Apple Car Design Goals: No Steering Wheel or Brake Pedal, Flat Seats for Sleeping, Large Screens, and More

[farmboy]

Considering his butterfly keyboard and other stupid stuff he did, he went off the deep end a good while ago.
That pretentious prick has long stopped being relevant.

Ive doesn't do engineering. The problematic keyboard was an Apple engineering effort. Altho Ive did plenty of stupid stuff on his own.

 

[quatermass]

Not even in the same league. Planes move at 700+ miles per hour in 3D space and can weigh almost 150,000 lbs. I'm sure you an imagine a crash at 700 mph at 30,000 ft with 100 people is a lot more problematic than a vehicle that typically moves 80+ mph and in 2D space.




Bingo. It's hilarious to see all the negative comments or the tired joke of thinking that Siri is the same thing as a hard, realtime, computing system that is used in autonomous vehicles or even in engine management.

I doubt the Apple Car will come this decade but at some point in the near future, driverless cars will become so common, safe and ubiquitous that insurance companies won't even insure human drivers anymore either—it'll be way too risky. You won't be able to drive yourself and that's a good thing.

Most people clearly don't even want to drive, they'd rather text, play a game, etc. Too many idiots on the road have already ruined driving for everyone else. Transportation is a means to an end for most people.

Human drivers:

• Fall asleep / drive impaired / drunk / distracted
• Only have 2 eyes that see one direction
• Respond in 250 ms (about 1/4 second)
• Weren't designed for / evolved for driving at high rates of speed
• Biased and emotional (road rage)

Computers:

• Never fall sleep
• Can use multiple sensors at once and in 360° (GPS, wheel/suspension, camera, radar/lidar, etc.)
• Respond in 1 ms
• Programmed for the task at hand
• Rational / non-biased

In an ideal situation, computers know exactly how far you are away from other vehicles and know exactly how long it takes to stop in the conditions you're driving in (dry, wet, snow, etc). They don't need brake lights to see if someone is slowing down. Good AI can also take into account multiple previous situations instantly and decide what to do.

We're not there yet but the writing is on the wall.

Absolutely. If you've ever flown on a commercial aircraft, you've been flown by computer(s). Sure, the pilots are perfectly capable of flying the aircraft, and are even required to do a certain amount of manual flying and landings to keep their licenses current, but in the vast majority of circumstances it's the computers doing the flying, and doing a much better, safer and more efficient job of it than any pilot could. Big jets are seriously difficult to hand fly!

Now, if only car drivers were held to the same standards as pilots, we'd see a) a lots less stupid, preventable and fatal accidents and b) a lot less drivers on the road. Every single car related incident I've witnessed has always been caused by some human being in the loop. The faster we can remove liveware from the mix, the better. Tesla's FSD is already doing a remarkable job - just compare the accident figures for Tesla versus human beings at the controls of an ICE vehicle.

We should also take note that in order to drive, you have to pass a test and are granted a license. It's not a right, but a privilege which is granted, and can be revoked, and it's that way with good reason.

Would I get into a computer controlled pod that takes me from A to B without the possibility of me being able to control it? Absolutely - it's the other, human controlled vehicles that worry me. As my driving instructor rightly said: "Don't ever forget that everyone else on the road is trying to kill you."

 

[rafark]

It’s not a car as we know it. It’s a service.

To understand what Apple is aiming for, we have to wipe clear what we’ve known about cars and look to how the newer generation are using cars — at least in cities. Personal transport is becoming a service. In a world where Uber is ubiquitous, fewer and fewer young people are getting their drivers’ licenses because they can pull out their phone and within 5 minutes there’s a car pulling up, taking them to where they need to go. Those of us who grew up in a car era with the romance of driving one and owning one and washing it in the driveway — we are not the target, unless we want to be. Apple is looking way ahead.

Apple was never in a business position to sell cars. iPhones, iPads, Watches, AirPods and Macs are more expensive than their industry counterparts but they still fall within the price accessibility of a large enough portion of users that Apple can make a business out of it. The same is not true for cars. A car is already very expensive, add the Apple tax and only wealthy folks would be able to afford it. Apple is not in the rich customer exclusivity niche.

Apple is getting into this sector because they must, in order to compete. It’s no secret that Google is doing the same and they cannot allow themselves to be in a position where Google or other third parties control one of the largest services that could then dictate how Apple interacts with it.

These are going to be more like Apple Pods, than cars in the traditional sense of the word. You’ll tap your watch and a Pod will show up, take you to where you need to go and then pick up the next passenger. No driver, no user steering, all Apple experience inside.

