Apple Card Named Best in Customer Satisfaction for Fourth Year

[iMac The Knife]

Plus: you pay fees and a higher price on whatever you buy because the shop has to cover the expenses to the credit card company. The only winner is the credit card companies.

Hmmmmm, I've noticed no difference in prices between my debt and credit card purchases. If I buy a bottle of water at the gas station with my debit card, it is $1.59. If I buy it with my Amex Gold card, it is $1.59. This is just one example, but I could give you hundreds. If you are paying higher prices for goods just because you use a credit card, you should look into paying in cash. But, then you wouldn't get any purchase protection beyond the standard return policy, and you wouldn't get an extended warranty unless you pay for one separately. I'm not saying some places don't charge more for credit card transaction fees, but I've never seen it happen enough to where I would want to ditch my Amex card. It rarely happens in my use case.

 

[ninecows]

Hmmmmm, I've noticed no difference in prices between my debt and credit card purchases. If I buy a bottle of water at the gas station with my debit card, it is $1.59. If I buy it with my Amex Gold card, it is $1.59. This is just one example, but I could give you hundreds. If you are paying higher prices for goods just because you use a credit card, you should look into paying in cash. But, then you wouldn't get any purchase protection beyond the standard return policy, and you wouldn't get an extended warranty unless you pay for one separately. I'm not saying some places don't charge more for credit card transaction fees, but I've never seen it happen enough to where I would want to ditch my Amex card. It rarely happens in my use case.

How do you think credit card companies earn money? It’s not only by hitting those who missed the payment with some hard interest.

It cost money for the owner of the shop to receive a payment with credit card. So he will have to put that expense on you somehow. Just because you don’t see it as a separate part on the receipt doesn’t mean you don’t pay it. All his customers help paying it regardless of how they pay.

If he didn’t had to pay those fees he might be able to sell that bottle of water for $1.50.

But as it is now, you’re being fed with your own tail if you pay with credit card and get some cash-back. Those who pay cash are not being fed. They just loose their tail.

 

[iMac The Knife]

How do you think credit card companies earn money? It’s not only by hitting those who missed the payment with some hard interest.

It cost money for the owner of the shop to receive a payment with credit card. So he will have to put that expense on you somehow. Just because you don’t see it as a separate part on the receipt doesn’t mean you don’t pay it. All his customers help paying it regardless of how they pay.

If he didn’t had to pay those fees he might be able to sell that bottle of water for $1.50.

Then, please tell me the disadvantage to using my credit card, when I pay the exact same price out the door whether I use my Amex Gold or my Amex debit card. That was your argument, you pay more in fees. What fees? I realize credit card companies make money off of people, but that doesn't mean they make the same amount of money off everyone. And again, I'm not saying I don't pay a little more here and there, but when I get over $1,000 back each year in rewards, I fail to see how it is detrimental for me to have and use my Amex Gold card. This is on top of the other benefits I've already mentioned a few times.

 

[ninecows]

Then, please tell me the disadvantage to using my credit card, when I pay the exact same price out the door whether I use my Amex Gold or my Amex debit card. That was your argument, you pay more in fees. What fees? I realize credit card companies make money off of people, but that doesn't mean they make the same amount of money off everyone. And again, I'm not saying I don't pay a little more here and there, but when I get over $1,000 back each year in rewards, I fail to see how it is detrimental for me to have and use my Amex Gold card. This is on top of the other benefits I've already mentioned a few times.

No disadvantages for you as such. You alone cannot change this system so you might as well eat your tail that’s offered to you. But in general I think that whole system is rigged and the only winners are those with shares in credit card companies.

You think you’re getting $1000 in rewards every year, while in fact you and every other customer are probably paying $1100 extra.

 

[mdatwood]

Reread. They’re coupon cards. It takes effort and time to make sure you make back the fees.

It’s still not a fair comparison either. They’re two completely different products. Compare the AppleCard to the Amex Blue Cash Back. It also has no annual fee and is an actual credit card and not a charge back card.

I'm as lazy as it comes with CCs and I easily make the fee worth it on my Venture X. Heck, the fee is $395 and they give a $300 travel credit each year as soon as you pay. At that point Priority Pass covers the rest, and I have spent zero effort. Anyone who travels > 2x/year should investigate some type of travel card.

As far as where does the money come from? It's people who don't pay off their balances and merchant fees. I'm fine if the game is changed for all, but until then I'm happy to play.

 

[iMac The Knife]

No disadvantages for you as such. You alone cannot change this system so you might as well eat your tail that’s offered to you. But in general I think that whole system is rigged and the only winners are those with shares in credit card companies.

You think you’re getting $1000 in rewards every year, while in fact you and every other customer are probably paying $1100 extra.

I agree with you completely that the system is rigged. I also think a lot of people don't use their cards to their full advantage.

 

[trip1ex]

Amex points are worth less than other cards. Maybe not for travel...I forget but definitely for gift cards or applying points to the balance.

 

[webkit]

But in general I think that whole system is rigged and the only winners are those with shares in credit card companies.

How would you like to see the credit card industry operate? What changes would you make to the system so that is it less "rigged" yet still appropriately benefits consumers, merchants and card companies/networks?

 

[ninecows]

How would you like to see the credit card industry operate? What changes would you make to the system so that is it less "rigged" yet still appropriately benefits consumers, merchants and card companies/networks?

You pay with a debit card. You only buy stuff you can afford or where you can at least put down some security (like the mortgage for your house). Transaction of money is a non profit thing. The bank has the responsibility to protect their customers against fraud within reasonable limits. Manufacturers are held responsible for not selling you crap. If your tv stops working within e.g. 2 years they have to give you a new unless they can prove that you dipped in your pool or something ridiculously.

