Apple Car Development Reportedly Stalls as Apple Implements Hiring Freeze

[Kabeyun]

apple went from a company that was creating things that simplified our life (ipod, itunes, iphone, ipad) to things that might look pretty but most don't actually need (apple tv, watch, car). this brand has lost its core focus and it's a shame.

I'm not sure how those two categories are supposed to be either mutually exclusive or revealing of failure. (We need an iPod?)

Chillax, folks. The sky's not falling just yet. Don't forget this famous situation (from Wired):

It was a late morning in the fall of 2006. Almost a year earlier, Steve Jobs had tasked about 200 of Apple's top engineers with creating the iPhone. Yet here, in Apple's boardroom, it was clear that the prototype was still a disaster. It wasn't just buggy, it flat-out didn't work. The phone dropped calls constantly, the battery stopped charging before it was full, data and applications routinely became corrupted and unusable. The list of problems seemed endless. At the end of the demo, Jobs fixed the dozen or so people in the room with a level stare and said, "We don't have a product yet."
​

If memory serves, iPhone turned out just fine. We'll see what happens here.

 

[derbladerunner]

I think the problem is Apple is moving way too slow/late on this. Anything new Apple could have brought to the table, Tesla will have already delivered a few years beforehand.

Tesla could be bankrupt by the time Apple sells its first car model. Look at Tesla's financial numbers and debt levels in detail (the GAAP numbers, not just non-GAAP, for those of you into finances).

Tesla needed tons of fresh money since the IPO to keep going. Completing the Model3 project and the battery factory will require more billions (again). If we enter a recession, getting new money isn't that easy, credit markets can turn sour quickly.

Entering the car sector is very tricky in general - the list of casualties is long (Fisker, DeLorean, Coda...). Tons of capital and long lead times, designing a car platform takes years.

With all the billions raised over the past decade Tesla only shipped 50k cars in 2015. That car output is produced by GM, VW and Toyota in a few days.

Ramping up is very hard in the car sector - and it takes tons of money. Apple isn't late. Tesla will at best ship around 500k cars by 2020, that's a fraction (below 1%) of global car output.

Apple shouldn't and needn't rush things. For example, Apple should wisely decide who manufactures the cars for them and where.

PS: Battery technology also keeps getting better (double-digit improvements in terms of price and range) until 2020. Charging infrastructure also is slowly getting better. Another reason not to rush a battery car into the market.
As we all remember: Apple wasn't the first in the MP3 player market, not the first in smartphones and not the first in tablets. It's better to be a little slower but to get it right when the first model is ready (imho the Apple Watch was rushed, no need to repeat that with the car).

 

[jlc1978]

I heard Apple were having problems getting the car to run with only 1gb of memory and 16gb of storage.

Plus no steering wheel since that runs the esthetics of the dash...
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Entering the car sector is very tricky in general - the list of casualties is long (Fisker, DeLorean, Coda...). Tons of capital and long lead times, designing a car platform takes years.

Designing is only one small part. The network needed to maintain them, mechanics trained to fix them, diagnostic gear to develop,a different supply chain than for electronics, etc., all adding to the cost and difficulty. They also have a much longer life cycle than electronics, which means spare parts need to be in the supply chain longer; and you can't simply give someone a new car if the old one isn't fixable because of parts availability, or just customer service, like you can with a computer.

That's not to say they can't pull it off, but, as the article notes, it's a long development cycle compared to their current product development cycle.

It would not surprise me if an offshoot of this effort is better ways to integrate CarPlay not existing manufacturer's vehicles, beyond entertainment but control and management functions, especially for electric vehicles.

 

[MoreAwesomeDanU]

this is the problem with today's apple, they are just jumping on the next cool thing that everyone else is working on, without the market being validated first.

Back in the iphone and ipod days, these were VALIDATED mature markets, with a rather large existing market base. The story goes that they hated the music players back then when they tried to listen to music, and they hated the phone experience when they thought there's so much more to it.

Today, they jump on the next hot thing that everyone else is jumping on. "Everyones making these wearables, LETS DO IT". "oh everyone's making "smart electric cars" at ces, LETS DO IT"

no one hates the experience on their smart watch, in fact most people don't even own one. Sure they made a really cool (i wouldn't even call it good cuz i still have no use for it) smart watch, but the addressable market is still very small, especially when you compare to the amount of people listened to music on portable devices back in 2001

also, if anyone read elon's biography, you would know making a car is REALLY HARD stuff. Its night and day difference than making a computer or a phone. So, good luck to apple.

