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Apple Care Over? Sorry bud...

I have a Nov. 2007 17" MBP, with all the options. Cost over $3000, which isn't as much as a loaded Pro, but it ain't cheap. Last month it died because of the nVidia manufacturing defect. Apple replaced the board. Now, in all likelihood, in 2 more years (1 year outside of my applecare) it will die again, for the same reason. Am I annoyed? Yep. Will I insist that Apple solve the problem for free? Nope.

The way I look at it, Apple and I already agreed on the dividing line between "it's apple's problem" and "it's my problem." Did I hope to get more than 4 years out of my purchase? Yep (that was my first mac, though, so I was used to getting 2 years out of my crappy windows machines). Do I think I have a right to demand it? Nope.
 
keysersoze said:
I agree. It's really that easy. Then we won't have to hear any more ranting :p
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its 2:15 pm nyc time and my sched w an apple "genius" is in 2 hours.
lets see if it is (hopefully) the power supply.

it's simply amazing the responses of "well if i was in your situation and my warranty had expired I would just buy a new machine."

hopefully you dont apply this mentality to other facets of your career/lives.

california:

didn't think it was the numbers RANGING from G8539xxxxxx - G8608xxxxxx, only EITHER.

apple will honor this tho out of warranty?

thanks regardless
 
If you're strapped for cash...

Mac of All Trades sells used G5's for a pretty reasonable price (several right now under $800). Not a perfect solution, but you can throw your existing drive in and boot right up without any changes needed.
 
umlaaat said:
it's simply amazing the responses of "well if i was in your situation and my warranty had expired I would just buy a new machine."
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I'm simply surprised you bought a three year warranty, and then are surprised that your machine is only under warranty for three years. I don't go to McDonalds, buy a single cheeseburger, and then complain loudly that I didn't get a double. You know what you were buying and you bought it.

If it's the power supply they'll replace it for free. That's a pretty damn good deal for the age of the machine, honestly.
 
umlaaat said:
hopefully you dont apply this mentality to other facets of your career/lives.
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I try to apply this mentality to all facets of my career/life. The mentality being that when I enter into a contract with someone (here the contract being that I give Apple money, they give me a computer and promise to fix it for 3 years), I honor the terms of the contract, and don't try to change the terms of the contract four years after the fact.
 
umlaaat said:
it's simply amazing the responses of "well if i was in your situation and my warranty had expired I would just buy a new machine."

hopefully you dont apply this mentality to other facets of your career/lives.
Click to expand...




Dude,for me it is a simple miracle that you have somehow made through life with you point of view and attitude. Let alone your business life.
People here have gone to great lengths trying to explain to you certain realities of computers (or purchased machinery in general) but you just dont seem to grasp the concept.
The worst part is that you try to portray as being "professional".
No self respecting professional of any genre would bother to got through that kind of whinefest.

-Things break.Invariably.It is the law of entrophy.
During warranty if you are lucky, usually out of it.
But if you are lucky,you can talk into getting a replacement,refund or at least discount.It happens to the 5$ rolex that you bought from Tihuana or your 500.000$ maserati. If you have crappy luck,the rolex can outlast your maserati. ***** happens.


But professionally,it shouldnt happen that you get caught you pants down,being unable to work.Never.Ever.
Never should you not have a backup plan that would you allow working.

It is like you would have bought that said papermill for 40mil, churned money for several years after that (3.5billon?) , and suddenly a part of it would crap out.
And you would not be prepared (saved,prepared loans,preplanned investment for a new machine) for the inevidable incident.
In any way.
That is what is mind boggling.
 
Macinposh said:
But professionally,it shouldnt happen that you get caught you pants down,being unable to work.Never.Ever.
Never should you not have a backup plan that would you allow working.
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: thumbsup :

As a professional, I always have two computers in case one goes down, with constant backups over my home network and offsite. I have my Mac Pro and my Macbook Pro at home. In case one goes down I can go to the other. I've been caught too many times with my pants down as a just-laptop user.

At work it's even worse, actually. I have four machines, two of them do the exact same thing, I just keep one as a backup in case a software update screws something up, or in case something else happens. Hell, they both have the same files, the only difference is one runs 10.6 and one runs 10.5.

(And yes, this did pay off because 10.6 did break some of my workflow. So while I upgrade my workflow on my 10.6 machine I can still go back to my 10.5 machine.)

Any professional worth his salt knows machines die. Especially under the strain professionals usually put on their gear.

I'm pretty close to buying insurance to cover accidental damage and other damage for my home gear, actually.
 
umlaaat said:
it's simply amazing the responses of "well if i was in your situation and my warranty had expired I would just buy a new machine."
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Ok, then how about this.

