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I had been specifically referring to the early days of the iPhone when people were forced/pushed to use AT&T with 2 year contracts. Verizon didn't officially start selling the iPhone until 2011 and T-Mobile didn't start until 2013. By then, the 2 year contracts were optional.

Compared to those early days (when Jobs was CEO), iPhone customers today (with Cook as CEO) have far more purchase, carrier, contract, financing, etc. options and flexibility even with the recent discontinuation of the Apple Card 0% SIM-free phone offer. Given that, I feel some of the criticisms of Cook/Apple have been excessively harsh.
Jobs went to AT&T because they were the only ones who were willing to cave to Job's demands. It's a situation not unlike the Apple Card/Goldman Sachs deal... Apple tends to run roughshod over the companies with whom they partner, demanding their way. AT&T paid the price for Jobs' demands, much like GS is paying for the Apple Card deal. In the end, it's the customer/consumer that suffers.

Not every that glitters is gold, my friend.
 
I had been specifically referring to the early days of the iPhone when people were forced/pushed to use AT&T with 2 year contracts. Verizon didn't officially start selling the iPhone until 2011 and T-Mobile didn't start until 2013. By then, the 2 year contracts were optional.

Compared to those early days (when Jobs was CEO), iPhone customers today (with Cook as CEO) have far more purchase, carrier, contract, financing, etc. options and flexibility even with the recent discontinuation of the Apple Card 0% SIM-free phone offer. Given that, I feel some of the criticisms of Cook/Apple have been excessively harsh.
And iPhones cost about 5x more out of pocket than they used to. I remember with the iPhone 6S buying it outright and seeing the benefits and people telling me it’s crazy to spend $800 (with upgrades) on an iPhone. Now, the base model costs that plus taxes or more. And the Pro models cost well over $1000. Funny that everyone is now stuck paying more money than they told me was so stupid.

Always been a first adopter. Bought the original iPhone day one. Used to be so happy with each new iPhone. Anymore, and I just feel more ripped off with each purchase. The problem is taking away things over time. In business we do good things over time, and we do bad things all at once. This is what I think Apple is missing. It’s continually taking stuff away assuming its ecosystem is sticky enough that people will just love Apple products anyways. I think the future of Apple isn’t going to be so bright. As other companies learn to combat Apple’s ecosystem, people will drop the upgrades and eventually leave the ecosystem.

Hardware wise, Apple doesn’t really win. Heck, even my Nothing Phone feels far better and is much nicer to look at than my iPhone. What the difference is right now is I only travel with my Nothing Phone and iPhone. When not traveling, I am using just iPhone. I enjoy everything about the Nothing Phone better as far as the hardware is concerned. It feels better in my hands as it doesn’t have hard edges. The display is symmetrical and so nice with no notch/dynamic island. I actually believe the iPhone 15 will feel a lot like the Nothing Phone with its supposed more rounded corners.

That being said all the little things are so much better on iOS software. My dream iPhone is take the Samsung Ultra and put iOS on it. Sure I want iMessages, I want AirDrop, I want FaceTime, and etc. But the rest of the world has mostly people that can use either phone as they may have an iPhone and not even use iMessages like they do in the US. I used to be confused all the time in Asia, like why would you want to use this third-party app that looks like garbage over iMessages. But I get it. They just didn’t want to get stuck in (or rather pay for) the ecosystem.
 
Jobs went to AT&T because they were the only ones who were willing to cave to Job's demands. It's a situation not unlike the Apple Card/Goldman Sachs deal... Apple tends to run roughshod over the companies with whom they partner, demanding their way. AT&T paid the price for Jobs' demands, much like GS is paying for the Apple Card deal. In the end, it's the customer/consumer that suffers.

Not every that glitters is gold, my friend.

That may be true but customers "suffered" much more as far as the very limited purchase, carrier, etc. options in the early days of the iPhone compared to today and that's even with the Apple Card 0% SIM-free offer no longer available.
 
And iPhones cost about 5x more out of pocket than they used to. I remember with the iPhone 6S buying it outright and seeing the benefits and people telling me it’s crazy to spend $800 (with upgrades) on an iPhone. Now, the base model costs that plus taxes or more. And the Pro models cost well over $1000. Funny that everyone is now stuck paying more money than they told me was so stupid.

5X more is quite an exaggeration and/or is misleading.

When the iPhone first launched (yes, I realized prices were quickly reduced), they were $499 (4GB) and $599 (8GB) with a 2 year AT&T contract. Without a contract requirement, they probably would've been more like $699 and $799 unlocked. Adjusting for inflation, the “unlocked” prices would be equal to around $1,030 and $1,175 in today's dollars. Even the reduced 8GB iPhone price would've been close to $900 "unlocked" in today's dollars.

