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yeah, I'm extremely relieved.

the confirmation e-mail Apple sent me even lists "External case/enclosure - External case cracked/dented" under the problem description, so I'm wondering if that means they also plan on replacing the case. which is a pretty sweet bonus, if I do say so myself.

although I'm sure that's just to protect themselves from all sorts of liability.

but, anyway, kudos to customer relations. they were very helpful, so it's good to know that one can get results as long as they don't let themselves get intimidated by bad geniuses and applecare reps.
 
Although the issue is essentially resolved, I've also drafted an e-mail to Apple about my situation so hopefully other customers don't run into this problem.

Hopefully someone will find this helpful, especially if they ever need contact info for any of these individuals.


From: "SuparShadow"
Subject: Retail Store and AppleCare Concern
Date: March 23, 2009 2:48:57 PM EDT
To: pfradin@apple.com, ksmith@apple.com, sjobs@apple.com, tcook@apple.com, ronj@apple.com


To Whom It May Concern,

I am contacting you concerning a matter which troubles me.

Last Sunday (March 15, 2009), I visited the SoHo Apple Store after experiencing some video anomalies with my 2006 15.4" 2GHz Intel Core Duo MacBook Pro (MA600LL/A).

At the time, I believed the issue was related to my computer's graphics card. After some research, I've found that many other customers with my model seem to be experiencing the same problem, and that it might be related to damage caused by the heat generated by the computer.

Here are a few links to articles and testimonials I found that describe the same issue in relation to the ATI Radeon x1600 card in our machines.

As an AppleCare customer, I obviously expected that this defect would be taken care of easily and without incident.

So I booked the soonest available Genius Bar appointment I could find in the city.

Usually, I don't have very high expectations when I walk into the SoHo store for a Genius Bar appointment. I understand it's one of Apple's busiest retail stores, and I know the staff is probably constantly under a barrage of angry or frustrated customers trying to get their computers fixed quickly, so I try to cut them a little slack in that regard.

When I dropped off my notebook on Sunday March 15th, I discussed my concerns about the graphics card and how it was my understanding that the graphics card is attached to the logic board in Apple's notebooks, and that most likely the entire part would need to be replaced. The Genius then inspected the computer, took note of the minor cosmetic damage it's incurred over two years of use, and filled out a work authorization sheet. He explained to me that the store's GCRM was currently down and estimated the repair would take 3-5 days. Knowing that was a guess, and that without the GCRM he had no way of giving me a more specific or accurate time estimate, I figured I'd call back the next day for a more accurate estimation.

Fortunately, I had specifically chosen to bring in my computer for repairs this week since I was on break from school and it was the only time I could afford to be without my computer.

On Tuesday, March 17th, I called the SoHo store to get a better idea of when my computer would be ready for pickup. The phone operator consulted with a Genius and told me they the replacement logic board in stock, but had to do some more tests to isolate and verify the problem, and that I could expect my computer to be ready within 4-5 days.

The fourth day after that, Saturday, March 21, I again called the SoHo store to make sure the computer would be ready on time. I was told that my computer had "somehow gotten pushed back," and that it wouldn't be ready until possibly Tuesday, March 24. I explained to the phone operator that I had specifically brought in my computer this week to allow enough time for the repair since I would need my equipment back by Monday. She suggested I visit the store in-person on Monday and speak to a manager, so I asked to speak with one on the phone. The operator placed me on hold while she found a manager. She apparently discussed my case with him, and he relayed, through her, that somebody would call me back by the end of the day.

A couple of hours later, I received a voicemail from the original Genius who inspected my computer. He indicated that the store would not be able to perform the repair under my AppleCare Protection Plan because of cosmetic damage they had found on the computer's exterior/case. I then visited the store in person and asked to speak with the manager at the Genius Bar. She and the lead genius then went to look at my computer, and came back, parroting the message on my voicemail and quoting me $1,240 for a tier-4 repair.

Specifically, the SoHo employees claimed that a dent the found on my left speaker had been the result of accidental damage, which they concluded caused damage to the logic board and was the cause of the distorted video symptoms I was now experiencing.

Disappointed, I took my computer home and called AppleCare, hoping I would get a more sympathetic agent via the hotline. Unfortunately, the product specialist I was transferred to simply parroted back the Retail Store's notes, and tried to use a convoluted example of "damaging the logic board via day-to-day electrostatic discharge" to illustrate how a small dent could cause damage.