 

[jonnysods]

Jacket.

The thing on the left is a blacked out car.

Haha give me more credit than that! I knew what the big black car shaped thing in an article about cars was!

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

With all the billions raised over the past decade Tesla only shipped 50k cars in 2015. That car output is produced by GM, VW and Toyota in a few days.

Ramping up is very hard in the car sector - and it takes tons of money. Apple isn't late. Tesla will at best ship around 500k cars by 2020, that's a fraction (below 1%) of global car output.

First off, Tesla is very aggressively ramping up. They sold twice as many cars in the later half of last year as they did in the first half of last year. Further, they sold quite a bit more in Q4 than Q3.

But lets just say they continue selling only 50K Model S and Model Xs per year for the next 5 years even though that's unrealistically low by a magnitude.

Every $5K reduction in price of a car doubles its demand.

The Model 3 will be $35K cheaper than the Model S - the demand will be 2^7 = 128 times greater.

Which means the Model 3 will be moving millions of units annually, starting later this year.

Realistically, the Model S and X will each be moving hundreds of thousands of units annually.

Tesla will deliver the EV revolution before Apple gets close to unveiling their own car. They'll just back away and pretend they were never working on anything.

Apple wasn't the first in the MP3 player market, not the first in smartphones and not the first in tablets. It's better to be a little slower but to get it right when the first model is ready (imho the Apple Watch was rushed, no need to repeat that with the car).

You're correct - they weren't the first, they were the first to get it right.

Similarly, Tesla wasn't the first company to make EV cars. Various companies have made EV cars over the past century. Tesla plays the role of Apple in this story though - Tesla was the first company to make an EV car right.

 

[jimbo1mcm]

I would have bought one, but the headlights are not flush with the front of the car.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

This news has me concerned.

 

[firewood]

apple went from a company that was creating things that simplified our life (ipod, itunes, iphone, ipad) to things that might look pretty but most don't actually need (apple tv, watch, car).

You got the last part almost backwards. People simplified their lives by buying tons of watches, tv's and cars long before Apple even existed to create the Mac and all those iDevices. Few people (except collectors) would want to go back to regularly using tv's and cars of a just a couple decades back. Whoever makes the next step with these products will make todays stuff feel just as primitive and junky as a B&W CRT TV or Ford Pinto.

But you're partially sort of right, millions of people in 3rd world regions really need clean water, food, and medicine (etc.) far more than any of the manufactured products on your above list.

 

[kdarling]

Citing a "previously reliable source" with knowledge of what's going on at Apple, the report suggests a hiring freeze for Project Titan was implemented after a recent progress review conducted by Apple's Chief of Design, Jony Ive. Executives are said to be unhappy with the project's direction, with Jony Ive having "expressed his displeasure."

If so, it sounds like Jon Ive needs to be reined in. He's not a UI designer, and he's not an automobile engineer.

He's probably the last person who should have any input beyond perhaps the basic shape or interior, and maybe even not even those things.

also, if anyone read elon's biography, you would know making a car is REALLY HARD stuff. Its night and day difference than making a computer or a phone. So, good luck to apple.

*grin* Yeah, it'd be pretty difficult to wake up a Chinese auto factory in the middle of the night, and expect millions of cars to be produced in a few days.

Not to mention the extreme difficulty of shipping 100,000 cars at a time on air freighters to meet the typical Apple last minute sales debut

However, I look forward to future leaks in VietNam blogs of unfinished Apple car parts!

 

[Rogifan]

this is the problem with today's apple, they are just jumping on the next cool thing that everyone else is working on, without the market being validated first.

Back in the iphone and ipod days, these were VALIDATED mature markets, with a rather large existing market base. The story goes that they hated the music players back then when they tried to listen to music, and they hated the phone experience when they thought there's so much more to it.

Today, they jump on the next hot thing that everyone else is jumping on. "Everyones making these wearables, LETS DO IT". "oh everyone's making "smart electric cars" at ces, LETS DO IT"

no one hates the experience on their smart watch, in fact most people don't even own one. Sure they made a really cool (i wouldn't even call it good cuz i still have no use for it) smart watch, but the addressable market is still very small, especially when you compare to the amount of people listened to music on portable devices back in 2001

also, if anyone read elon's biography, you would know making a car is REALLY HARD stuff. Its night and day difference than making a computer or a phone. So, good luck to apple.