There will always be cars that we drive ourselves and Apple seems to be doubling down on partnering with other manufacturers to bring their experience into those vehicles. But what Apple is releasing themselves, is leaping over that industry and into something completely new.

I’m gen z and I don’t agree with you.

 

[genovelle]

It’s not a car as we know it. It’s a service.

To understand what Apple is aiming for, we have to wipe clear what we’ve known about cars and look to how the newer generation are using cars — at least in cities. Personal transport is becoming a service. In a world where Uber is ubiquitous, fewer and fewer young people are getting their drivers’ licenses because they can pull out their phone and within 5 minutes there’s a car pulling up, taking them to where they need to go. Those of us who grew up in a car era with the romance of driving one and owning one and washing it in the driveway — we are not the target, unless we want to be. Apple is looking way ahead.

Apple was never in a business position to sell cars. iPhones, iPads, Watches, AirPods and Macs are more expensive than their industry counterparts but they still fall within the price accessibility of a large enough portion of users that Apple can make a business out of it. The same is not true for cars. A car is already very expensive, add the Apple tax and only wealthy folks would be able to afford it. Apple is not in the rich customer exclusivity niche.

Apple is getting into this sector because they must, in order to compete. It’s no secret that Google is doing the same and they cannot allow themselves to be in a position where Google or other third parties control one of the largest services that could then dictate how Apple interacts with it.

These are going to be more like Apple Pods, than cars in the traditional sense of the word. You’ll tap your watch and a Pod will show up, take you to where you need to go and then pick up the next passenger. No driver, no user steering, all Apple experience inside.

There will always be cars that we drive ourselves and Apple seems to be doubling down on partnering with other manufacturers to bring their experience into those vehicles. But what Apple is releasing themselves, is leaping over that industry and into something completely new.

I think you just discovered the name. CarPods

 

[genovelle]

What an over engineered mess Titan is

No one in their right mind is going to get into a vehicle they cannot manually control if necessary

And: whoever spent the resources to do that polished video with drones footage of the car driving through empty roads of Montana should be fired

Ironically there are automated mass transit vehicles in major cities currently. The key is they are carrying more people at once.

 

[Kiimora]

No thanx 😐, this is where I draw the line !!

 

[genovelle]

I wonder where the car doors will be located.

Likely sliding doors that provide access or seats that rotate after you sit down.

 

[MrMojo1]

"No Steering Wheel or Brake Pedal, Flat Seats for Sleeping, Large Screens, and More."

That's not an automobile that Apple wants to build.
No possible alternative to take full control If something happens, which usually does, when traveling on the roadways. Worse will be on the highway due to speed and other reckless drivers.

Sounds like a possible moving coffin if anything wrong happens.
'Hey, Siri! Did you do a diagnostic?'
Siri.. 'Yes, everything is in optimal order' in Hal's voice (see Space Odyssey movie).
What could possibly go wrong?

 

[genovelle]

I worry less about the computer and more about the other drivers still operating their own vehicle. Just because the computer will have better reflexes than me eventually doesn't mean other people can't cause accidents because of their poor driving. I'm all for self driving cars but if there's still a lot of human drivers out there I at least want an emergency steering wheel, brake, etc lol.

That’s the point of better reflexes. Avoidance maneuvers can be implemented 3-5 times faster, meaning better reaction times and the best possible outcome under the worse possible conditions.

 

[RevTEG]

This car will be an engineering and technical challenge in itself, but without steering wheel and break pedal, it will also need a lot of social acceptability and will have to overcome a lot of road legislation

No way there is a commercialized apple car in 2025.

Exactly, not to mention the YEARS of getting the first no steering wheel or break pedal vehicle through regulations.

 

[RevTEG]

Absolutely. If you've ever flown on a commercial aircraft, you've been flown by computer(s). Sure, the pilots are perfectly capable of flying the aircraft, and are even required to do a certain amount of manual flying and landings to keep their licenses current, but in the vast majority of circumstances it's the computers doing the flying, and doing a much better, safer and more efficient job of it than any pilot could. Big jets are seriously difficult to hand fly!

Now, if only car drivers were held to the same standards as pilots, we'd see a) a lots less stupid, preventable and fatal accidents and b) a lot less drivers on the road. Every single car related incident I've witnessed has always been caused by some human being in the loop. The faster we can remove liveware from the mix, the better. Tesla's FSD is already doing a remarkable job - just compare the accident figures for Tesla versus human beings at the controls of an ICE vehicle.

We should also take note that in order to drive, you have to pass a test and are granted a license. It's not a right, but a privilege which is granted, and can be revoked, and it's that way with good reason.