While I'm no expert, it did seem unlikely to me that the dent in question, which I believe is purely cosmetic, would have damaged the logic board in such a way to cause a single, isolated symptom that several other owners of this model have also begun recently experiencing. Especially when the damage the employees were citing was on the opposite end of the logic board from where the relevant components (the video card, specifically) are located.

Instead, it seems to me, these machines have a faulty video card that, for whatever reason, has begun failing en masse after two years and, as a manufacturer's defect, should certainly be covered under the terms of AppleCare.

This morning, I decided to place a call to Apple's Customer Relations. The agent I spoke to was extremely helpful, and concluded that my machine was eligible for an no-cost repair exception since the Genius had "sufficient evidence" (his initial notes about the cosmetic damage, I'm assuming) to deny the repair under AppleCare when I first checked in the computer, and that they should have told me so to begin with instead of keeping my computer for a week without so much as looking at it.

As of today (Monday, March 23), I'm pleased to say that Customer Relations has authorized a mail-in repair for my unit, and look forward to having these issues settled once and for all.

Still, I'm unsettled by the experience I went through with the SoHo store and its Genius Bar. Fortunately, the employees were all very polite and patient in handling my case, but I'm very disappointed with the level of customer service provided up to this point.

To have my computer for an entire week without having so much as touched it, trying to delay the repair an additional several days (which was only avoided because I insisted on speaking with a manager), and then refusing the warranty coverage I've paid for and am entitled to because of a cosmetic detail that should have taken no more than a minute (let alone seven days) to identify is unacceptable. It has soiled my impression of Apple from a company I ordinarily respect and am loyal to, to a greedy corporation that uses flimsy excuses like minor cosmetic damage to avoid meeting the conditions of its contracts and agreements and employs "Geniuses" who are either too lazy and uninterested in customer satisfaction or too overwhelmed to perform thorough and quality work.

I've been a long-time Apple customer, starting with my first Mac (a 15" flat-panel iMac) in 2003, a first-generation iPod that same year, my MacBook Pro in 2006, a first-generation iPhone, and an iPod Shuffle.

In every other instance I have always been very pleased with both your products and the support you provide. Fortunately, I have rarely needed to have repairs done on any of the products I've purchased, but this recent experience has been a very disappointing blip on a company's otherwise record of excellence. Frankly, I expected better — especially for such an expensive piece of equipment.

For your reference, the serial number of the computer in question is WXXXXXXXXXX. The repair ID is XXXXXXXXX and my case number is XXXXXXXXX.

Yours respectfully,
"SuparShadow"

P.S. — I hope that you will also bring this GPU issue to the attention of Mr. Bob Mansfield and his department's team. I would have Cc'd him on this e-mail as well, but had less luck finding his e-mail address than some of the other individuals addressed. However, it sounds like these graphics cards are ticking time-bombs, and as long as these units are officially supported by Apple, I think it's an issue that — if it doesn't warrant a recall — should at least be acknowledged by Geniuses and AppleCare so that users with a legitimate problem aren't turned away on bogus claims of accidental damage.

Also, I would like to emphasize that I was very pleased with the way Customer Relations handled this situation. I wish I had taken down the agent's name, but he was very professional and helpful in getting this matter settled. Sadly, it does not excuse the poor service on the store or the AppleCare hotline's behalf, but it is encouraging to know that there do exist individuals within Apple who take customer service and satisfaction seriously.

Cc:
Paul Fradin, SoHo Store General Manager
Khalil Smith, SoHo Store Manager
Steve Jobs, Chief Executive Officer
Tim Cook, Acting Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer
Ron Johnson, Senior Vice President for Retail
 
Ron actually just replied.

From: ronj@apple.com
Subject: Re: Retail Store and AppleCare Concern
Date: March 23, 2009 3:34:14 PM EDT
To: "SuparShadow"
Cc: pfradin@apple.com, ksmith@apple.com

Hi "SuparShadow"

I am confident Paul and Khalil will look into it right away.

Ron


Subject: Re: Retail Store and AppleCare Concern
From: "SuparShadow"
Date: March 23, 2009 3:46:33 PM EDT
To: ronj@apple.com
Cc: pfradin@apple.com, ksmith@apple.com

Thank you, Ron, and I appreciate the quick reply. I know you probably have far bigger and more important things to be dealing with, so I'm very impressed that you could take the time to read and respond to my letter.