You can get new unlocked iPhones from Apple today for as little as $429 (SE). The much more capable iPhone 14 lines starts at $829 with larger display, larger battery, and larger storage than the early phones. The 14 Pro line starts at $999 with even more capabilities.
 
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Again, the UK isn’t a developing nation. What would it take to get through to some of you? You need to go travel the real world. Not just the developed countries to see how badly the issue sucks!
Global esim... problem solved (Airalo.com)
 
Regardless of who may have "strong armed" who more between Apple and AT&T, it was iPhone customers that were forced/pushed into 2 year AT&T contracts which was a lot more limiting than what some are criticizing Apple/Cook today for simply no longer offering Apple Card 0% financing on SIM-free phones.
There are a good number of folks that assume that the way the world is now is how it’s always been and any negative changes yield the absolute worst the world has ever seen. :)
 
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AT&T paid the price for Jobs' demands, much like GS is paying for the Apple Card deal. In the end, it's the customer/consumer that suffers.
Cingular paid the price for Jobs’ demands, which, after they acquired AT&T and took on their name, yielded significantly increased marketshare. Such a price to pay :)

And, the consumer suffers because the iPhone would not have existed without that deal and not having an iPhone available (and the leading smartphone tech continuing to be Blackberry) would have been better for the consumer.
 
Cingular paid the price for Jobs’ demands, which, after they acquired AT&T and took on their name, yielded significantly increased marketshare. Such a price to pay :)

And, the consumer suffers because the iPhone would not have existed without that deal and not having an iPhone available (and the leading smartphone tech continuing to be Blackberry) would have been better for the consumer.

The phone was actually released on the AT&T network, as Cingular had rebranded itself as such in early 2007. If AT&T had not caved and given Jobs the farm, Jobs would have been forced to wait for another cellular provider to buckle, or he would have had to climb off his high horse.

BlackBerry was a strong device at the time, but company, but as a company, they could not get out of their own way...

And fewer choices always affects the consumer in a negative way.
 
And when both VZW and T-Mo offered the iPhone, they also required a 2-year contract for the discounted iPhone...

Yep - any carrier offering a subsidized phone required a contract if I remember correctly, with an ETF if you cancelled early - essentially recouping the subsidy.

Sure you could choose to not get a subsidized phone and thus not be under contract, but you didn't save any money on your service by doing so - and effectively were giving free money to the carriers since you were still paying for the subsidy you didn't avail yourself of.

Decoupling the phone and service costs was a win for the consumers.
 
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This is insane. Definitely not getting the new flagship every year anymore. Almost makes the Apple Card worthless too.
 
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The phone was actually released on the AT&T network, as Cingular had rebranded itself as such in early 2007. If AT&T had not caved and given Jobs the farm, Jobs would have been forced to wait for another cellular provider to buckle, or he would have had to climb off his high horse.

BlackBerry was a strong device at the time, but company, but as a company, they could not get out of their own way...
When Steve Jobs started negotiations, it was Cingular he was making the deal with, specifically with a CEO that held him in high regard. The end goal of the deal for the number 2 Cingular was to be number 1. And, given that AT&T IS number 1 in the US, “caving” was the right decision for them (although he description of the actual negotiations were that Apple presented a winning proposition to a friendly CEO). There are several CEO’s that wish they’d had an opportunity to “cave” in the same way. :)

Apple didn’t have an iPhone in hand, they got the deal, then started working in earnest. No up front deal, sight unseen? Then I guess this would be a better world with no iPhone, I suppose? AND, of course, no iPhone derived Android phones either. BUT, there would still be the choice of a lot of incompatible phones tied to carriers with an iron grip of the phones features and ways to transfer data (subscription) and purchase applications (which cost far more than today’s apps do). All around a better world for the customer. For sure.
 
One should only buy phones in full vs financed.

Not necessarily. It can make sense to finance an iPhone at a low rate even if you have more than enough cash available. Some people buy things on credit because the loan interest rate is lower than what they can get in return with the cash.

If someone took $1,000 and put it in an interest-bearing account (or other type of investment) and then financed a $1,000 iPhone for 24 months at 0% APR, they can come out better than if they had paid the full $1,000 up.
 
Not necessarily. It can make sense to finance an iPhone at a low rate even if you have more than enough cash available. Some people buy things on credit because the loan interest rate is lower than what they can get in return with the cash.