Well, WHEN I WAS in your situation and my 3 1/2 year old machine dual 1.8 G5 (bought Jan 2005, died Jul 2008) wouldn't start up anymore, I brought it in to an apple authorized service centre and payed $50 for them to diagnose the problem. Turned out it was the second processor that had become defective. So I had the choice to pay $800 for a new processor, buy a new machine or remove the second processor and live with a single 1.8 G5.

Well I went with the single 1.8 option for about 6 months and then bought this new machine. Why? Because I was due for a new system anyway. Technology had changed so much in the past 4 years that it made sense to get a new machine. The G5 couldn't play HD youtube videos at more than 2 FPS for instance, and it would struggle when there were more than 3 or 4 flash ads on a webpage.

I'm about to ship the computer off to someone else now though, so I am reconsidering buying a second 1.8 processor since I found one for 100USD, and it really does make a difference (can barely play low quality youtube videos with 1 cpu).

The CPU dieing after 3.5 years is probably due to a design flaw, but when it's out of warranty it's out of warranty.
 
Hate to say this, but in my experience as an owner of about seven Powermac G5s, the issue is usually that the processor has become unseated or the powersupply blows or the liquid cooling thing happens.

The unseated processor has to do with the Chinese manufacturing process and yes an ungodly amount of thermal paste.

The powersupply is just a powersupply.

Overall, I have had GREAT luck with my G5s and All of them run perfectly at the moment. Even my single 1.8ghz from 2003.

The problem I have encountered is the lack of skilled diagnosticians.

Geniuses at the Apple Store are usually dumber than me.

Get an Apple Tech you can trust for your G5, someone who will really explain exactly what is going on with your machine.

They are great machines.

The OP needs to call Apple because his power supply is under extended warranty. My advice would be to take it to a real Apple Tech, not a Genius.
 
California said:
The problem I have encountered is the lack of skilled diagnosticians.

Geniuses at the Apple Store are usually dumber than me.
Click to expand...

Agree.

But Apple is doing the right thing here IMO - at least for them... On average it's much cheaper to replace "probable" components than it is to train the techs and or pay their wage while they diagnose a system properly.
 
Abidubi said:
Ok, then how about this.

Well, WHEN I WAS in your situation and my 3 1/2 year old machine dual 1.8 G5 (bought Jan 2005, died Jul 2008) wouldn't start up anymore, I brought it in to an apple authorized service centre and payed $50 for them to diagnose the problem. Turned out it was the second processor that had become defective. So I had the choice to pay $800 for a new processor, buy a new machine or remove the second processor and live with a single 1.8 G5.

Well I went with the single 1.8 option for about 6 months and then bought this new machine. Why? Because I was due for a new system anyway. Technology had changed so much in the past 4 years that it made sense to get a new machine. The G5 couldn't play HD youtube videos at more than 2 FPS for instance, and it would struggle when there were more than 3 or 4 flash ads on a webpage.

I'm about to ship the computer off to someone else now though, so I am reconsidering buying a second 1.8 processor since I found one for 100USD, and it really does make a difference (can barely play low quality youtube videos with 1 cpu).

The CPU dieing after 3.5 years is probably due to a design flaw, but when it's out of warranty it's out of warranty.
Click to expand...

This supports what I have told the OP before. BTW running on single CPU is not possible for CPU >1,8 GHz. So it is no solution for the OP.
 
California said:
Hate to say this, but in my experience as an owner of about seven Powermac G5s, the issue is usually that the processor has become unseated or the powersupply blows or the liquid cooling thing happens.

The unseated processor has to do with the Chinese manufacturing process and yes an ungodly amount of thermal paste.

The powersupply is just a powersupply.

Overall, I have had GREAT luck with my G5s and All of them run perfectly at the moment. Even my single 1.8ghz from 2003.

The problem I have encountered is the lack of skilled diagnosticians.

Geniuses at the Apple Store are usually dumber than me.

Get an Apple Tech you can trust for your G5, someone who will really explain exactly what is going on with your machine.

They are great machines.

The OP needs to call Apple because his power supply is under extended warranty. My advice would be to take it to a real Apple Tech, not a Genius.
Click to expand...


so having come back from the 5th ave store (my god apples making a lot of $$$) and having had a genius look at it, he said it might be the dust which, imo, there wasn't really too much of, and/or the logic board ($1,913) and/or the processors ($943). and $135 for the labour.

unfortunatley for me he can't tell me if its either/both unless i buy said item and have him install it.