But yes. Card companies will not make a lot of money on this. Neither should they IMHO. The only way for them to make a profit is by you and me giving them money. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

Basic stuff we all need should be non/low profit. Water, electricity, transactions, health care etc.

 

[pianophile]

Amex is good if a person flies Delta a lot.

Bingo. ✈️

 

[mdatwood]

But yes. Card companies will not make a lot of money on this. Neither should they IMHO. The only way for them to make a profit is by you and me giving them money. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

Don't mistake it's only card companies who make money with CCs - merchants also greatly benefit. That's why BNPL took off - it let people buy more than they planned.

 

[Chazak]

Make It available outside of the US

Perhaps if regulation for banking and finance in the EU were not so onerous it would be available. The risks for card issuers are significantly higher.

 

[Chazak]

No disadvantages for you as such. You alone cannot change this system so you might as well eat your tail that’s offered to you. But in general I think that whole system is rigged and the only winners are those with shares in credit card companies.

You think you’re getting $1000 in rewards every year, while in fact you and every other customer are probably paying $1100 extra.

I would like it if you would explain why a business offering credit or charge privileges to a consumer should not make money in the amount the market will bear. The answer is fairly simple - only spend money you actually have and stop electing politicians who protect businesses that have predatory policies and stop allowing them to take campaign and lobbying money to tilt the playing field in their favor. Take the money out of running for office and add term limits. Until you do that the rest is a joke.

You are right that most people don't realize they are funding the perks and cash back they receive. However, if person is willing to do the research and spend time on it, the system can be legally played to maximize benefits and provide a net gain. It is not too difficult to calculate the cost to you and determine if you come out ahead. It doesn't matter what kind of credit card you use, you are going to fund perks and benefits for card holder who have such cards.

 

[webkit]

You pay with a debit card. You only buy stuff you can afford or where you can at least put down some security (like the mortgage for your house). Transaction of money is a non profit thing. The bank has the responsibility to protect their customers against fraud within reasonable limits. Manufacturers are held responsible for not selling you crap. If your tv stops working within e.g. 2 years they have to give you a new unless they can prove that you dipped in your pool or something ridiculously.

But yes. Card companies will not make a lot of money on this. Neither should they IMHO. The only way for them to make a profit is by you and me giving them money. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

Basic stuff we all need should be non/low profit. Water, electricity, transactions, health care etc.

"Transaction of money" can be a "non profit" thing when physical money/cash is used for the transaction. However, with credit cards (and possibly debit cards) you are paying for a service that can include at a minimum purchase protection, fraud protection and the convenience and security of not having to carry cash or at least large sums of cash around.

There can be other perks with credit cards as well, some of which you aren't necessarily paying (extra) for but are able to take advantage of due to the credit card company's ability to leverage their large customer base to secure discounts and other perks for their users. Things individuals may not be able to get on their own by paying cash or using a debit card.

Anyway, it sounds like your answer to how to fix the credit card system is basically to ban credit cards completely and only allow individuals to buy products/services with cash and/or maybe debit cards. Unfortunately, the economy relies too much on being using credit cards and buying things on time. Consumers need to be more disciplined.

 

[ninecows]

B

"Transaction of money" can be a "non profit" thing when physical money/cash is used for the transaction. However, with credit cards (and possibly debit cards) you are paying for a service that can include at a minimum purchase protection, fraud protection and the convenience and security of not having to carry cash or at least large sums of cash around.

There can be other perks with credit cards as well, some of which you aren't necessarily paying (extra) for but are able to take advantage of due to the credit card company's ability to leverage their large customer base to secure discounts and other perks for their users. Things individuals may not be able to get on their own by paying cash or using a debit card.

Anyway, it sounds like your answer to how to fix the credit card system is basically to ban credit cards completely and only allow individuals to buy products/services with cash and/or maybe debit cards. Unfortunately, the economy relies too much on being using credit cards and buying things on time. Consumers need to be more disciplined.

“Ban” is a very strong word. But making moving other people’s money into a multibillion profit industry is just sick. And I honestly can’t see the benefit unless you’re a shareholder in that industry.

Many European countries don’t do that. They just use debit cards and the law is setup so the bank/merchant has the risk rather the consumer in case of fraud/warranty issues.

 

[webkit]

But making moving other people’s money into a multibillion profit industry is just sick

It's sick to offer an optional service to consumers and make money from it? No one in forced to use a credit card with an annual fee, or a credit card at all as they can choose to use a debit card or potentially pay cash instead. No one is forced to carry a balance.

It’s consumers that need to be more disciplined in how they use credit cards.

 

[ninecows]

It's sick to offer an optional service to consumers and make money from it? No one in forced to use a credit card with an annual fee, or a credit card at all as they can choose to use a debit card or potentially pay cash instead. No one is forced to carry a balance.

It’s consumers that need to be more disciplined in how they use credit cards.

Maybe their whole business case is based on making people think that they’re getting all these perks for free. I’m basically just trying to show people that they’re being fed with their own tail.

What do you think would happen if all consumers were as disciplined as I assume you are? They would still want to make a profit so some indirect/direct fees would go up.

 

[webkit]

Maybe their whole business case is based on making people think that they’re getting all these perks for free. I’m basically just trying to show people that they’re being fed with their own tail.

I think more people are aware of how credit cards "work" (as far as perks, charges, etc.) than you may think.

What do you think would happen if all consumers were as disciplined as I assume you are? They would still want to make a profit so some indirect/direct fees would go up.

Yes, they'd still want to make profits but can't be guaranteed the same type or level of profits if consumer behavior dramatically changed.