Would I get into a computer controlled pod that takes me from A to B without the possibility of me being able to control it? Absolutely - it's the other, human controlled vehicles that worry me. As my driving instructor rightly said: "Don't ever forget that everyone else on the road is trying to kill you."

I agree with your points, but aircraft still have yokes/sticks and pedals. An Apple car with no steering wheel or break pedal is not the best compassion.

 

[johncarync]

I'm just imagining how this will be if the previous occupant was drunk and vomited on the seats or a car full of young adults who had just been to a drive-thru at a fast food place. Or people who believe their trash is other people's problems when they throw it out the window while driving or clean out their car by tossing everything out the door in a parking lot (no need to now because it becomes the next occupant's problem).

They will account for this. You press a button that says car unacceptable. It will whiz off to the garage for a cleaning and another car will appear in a few seconds. If the previous occupants left a significant mess, their account will be charged a penalty for the cleaning. Most will clean up after themselves to avoid the cleaning fine.

 

[Nicole1980]

What you (or anyone else here) feels isn‘t reality. Again I call BS on ONE person being able to make a decision on what keyboards would be in Apple laptops or how many ports they would have. Apple has a whole product marketing team responsible for determining features/configurations/pricing for products. To think Ive said Mac laptops will now have crappy keyboards with limited ports and everyone else said OK Jony you’re the boss is laughable. It’s like when Phil Schiller got on stage to announce the trash can Mac Pro and said “can’t innovate my a**”. That wasn’t about form over function. It was Apple making a bet about the future of high end computing and getting it wrong.

You seem to be fairly sure in your own right. And bending over backward to defend apple. Not sure where thats coming from lol

 

[Nicole1980]

What you (or anyone else here) feels isn‘t reality. Again I call BS on ONE person being able to make a decision on what keyboards would be in Apple laptops or how many ports they would have. Apple has a whole product marketing team responsible for determining features/configurations/pricing for products. To think Ive said Mac laptops will now have crappy keyboards with limited ports and everyone else said OK Jony you’re the boss is laughable. It’s like when Phil Schiller got on stage to announce the trash can Mac Pro and said “can’t innovate my a**”. That wasn’t about form over function. It was Apple making a bet about the future of high end computing and getting it wrong.

And to assert that the trash can mac pro wasnt form over function is such a daft statement I wonder what kind of coolaid you drink.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

They have to have at least a tiny steering wheel. Like the tiny wheel in the Heart Of Gold's escape pod in Hitchhikers Guide The The Galaxy (the movie). And I can't find a picture of that scene? Wow...

EDIT: Got it myself.

 

[brofkand]

Considering Apple's software quality in the Tim Cook era, I will not be interested in the Apple Car. Their hardware quality needs improvement as well although it's massively improved since they finally admitted the Touch Bar was a stupid gimmick.

 

[pixelpusher15]

I worry less about the computer and more about the other drivers still operating their own vehicle. Just because the computer will have better reflexes than me eventually doesn't mean other people can't cause accidents because of their poor driving. I'm all for self driving cars but if there's still a lot of human drivers out there I at least want an emergency steering wheel, brake, etc lol.

I think you missed what I was saying. My point is that whatever you think you'd need to emergency steer or brake for a computer will eventually be better at all of that than you are. A car swerves at you from the opposite lane? Yeah, a computer should be able to react to that faster, analyze where to move to and the ground conditions, and then move out of the way. Or, what if it can't move? Maybe it deploys some safety mechanism before impact since it knows it's coming? Whatever you think you can do, a computer can do faster. It just needs the necessary inputs and programming. In time, this will happen. Like Thanos, it's inevitable.

 

[ipedro]

I’m gen z and I don’t agree with you.

That’s ok. There were plenty of slow folks who laughed at the iPod announcement and are now typing laughing emojis on their iPhones, its direct successor.

“It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.” — Steve Jobs

 

[killr_b]

Why does it have wheels? The literal oldest technology in the world...
sigh, Apple can't design anymore

 

[terrapin_nation]

No steering wheel? 🤣 What if you really need it for emergency? Watch the Twister movie.

Initiate Gyroscopic Control Override utilizing the gyroscope, compass, and other various components found within your Apple iPhone.

 

[terrapin_nation]

It’s not a car as we know it. It’s a service.

To understand what Apple is aiming for, we have to wipe clear what we’ve known about cars and look to how the newer generation are using cars — at least in cities. Personal transport is becoming a service. In a world where Uber is ubiquitous, fewer and fewer young people are getting their drivers’ licenses because they can pull out their phone and within 5 minutes there’s a car pulling up, taking them to where they need to go. Those of us who grew up in a car era with the romance of driving one and owning one and washing it in the driveway — we are not the target, unless we want to be. Apple is looking way ahead.