I guess they don't have the means to test it unless customer uses US currency as a medium.

To his credit he took it in the back, vaccumed it out and upon replugging the power and.... nothing happened.

according to the tech standing next to him, it couldn't be the power supply bc it wouldn't turn on if that was the case.

also,

to the people that have the "let me drop the soap so you can get a better look" attitude;

i deal with some corrupt, greedy, crooked people within the music business. a large chunk of the foundation is based on an immoral, dont-give-a-f-unless-you-can-do-something-for-me attitude that is draining at best.
in order for you to get a somewhat fair share or your hard work, you've got to fight for it and make backdoors when there are none.
this in conjunction with my upbringing in nyc has taught me to fight what I think is wrong.
not trying to say i'm some tuff dude, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna let this go.

and yes, this does go above "complaining' about it in some internet forum.



california:

how does one go about reseating the processors?
 
umlaaat said:
i deal with some corrupt, greedy, crooked people within the music business. a large chunk of the foundation is based on an immoral, dont-give-a-f-unless-you-can-do-something-for-me attitude that is draining at best.
in order for you to get a somewhat fair share or your hard work, you've got to fight for it and make backdoors when there are none.
this in conjunction with my upbringing in nyc has taught me to fight what I think is wrong.
not trying to say i'm some tuff dude, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna let this go.
Click to expand...

Huh? Apple was quite honest with you when they said they would take care of your machine for three years. That was the deal and you accepted it. They completely stuck with their end of the bargain.
 
I can see both sides of this issue. I agree with those that say that you had a contract with Apple that ended when Applecare expired. After that, you were on your own. How long after the 3 years were over would have been enough? Four months? 14 months? 16 months is too soon to fail, but 17 months would be OK? If you thought 3 years was not enough time at purchase, then - well I don't know what the alternative was. I also think that any professional has to always be prepared to replace an irreplaceable tool. Too many accidents can happen, even if you are covered by insurance and warranties - accidents that will exclude the tool from coverage can happen.

That said.... I can also sympathize with the desire to get the G5 up and running without spending $1000. I think the best bet is to find an Apple Tech (which is not the same as an Apple Genius). A good tech will be able to diagnose the problem (perhaps charging an hourly rate, but not nearly $1000) and then tell you the problem and how much to fix it. You can then decide if its worth it. My suggestion is to ask this board (perhaps starting a new thread that doesn't lay blame anywhere) for a good tech in your community. Someone will have the name of a good tech. You are a music professional, and have done some wonderful research... but now is the time to find a tech professional. You wouldn't want a tech geek mixing 18 channels would you? (Hope I got that reasonably accurate :) )

You've had your rant, gotten the negative energy off your chest - as it were. Now is the time to find a solution. Find a good tech, and go from there. And then - - start saving for a new system. You know you are going to need it, sooner or later. I shop the refurb store. I give myself time, so that I can wait for a good deal. I'm not made from money either. Good Luck with the repairs. I'd be interested to hear how it goes.
 
One day passed the warranty is still out of warranty.

B*tching about it doesn't help.

My old Mac Mini G4 was out of warranty by 3 weeks long time ago, I called and didn't expect anything and said "I'm willing to pay for the damage" but they still covered it since I asked very nicely and stuff. It was a drive failure which was OBVIOUSLY their manufacturing fault, but I didn't complain that I might have to pay for it.

You paid for a 3-year extension of the warranty service. You cannot whine just because your computer fails after the 3-year term you were promised. They are keeping their words and you're whining that they're true to their words.

It's to a point where your computer isn't supported by Apple's newest OS anymore.... You don't see people crying that their Pentium 2 can't run Vista...
 
snberk103 said:
If you thought 3 years was not enough time at purchase, then - well I don't know what the alternative was.
Click to expand...

You can buy 3rd party warranties to cover issues with the machine.

Again, I don't see what this "fighting the man" business is about when the op got exactly what he bought. Yeah, it sucks, the machine died. What? Did you expect that it was going to work forever? It happens, especially with pro machines.

Heck, the only machines that seem to last forever are the ones turned on once a day and used for ten minutes by some grandma that just wants to check her email. You want to see large failure rates on expensive Apple hardware? Run some XServes. They used to sell you entire replacement part kits when you bought your server. And that's normal for the industry. The more you do on hardware, the more likely it is to fail.

Heck, the XServe ships with what... 3 power supplies just because Apple knows that you're going to be loosing power supplies?

