.

 

[TakeshimaIslands]

They need to get all their manufacturing back to the states.

It's mostly robots in these factories anyway, it's not about labor cost anymore

It's about being independent from for example the chinese communist party. Sure as long as they like you, you're good. But if they should stop liking you, the CCCP can actually sink the entirety of Apple. As it turns out that was a stupid risk to take

These days, Apple is dependent on suppliers for mass volume products; for example FoxConn can hire 5,000 engineers by tomorrow. Nobody in America can do that. Not enough engineers around.

Then there's supply chains - all parts are easy to get nearby in China; in the USA, it's not even possible to get some of them.

But for cars, no mass volume, should be OK to build in the USA.

Agree, I'm sick of timmy and his worship of china. Apple is a multi trillion$ market cap company so tim should stop being a penny pinching cheapskate using the cheapest contractors situated in china and should prioritize diversifying their production hubs globally.

Especially with growing political and economic toxicity between ccp and the west it would be a smart and safer idea to be less reliant on the ccp's totalitarian monopolistic stranglehold on key global logistical and material instruments and move as much production away as possible.


It isn't hard to build batteries and cars in the US, LUCID has got a brand new factory in Arizona where they are currently building the LUCID air and battery packs nearby which would make a great turn key OEM for apple to build their cars.

 

[h4lp m3]

Plus I NEVER buy premium brand cars. Any car Apple makes will cost way more than a trusted brand like Toyota, and the Toyota will likely still be running 10 years and 200,000 miles later, but the Apple Cart will likely be littering junk yards across the country. Yep, Apple Cart seems like a good name for it because it will be so buggy that you will have to tow it home a lot.

Plus, you won’t be able to fix it yourself, service costs will be astronimic, requires genuine Apple Parts, and will lock you out after 10 failed attempts, (8 of which were caused by rain and wind) and only comes in 3 colors.

Important Vehicle Message​

Unable to verify this iCar has a genuine Apple battery.​