As I described, at this point Customer Relations has (thankfully) arranged to complete the repair, but I just wanted to make sure someone was made aware of the situation so other customers won't need to find themselves in the same situation.

I'm sure you'll agree it's a shame when one bad experience can threaten a loyal consumer's faith in a company like Apple and its products, so please keep up the good work!

Thanks again,

"SuparShadow"


From: ronj@apple.com
Subject: Re: Retail Store and AppleCare Concern
Date: March 23, 2009 3:48:49 PM
To: "SuparShadow"
Cc: pfradin@apple.com, ksmith@apple.com

We learn from every experience in an attempt to do better.

Thank you

Ron

Of course, they've already promised to repair my computer, so at this point I already got what I wanted and the point is moot, but I'll keep you guys posted if they do decide to act further, of course.
 
Hi again everybody,

Just wanted to put in one last update. The store manager, Khalil, gave me a call a few minutes ago, apologizing profusely for my poor experience at the store's genius bar. He said he'll be sending me his direct contact info in case I ever have another question or issue with or about an Apple product or the store, and offered me my choice of a $25 iTunes Gift Card or a 10% store credit.

I'm not a big iTunes Music Store user, so I'll probably opt for the store credit, but I just wanted to share the store's response with you guys. It took a little pushing, but I got what I needed and then some, so my faith in Apple? Slightly shaken, but more-or-less intact. And kudos to the managers, execs, etc., who handled this with the professionalism and courtesy I would expect from Apple.
 
Glad to hear things are working out :) Taking the high road and staying calm and polite usually ends up in favor of the customer. Hope they get you fixed up in a timely manner.

Thanks for the update, always enjoy these stories when it ends well for the consumer :)
 
Don't you love how Apple's executives actually read their e-mail? :) Your experience has been very similar to mine (a bit with different products). Every e-mail I've sent Apple about a problem has been quickly replied to by someone at Apple.

Other companies would just blow you off, although for the record Steve Balmer answers his e-mail too (although it took a few months).
 
I'm sure there's also something to be said about being terrified when you're Cc'd on an e-mail addressed to the executive board of your company and singling out one of its most high-profile stores -- that you're responsible for -- for shoddy service.

But to his credit, the store manager did sound genuinely apologetic and addressed the situation promptly (and then some, the store credit was a very nice gesture of good faith, IMO), which is all I really ever wanted in the first place.

Well, that and getting my computer fixed.
 
Yeah, Store Managers seem to be much nicer when the higher-ups are communicating to them to "make it right!" That always makes me wonder why these Store Managers are willing to let the dissatisfied or disgruntled customer walk out the door, only to return after a personal phone call from that same Store Manager asking "what will it take to make it right?" I've been to Customer Relations on two occasions and they both required the Store Manager to apologize for the poor customer service at the Genius Bar via a phone call at my residence. And both times I walked out of the store with my requests being fulfilled, in the form of a new upgraded computer and a full refund for another computer and all of its accessories.
 
Ron actually just replied.









Of course, they've already promised to repair my computer, so at this point I already got what I wanted and the point is moot, but I'll keep you guys posted if they do decide to act further, of course.

Would you mind posting the full names and titles of the people in your :cc list? Looks like I have to use my last resort as well. Two months of dealing with Applecare and Customer relations has got me nowhere!

Is Bill Frederick the Senior VP for customer case/Applecare?

Thanks in advance,

eV
 
Just to add my 2 cents, from my experience I think the Apple people in the Soho and Fifth Ave stores are a**holes. I just deal with the store in the Meatpacking District and never had a problem.
 
Steve Jobs, Chief Executive Officer, sjobs@apple.com

Tim Cook, Acting Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer, tcook@apple.com

Ron Johnson, Senior Vice President for Retail, ronj@apple.com

However, the administrator who's responsible specifically for AppleCare and Customer Care is, I believe, a woman named Jeanne Toulouse. I can't find an e-mail or phone number for her, but I think you can get yourself routed to her voicemail if you call Apple's corporate offices. (408) 996-1010

In my case, Mr. Johnson was mostly relevant because I had tried to get my computer fixed in the store first, and the brick and mortar "retail" stores are part of his department. And while one of Mr. Cook's assistants did call me back, by then I had already solved my problem by calling corporate and simply asking to speak with a customer relations rep.