If someone took $1,000 and put it in an interest-bearing account (or other type of investment) and then financed a $1,000 iPhone for 24 months at 0% APR, they can come out better than if they had paid the full $1,000 up.
except most do NOT invest the difference. Most can't even come up with 400 for an emergency. Most live on credit to fund a lifestyle beyond their means, including tech gadgets. Too many people live on the buy now pay later mindset and that can easily overextend themselves, even with 0% payments....until you miss one and now you do get charged hefty interest rates.

Now if you do finance a $1000 phone, enjoy the 40 or so you would make in "interest" if invested (assuming the markets are favorable) the difference elsewhere. Not worth it to me.

But as with everything, people make their own choices and do what they do.
 
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So if you go with the Apple Card financing you have to confirm your Verizon or provider account correct , if so do you also have to have an upgrade available ?
 
That's not good advice. You always take financing when you are not being penalized i.e. 0% spread out over time. You use other people's money to work for you.
It depends on the person. While some people can act perfectly and remember to make on-time payments and use credit wisely, about 25% of the population fails to do so often through no fault of their own like losing a job. Every business that can will capitalize on these 25% which is how they can afford to do 0% financing.

I travel outside the US often and sometimes it’s just a pain to remember all the bills. I do like it if a company has automatic payments. I also like using certain cards for rewards. I would never carry a balance if the APR was higher than I can earn by investing money. Usually, 0% is a no brainer. But think of the people who lose their job or miss a bill. That 0% turns into high interest rates that seem scandalous quite often. And most of the time it claws back to the origination date of the loan.

Also, many people use too much credit that they can’t afford. I would say if you can get 0% financing, can automate the payments, and you have the cash to do it, it’s almost always better to invest the cash and take the free money.

Even AAPL and other big companies, that have massive amounts of cash often offer debt instruments to avoid taxation. This is becoming less attractive as interest rates are rising quickly which means they must pay higher bond yields.

If one doesn’t get the 0% financing, or lower cost than their investments can return, they shouldn’t pay ridiculous fees unless they can leverage the device in some way. For example, maybe one needs an iPhone specifically for business and they need the newest version for some feature (SOS satellite service?), if that iPhone can make them more money than the cost of financing, and they don’t have the money it may be worth the risk.

In general, I think of one doesn’t have the money, they shouldn’t buy whatever it is they want. Because things don’t buy our happiness. But using free money can definitely benefit some.

And some people need to just pay the cash, as they feel happy not owing anyone. I know several people like this, and it’s not wrong. Many people don’t want the feeling or burden of debt. They’re not wrong. If you want, pay the cash and don’t owe anyone.

If one lives paycheck to paycheck, don’t finance anything, as one needs an emergency fund to pay their bills in case something bad happens.

The great thing is in life we all have choices. Many of these choices can lead to wealth or despair. The most important thing for all of us is to understand our situation and play life by our rules and moral compass rather than hard facts of you should always do something because someone said so online.
 
I do like it if a company has automatic payments. I also like using certain cards for rewards. I would never carry a balance if the APR was higher than I can earn by investing money. Usually, 0% is a no brainer. But think of the people who lose their job or miss a bill. That 0% turns into high interest rates that seem scandalous quite often. And most of the time it claws back to the origination date of the loan.
That's pretty much how I do things as well. I have all my 0% payment plans setup with monthly auto-pay.
 
except most do NOT invest the difference. Most can't even come up with 400 for an emergency. Most live on credit to fund a lifestyle beyond their means, including tech gadgets. Too many people live on the buy now pay later mindset and that can easily overextend themselves, even with 0% payments....until you miss one and now you do get charged hefty interest rates.

Now if you do finance a $1000 phone, enjoy the 40 or so you would make in "interest" if invested (assuming the markets are favorable) the difference elsewhere. Not worth it to me.

But as with everything, people make their own choices and do what they do.

Which is why I said not necessarily.

It's perfectly reasonable for someone to consider financing at a low rate like 0% even if they have the money available but I realize that's not possible for everybody.
 
except most do NOT invest the difference. Most can't even come up with 400 for an emergency.

Folks in that situation really ought to attend to building their emergency fund instead of making payments on expensive brand new iphones.

Those who have adequate reserves to weather a layoff or other adverse event may as well avail themselves of free financing in lieu of taking the money out of savings/investments and losing the income the funds would generate.
 
I realize that's not possible for everybody.
I think it's possible for most people to develop their financial discipline and reduce their spending to sufficiently less than their income to allow building an appropriate emergency fund.

May not be easy, and it'd likely require lifestyle changes to get there, but it's possible for most of those who want it badly enough.

Of course, I tend to have an optimistic/positive view of people's abilities to achieve difficult goals if they'll put in the work to achieve them.
 
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