Apple was never in a business position to sell cars. iPhones, iPads, Watches, AirPods and Macs are more expensive than their industry counterparts but they still fall within the price accessibility of a large enough portion of users that Apple can make a business out of it. The same is not true for cars. A car is already very expensive, add the Apple tax and only wealthy folks would be able to afford it. Apple is not in the rich customer exclusivity niche.

Apple is getting into this sector because they must, in order to compete. It’s no secret that Google is doing the same and they cannot allow themselves to be in a position where Google or other third parties control one of the largest services that could then dictate how Apple interacts with it.

These are going to be more like Apple Pods, than cars in the traditional sense of the word. You’ll tap your watch and a Pod will show up, take you to where you need to go and then pick up the next passenger. No driver, no user steering, all Apple experience inside.

There will always be cars that we drive ourselves and Apple seems to be doubling down on partnering with other manufacturers to bring their experience into those vehicles. But what Apple is releasing themselves, is leaping over that industry and into something completely new.

I think you nailed it. This is going to be a Car/Transportation as a Service.

 

[TheRealTVGuy]

No one in their right mind is going to get into a vehicle they cannot manually control if necessary

I disagree with this. "The Las Vegas Monorail carries nearly 5 million passengers a year" (https://www.lvmonorail.com/vegas-taxi-alternative/). People board airplanes everyday that are controlled for a majority of the flight by computers. People take taxis everyday where they sit in the back seat. Hundreds of thousands of people strap themselves into roller coasters every year that they have no control of, yet sensors and computers do.

And before any lame argument about, "Well, in each of those scenarios humans are monitoring those vehicles and are ready to step in at a moment's notice..." I would argue that Apple's alleged vehicle would probably contain some sort of E-Stop system that would allow riders to "stop the ride."

 

[name99]

It’s not a car as we know it. It’s a service.

To understand what Apple is aiming for, we have to wipe clear what we’ve known about cars and look to how the newer generation are using cars — at least in cities. Personal transport is becoming a service. In a world where Uber is ubiquitous, fewer and fewer young people are getting their drivers’ licenses because they can pull out their phone and within 5 minutes there’s a car pulling up, taking them to where they need to go. Those of us who grew up in a car era with the romance of driving one and owning one and washing it in the driveway — we are not the target, unless we want to be. Apple is looking way ahead.

Apple was never in a business position to sell cars. iPhones, iPads, Watches, AirPods and Macs are more expensive than their industry counterparts but they still fall within the price accessibility of a large enough portion of users that Apple can make a business out of it. The same is not true for cars. A car is already very expensive, add the Apple tax and only wealthy folks would be able to afford it. Apple is not in the rich customer exclusivity niche.

Apple is getting into this sector because they must, in order to compete. It’s no secret that Google is doing the same and they cannot allow themselves to be in a position where Google or other third parties control one of the largest services that could then dictate how Apple interacts with it.

These are going to be more like Apple Pods, than cars in the traditional sense of the word. You’ll tap your watch and a Pod will show up, take you to where you need to go and then pick up the next passenger. No driver, no user steering, all Apple experience inside.

There will always be cars that we drive ourselves and Apple seems to be doubling down on partnering with other manufacturers to bring their experience into those vehicles. But what Apple is releasing themselves, is leaping over that industry and into something completely new.

Perhaps you're right. Certainly no traditional driving mechanism seems to me a bridge too far for something that people will *buy*. Paying $100K for something that *may* work well -- or may be hockey puck 2.0 -- is a pretty extreme ask.

But what sort of wait times are we expecting? This talk of "fewer and fewer young people owning cars" strikes me as deluded bubble nonsense. Young people don't own cars because they have fsckall responsibilities; but the rest of us, on timetables and with kids, own cars, at least in part, because we can't take the chance that today Uber is over-extended and it will take 45 min before the ride arrives.

Apple may have a very slow burn planned here (much slower than Apple TV), but a service that works well(?) in Manhattan, SF, and London, and expands to the rest of the world even slower than Apple Maps rollouts, seems to me unlikely to be of interest to most people.

 

[Scott Baret]

Man, Ive’s departure is one of the best things to happen to Apple in the last years. He was instrumental in the early stages, but once the technology matured he was a menace with his style-over-function approach.

Definitely agree. He also got really stale in his designs. From a distance, a current MacBook looks no different than a 2001 PowerBook except it's a lot thinner.

Then there were the times he tried to be creative but failed completely, like the trash can Mac Pro.

I'm glad they have since brought back color, but it's time to make laptops creative again.

 

[Pmperry]

This sounds a lot like my Ioniq 5, except I have a steering wheel. 😊