Good luck!
 
Steve Jobs, Chief Executive Officer, sjobs@apple.com

Tim Cook, Acting Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer, tcook@apple.com

Ron Johnson, Senior Vice President for Retail, ronj@apple.com

However, the administrator who's responsible specifically for AppleCare and Customer Care is, I believe, a woman named Jeanne Toulouse. I can't find an e-mail or phone number for her, but I think you can get yourself routed to her voicemail if you call Apple's corporate offices. (408) 996-1010

Good luck!



Thanks!

eV

PS.
I believe, a woman named Jeanne Toulouse

She resigned 4 months ago ...
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeanne-toulouse/12/a58/bab

eV
 
getting stuff donw

so i read about some one getting denied service for a MBP at the apple store. i work for apple care, tier 1 cpu support so im not just making poop up about how i think apple works.
the very first thing either the genius (if you go to an ARS), service provider (if you go to an AASP) or the repair tech at the apple repair depot do is try determine is failure is accidental damage. then deny coverage if so. then theres a series of other steps taken if its not accidental damage to find the failure. it seems sometimes when theres little evidence of such damage nothing furthers done and its denied.
someone had a dent on the side and the ARS said that damaged the MLB. this is totally possible but not likely as the dent happened a year before new symptoms. i even saw some comment on how apple care said static can damage hardware. the person making this comment thought a tier 1 agent said this - your probably right. those guys shoot so much crap out their mouths its funny.
you see tier 2 are the "supervisors". "product specialists" and the go to guys for tier 1. and they even pretend to be the customer relations department on the weekends when customer relations are at home.
sometimes when i deal with these clowns, about 3 times a day, i get off the phone with them and think "i have to go explain to my customer that intense sparking when plugging the cord in is normal and is whats known as a gap charge?" its not just tier 2 that can be morons, alot of genius's will call apple care cpu support with idiotic questions. these guys are even supposed to call apple care, they have their own escalation routes.
so denying the coverage is always going to be the first thing to consider. then like i said depending on the type of failure steps are taking to isolate.
with that said you would think that its fail safe and mistakes are eliminated. i dont know how many times i have to explain to a customer that it looks like we screwed the pooch again. of course i cant say that, i have to position the facts in a tact way so i dont admit guilt of apple.
what i sometimes tell people when i think they got the business end of a plunger up the poop deck.
so i pretty much tell people to go back to the ARS, make sure your good and pissed first ;), and demand they fix it. but if someone is already livid i tell them i can get a customer relations agent on the line. while trying to tell the customer we will pay for it. cause if an agent sets the expectations that apple is going to cover it, customer relations always makes the exception.

the thing to do is stay pissed but dont scream at anyone you talk to, dont swear at them or make any threats. just stick to your guns.
the first level of support is tier 1. that goes for the airport router support, application support, cpu support and ipod & iphone support.
the next level is tier 2. about all these jackasses can do is give you an ipod or issue a CS (customer satisfaction) code to have your battery replaced. so if your lookin to have your computer replaced or repair payed for theyre not going to do much for you. tier 2 are the folks all tier 1 agents will transfer you to on requests like that.
there are some exceptions:
if your macbook paint is chipping - this will always be covered
if you battery is crap and has been fully depleted and recharged less then 300 times - this is coverd
if your computer has had 3 major repairs and it brakes again - thats always covered.
- if you call apple care and have no phone support and the previous agent gave you support - the nex agent has to give you support

so if you go through all of this and apple still wont help you. call applecare and ask to speak with customer relations. the whole point of this department is to unpiss off pissed off customers.
now dont think im all against apple... just get tired of dealing with snapper heads all day
 
Overall, the Soho store has become the absolute worst in terms of customer service IMO. Maybe its because its busier--I don't know--but they've got some problems there. The salespeople are not as knowledgeable (downright clueless at times) and the genius bar is full of stressed out technicians with an attitude. I don't think its managed very well.

I've had much better experiences at the other two stores and at locations outside NYC. I try to avoid Soho now unless I just need to run in and out for something.

Anyway, glad you got your mbp fixed. It sounds like it shouldn't have been nearly that complicated for you. :)
 
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