So Apple should only get involved in something after everyone else has done the hard work? Autonomous vehicles aren't some fad like 3D TVs. It's the future and if Apple wants to be part of it they need to be doing the hard work now.
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It would not surprise me if an offshoot of this effort is better ways to integrate CarPlay not existing manufacturer's vehicles, beyond entertainment but control and management functions, especially for electric vehicles.

How do you do this without being intimately involved in the actual design and engineering of the vehicle? I don't think this is something that's just plug and play. And Apple really doesn't have a history of licensing its operating system to others so that would be just as big of a departure as building an actual car.

 

[danny_w]

...
The Model 3 will be $35K cheaper than the Model S - the demand will be 2^7 = 128 times greater.

Which means the Model 3 will be moving millions of units annually, starting later this year.

You do realize that GM sold only 10 million cars AND trucks of all models worldwide in 2015, and Toyota about the same. And you expect Tesla to be selling in the millions of only one model within the year? You are dreaming.

 

[Tech198]

Apple drove over a rough patch..

Since many products Apple may design may not ever see the light of day.... could this be one of them ?

A Very expensive mistake if true.


On the up-shot, at least they got to work.

 

[duffman9000]

Apple was shocked to learn that it takes a long time to charge an electric car using only one usb-c port.

I think you meant lightning port (lol).

 

[macs4nw]

It was the two Mac Pros as exhaust mufflers that scuppered the project.

You mean all those electric fumes were frying the MPs.....

 

[neutralguy]

First off, Tesla is very aggressively ramping up. They sold twice as many cars in the later half of last year as they did in the first half of last year. Further, they sold quite a bit more in Q4 than Q3.

But lets just say they continue selling only 50K Model S and Model Xs per year for the next 5 years even though that's unrealistically low by a magnitude.

Every $5K reduction in price of a car doubles its demand.

The Model 3 will be $35K cheaper than the Model S - the demand will be 2^7 = 128 times greater.

Which means the Model 3 will be moving millions of units annually, starting later this year.

Realistically, the Model S and X will each be moving hundreds of thousands of units annually.

Please give me some of that you are smoking!

 

[derbladerunner]

The Model 3 will be $35K cheaper than the Model S - the demand will be 2^7 = 128 times greater.

Which means the Model 3 will be moving millions of units annually, starting later this year.

Realistically, the Model S and X will each be moving hundreds of thousands of units annually.

Tesla will deliver the EV revolution before Apple gets close to unveiling their own car. They'll just back away and pretend they were never working on anything.
.

Simply impossible, there is no battery supply to equip so many electric cars anywhere in the world today.

By 2020 (and not before) Tesla can equip around 500k Model3 cars per year with cheaper batteries (these will be coming from their new battery plant in Nevada).

Other car companies have the same issues. Only Nissan, BYD and a few others have the necessary battery (or more precisely battery cell) capacity in-house to build a few ten thousand or at best hundreds of thousands of cars per year (but not millions).

All other car makers need to invest in or pre-order fom a leading battery supplier like LG or Samsung. Ramping up battery capacity for millions of long-range electric cars will take many, many years.

As others discussed, there will be tat least three crucial supply and after-sales/service questions if Apple decides to move forward with the project:

- Battery supply: Who will suppy the batteries for Apple? Which battery technology will they use (there are several options, for example prismatic vs cylindrical formats or current Li-Ion vs next-gen solid-state batteries) ?

- Car Production: Who will produce the actual cars for Apple? (Building high-quality cars is hard, outsourcing is much is easier in consumer electronics. Cars require thousands of unique parts and cabling. Car logistics is also an issue. Currently Apple makes virtually everything in China/Asia. For cars, they will likely need three global production sites in NA, Europe and Asia due to tax and shipping/logistics reasons.)

- Sales/Service: How will Apple sell and service these cars? Will Apple also build its own charging stations? (I imagine a direct sales and support model similar to Tesla adopted by Apple).

These are all hard questions.

 

[MEMSMaster]

I have to seriously question whether Apple has or has ever had a plan to manufacture/sell an actual car. While they have a lot of cash and no lack of arrogance (most of it deserved) within their domain of expertise (small consumer information systems), I have a hard time seeing them being arrogant enough to think they could take on macro scale consumer systems (i.e. automobiles) requiring nationwide (or international) macro scale service and support. I'd think the secret project is more likely heavy investment or involvement in Tesla's next model, or possibly an unannounced partnership with an existing car company (Ford, or possibly GM).