(Edit: It seems they're down to two: http://www.apple.com/xserve/specs.html )
 
goMac said:
Huh? Apple was quite honest with you when they said they would take care of your machine for three years. That was the deal and you accepted it. They completely stuck with their end of the bargain.
Click to expand...

that was not in reference to apple
 
You need to call Apple and talk to an engineer.

I would not be so sure your power supply is not the culprit even if it is getting some power.

You need someone with technical understanding to discuss your case with you.

Spending five grand or whatever the quad plus applecare cost you back in the day is not good enough for the whole thing to blow up.

You also need to have it looked at by a Tech to see if it is the liquid cooling system leaking.

I would never take it to the Apple store. These guys don't know enough that work there. You need to get an engineer on the phone through customer service. The Quad is a great machine and yours needs to be really inspected to see what is wrong. I would ask that Apple replace the power supply first, because this could have triggered some other event.

Also, I forgot to mention, that sometimes G5 towers act very strangely when hard drives are failing.

I had an editor friend with a 2.0ghz dual core (same revision as the Quad, late 2005) with a failing hard drive. He took it to an apple store, they said the logic board was bad, the processors were shot, etc.

Somehow I knew that disc utility was not diagnosing the problem, because it was the original hard drive.

Sure 'nuff. It was a failing hard drive. It was fooling the system. Popped in a new drive and voila, that machine is still working after nearly being declared dead.

You need to find out EXACTLY what is wrong. If you were in California, I'd be happy to help you with some good Apple techs. At the very worst, if your processors are bad but the logic board is good, you could sell the good parts for good money. But get the power supply fixed first and let someone who knows what they are doing give you a proper diagnosis.

Also reseat your ram/new hd/and reseat your video card. That card is also worth good money in the worst case scenario.
 
I was born, bred, and raised in NYC. The way I see it, out of warranty = you're on your own. I don't see what's there to fight about.

The exception is, if you were inflicted with a known issue, such as leaking coolant in certain G5s or faulty Nvidia GPUs in MacBook Pros, and Apple doesn't do anything for you. Then, there's something to fight over.
 
umlaaat said:
having had a genius look at it, he said it might be the dust which, imo, there wasn't really too much of, and/or the logic board ($1,913) and/or the processors ($943). and $135 for the labour.

california:

how does one go about reseating the processors?
Click to expand...

Dude, you need to smarten up and do some home work. First thing is getting the late 2005 service manual for the PM G5. I have the 2004 edition. PM me and I give you a download URL. Better get the late 2005 also.

The manual tells you all about procedures and diagnostics. You take about 1h to know more than the "Genious" studying that. It tells you in detail how to remove and reseat a processor or the order of parts to replace for certain fault diagnostic.

There is no way around physically getting such parts and AASPs will do that for you and charge only the labour if you negotiate a job correctly with them. Get a list of certified AASPs in your area and find the most competent in terms of repairs. The more you do on your own the cheaper it will be in the end .
 
pastrychef said:
I was born, bred, and raised in NYC. The way I see it, out of warranty = you're on your own. I don't see what's there to fight about.

The exception is, if you were inflicted with a known issue, such as leaking coolant in certain G5s or faulty Nvidia GPUs in MacBook Pros, and Apple doesn't do anything for you. Then, there's something to fight over.
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Yeah true but there are laws on the books that prohibit manufacturers from some types of obsolescence by practice or policy. If it's an industry-wide practice to support and X-Y-Z product or combination then we can enforce this through the court systems. Or if there was some specific advertising that is contingent on a future product or event that ended up falling outside of the warrantee period then we can still hold them to it. So it's not as clear-cut as "out of warranty = you're on your own". Although it ends up being that way in many cases anyway because it takes time and money to make these guys toe the line. Most of us aren't willing to invest the effort. Heck, look at Microsoft. They were already a total monster before there was ever a case made against them. By then it was way too late. And of course our court system is to corrupt and weak these days - but that's another story I guess.
 
Tesselator said:
Yeah true but there are laws on the books that prohibit manufacturers from some types of obsolescence by practice or policy. If it's an industry-wide practice to support and X-Y-Z product or combination then we can enforce this through the court systems. Or if there was some specific advertising that is contingent on a future product or event that ended up falling outside of the warrantee period then we can still hold them to it. So it's not as clear-cut as "out of warranty = you're on your own". Although it ends up being that way in many cases anyway because it takes time and money to make these guys toe the line. Most of us aren't willing to invest the effort. Heck, look at Microsoft. They were already a total monster before there was ever a case made against them. By then it was way too late. And of course our court system is to corrupt and weak these days - but that's another story I guess.
Click to expand...

what laws?
 
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