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

You do realize that GM sold only 10 million cars AND trucks of all models worldwide in 2015, and Toyota about the same. And you expect Tesla to be selling in the millions of only one model within the year? You are dreaming.

One year would be insane. I didn't say one year. 2-3 years.

 

[neutralguy]

Simply impossible, there is no battery supply to equip so many electric cars anywhere in the world today.

By 2020 (and not before) Tesla can equip around 500k Model3 cars per year with cheaper batteries (these will be coming from their new battery plant in Nevada).

Other car companies have the same issues. Only Nissan, BYD and a few others have the necessary battery (or more precisely battery cell) capacity in-house to build a few ten thousand or at best hundreds of thousands of cars per year (but not millions).

All other car makers need to invest in or pre-order fom a leading battery supplier like LG or Samsung. As others discussed, there will be three crucial supply and after-sales/service questions if Apple decides to move forward with the project:

- Battery supply: Who will suppy the batteries for Apple? Which battery technology will they use (there are several options, for example prismatic vs cylindrical formats or current Li-Ion vs next-gen solid-state batteries) ?

- Car Production: Who will produce the actual cars for Apple? (Building high-quality cars is hard, outsourcing much is easier in consumer electronics. Cars require thousands of parts and cabling.)

- Sales/Service: How will Apple sell and service these cars? Will Apple also build their own charging stations? (I imagine a dirct sales and support model similar to Tesla from Apple).

These are all hard questions.

Tesla has same problem about service. Let the cars become few years old, then the fun will begin!
[doublepost=1453772898][/doublepost]W

One year would be insane. I didn't say one year. 2-3 years.

hat he meant is in a year with one model!

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Simply impossible, there is no battery supply to equip so many electric cars anywhere in the world today.

By 2020 (and not before) Tesla can equip around 500k Model3 cars per year with cheaper batteries (these will be coming from their new battery plant in Nevada).

You're referring to Gigafactory 1. Where did you get 2020 from? Everything I've been hearing is 2017-2018.

Gigafactory 2 is expected to have a similar capacity and be built in China, with construction starting as Gigafactory 1 construction finishes up.

The world volume of batteries produced in 2014 was enough to build around 500K Model 3s. I expect that from 2014-2018, Tesla won't be the only one building battery factories. Tesla can buy additional batteries from other companies to make up for what they can't make themselves.

 

[DUCKofD3ATH]

Following the departure of Steve Zadesky, hiring for Apple's "Project Titan" Apple Car is reportedly on hold as Apple executives are not happy with the progress being made on the development of the vehicle, reports AppleInsider.

Citing a "previously reliable source" with knowledge of what's going on at Apple, the report suggests a hiring freeze for Project Titan was implemented after a recent progress review conducted by Apple's Chief of Design, Jony Ive. Executives are said to be unhappy with the project's direction, with Jony Ive having "expressed his displeasure."

AppleInsider's information is in line with a report from The Wall Street Journal that covered the departure of Steve Zadesky, Apple's VP of Product Design. Zadesky was rumored to be in leading the development of Apple's rumored electric vehicle, hiring hundreds of employees to work on the project.

While Zadesky's departure is said to be due to personal reasons, The Wall Street Journal suggested there's tension on the Apple Car team, leading to difficulties establishing clear goals for the project. Apple executives have reportedly urged the team to try to meet ambitious deadlines, which some employees feel are unattainable.

Apple has hired hundreds of employees to work on its rumored electric car project, recruiting talent from companies like Ford, Tesla, GM, Samsung, and NVIDIA. Apple may be aiming to hold off on making additional hires until a new leader for the project can be established.

Rumors have suggested Apple is aiming to have its final engineering specifications for the Apple Car completed by 2019 or 2020, but its internal issues could potentially result in delays.

Article Link: Apple Car Development Reportedly Stalls as Apple Implements Hiring Freeze

It's ridiculous that Apple is building an electric car when batteries are so inadequate.

All-electrics can't be marketed nationwide because most of the country has seasons (you know: cold winters and hot summers). Air conditioning and heating alone will suck away the range on electrics.

 

[MoreAwesomeDanU]

So Apple should only get involved in something after everyone else has done the hard work? Autonomous vehicles aren't some fad like 3D TVs. It's the future and if Apple wants to be part of it they need to be doing the hard work now.

I'm not saying what apple should do. Just drawing similarities among their past successes, and where their strength lies. There are still a TON of kinks to be worked out in autonomous cars. At this point, I would say its a little closer to reality than we ever got with flying cars, but that's not saying much.

This whole future of autonomous cars and end of ownership of vehicles are still at its infancy, more of a pipe dream than anything else.

Its like if apple tried to build all touch screen phone in the 1990s. Or if they tried to build a portable music player before the sony disc man was invented.

They are good at putting different pieces of the puzzle together, and building an extremely polished product with great user experience.

Now imagine a electric car with short battery range and limited capabilities with its autonomous software (pretty much where the industry is today), i wouldn't get it no matter how many apple logo they slap on there. BTW, that is pretty much what they are doing with the apple watch today, and look at how far that have taken off.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

What he meant is in a year with one model!

Oh. That's not at all insane. Look at Apple and compare them to every other phone manufacturer (especially pre-iPhone).

The iPhone blows way ahead when you look at top selling phone models because Apple doesn't make 30 different phone models. They make just 5, and only 2 are current.

Same with their computers. The MacBook Pro blows away any other specific computer model because Apple doesn't make hundreds of models like Lenovo, HP, and Dell do. Apple makes just 6 different models of computer, each one with a pretty distinct purpose.

Similarly, Tesla will have just 3 car models. The S, the X, and the 3. Each one will perfectly fit its target market. None of the hundreds of variants ******** that other companies do.

Pick the model you're releasing and go it 100%. Don't make dozens of prototypes then have your customer pick which one to buy.

 

[Aston441]

Tesla could be bankrupt by the time Apple sells its first car model. Look at Tesla's financial numbers and debt levels in detail (the GAAP numbers, not just non-GAAP, for those of you into finances).

Tesla needed tons of fresh money since the IPO to keep going. Completing the Model3 project and the battery factory will require more billions (again). If we enter a recession, getting new money isn't that easy, credit markets can turn sour quickly.

Entering the car sector is very tricky in general - the list of casualties is long (Fisker, DeLorean, Coda...). Tons of capital and long lead times, designing a car platform takes years.

With all the billions raised over the past decade Tesla only shipped 50k cars in 2015. That car output is produced by GM, VW and Toyota in a few days.

Ramping up is very hard in the car sector - and it takes tons of money. Apple isn't late. Tesla will at best ship around 500k cars by 2020, that's a fraction (below 1%) of global car output.

Apple shouldn't and needn't rush things. For example, Apple should wisely decide who manufactures the cars for them and where.

PS: Battery technology also keeps getting better (double-digit improvements in terms of price and range) until 2020. Charging infrastructure also is slowly getting better. Another reason not to rush a battery car into the market.
As we all remember: Apple wasn't the first in the MP3 player market, not the first in smartphones and not the first in tablets. It's better to be a little slower but to get it right when the first model is ready (imho the Apple Watch was rushed, no need to repeat that with the car).

You get it. Except the list of casualties isn't just long, it is HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of car manufacturers have gone out of business in the last 130 years. Making a modern automobile requires expertise that is wide, and deep, and spans generations and thousands and thousands of people, yet even then it can be a piece of junk when held up against the competition. People that love automobiles, who are drivers and mechanics, understand the expertise and brilliance that can go into the design of a single weld, and that the design and implementation of that weld took over 100 years to figure out. And then you need an army of lawyers to comply with the hundreds of thousands of worldwide regulations.

It's absolutely laughable that anyone thinks anyone with a great idea can just jump into the car market and create a company that can keep churning out great products decade after decade. Maybe 1 or 2 hits, but decade after decade is something that no NEW company has been able to do since World War II. Not a single one. In 70 years. Lotus maybe.


I'll tell you why this guy got fired. It's because Jony Ive got out of his Porsche, hopped into the new Apple prototype, and was DISGUSTED.

Jony Ive wants to build a Porsche. But Apple has no idea, and never will have any idea, how to build a Porsche. The only way Apple will ever build a Porsche, is if they buy Porsche, or have Porsche build the Apple Car.


ETA: This is what Automotive perfection and expertise looks like:

They company that can do this, can outbuild any car Apple can EVER come up with, for the next 100 years, software and self driving be damned. Apple is like a little child making zoom zoom noises in her pedal car compared to the true giants of auto manufacturing, design, racing, and construction.