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fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Extreme nitpick time



I’m pretty sure (and Mactracker seems to confirm) that FireWire debuted in the blue and white Power Mac G3 a few months before it appeared in any iMacs. The original iMac models definitely didn’t have it. The quote doesn’t exactly claim that the iMac was the first Apple product with FireWire, but it could easily be construed that way!
Yes, the first iMac G3 that had it was its second revision, which I've seen called the iMac G3 FireWire.
 

itguy06

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2006
849
1,139
And how many Surface Studio has Microsoft sold?

And if Apple had come out with Surface Studio there would have been a whine fest about the lack of powerful CPU GPU options. Look at the hardware specification of the Surface Studio. It is not impressive.

Hardware wise they flubbed it. But the design is freaking awesome and something Apple would design. It reminds me of the 2001 iMac and that design was o e of the best in the world. It's a shame Apple threw that all away with the chin iMacs.
 

swamprock

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2015
1,206
1,760
Michigan
So of the three "industry firsts" that this article mentions, "USB, FireWire, and quiet fan-less operation," only USB was actually pioneered by the original iMac.

And then there's the wild assertion that "by the mid-1990s, Apple was hundreds of millions of dollars in debt," which I dealt with earlier.

Would it be too much to ask that MacRumors actually fact-check stories before posting them?

I overlooked the mention of Firewire completely. Nice catch.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
Hmm. Here's some other computers released under Jobs' various reigns:

Apple II: The lid just unclipped and there was a row of expansion slots inside.
Lisa: I believe it had internal expansion slots
NeXT: ...had expansion slots (and Unix).
Power Mac G3 (Blue & White): tool-free access to its internal expansion features.
Power Mac G5: Again, slots, drive bays, tool-free access beyond the call of duty...
Mac Pro (cheesegrater): Slots, drive bays, tool-free access.
xServe: internal ram & expansion slots, removable hard drive bays...
MacBook Pro: easily (very easy, by laptop standards) upgradeable RAM and hard drive (intentionally so - with instructions printed in the user guide) until 2012.

Looks to me like someone who clearly understood the difference between a computing "appliance" and a pro workstation. From the release of the iMac through to 2011 - when the Mac Pro first started to wither on the vine there was always a powerful, versatile, expandable, easy-to-open option alongside the "appliances".

Methinks people are over-extrapolating Jobs' well-publicised original 1980s vision of the Macintosh range as a sealed appliance to some sort of dogma that all computing devices need to be like (original) Macs (or, indeed, iPhone/iPads).

It seems strange that someone who thought the future was only sealed-unit appliances would have allowed the G3 tower or the Cheesegrater - which the designers went out of their way to make easy to get inside - to be released.

In other news, Jobs could easily have hidden Unix away from the users (just like Android hides Linux) yet OS X shipped with a terminal app + a complete development suite (including all the usual Unix tools and compilers) "in the box". Even with the famously closed iOS, it is relatively cheap and easy for anybody to register as a developer (c.f., say, games consoles, which are pretty much serious-callers-only).

Sorry, but the idea that Jobs was single-mindedly pursuing sealed, closed systems for everything isn't borne out in his actions. That one is down to the new management.
You should check your history.
The one wanting expansion slots were Wozniak. Jobs wanted less, or even none of those. Jobs wasn’t doing the Lisa, he was doing the Macintosh during that time.

In Next, Jobs created the overpriced cube. Then back at Apple, he created the G4 cube. Less expansion, no fans.

Under Jobs, we also have unibody aluminum MacBooks, Apple started selling MacBooks so the battery is not user accessible, MacbookAir, iPhone, and finally, Jobs’ personal champ, the iPad.

Read the biography about Steve Jobs if you are not sure. He wanted a highly controlled user experience, thus he doesn’t want the user have access to things that will ruin the experience he had designed.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
Serveral updatest every two years. iPhone comes. Steve goes. No updates in a decade.
Before iPhone 2004-2007 was 3 years, after iPhone from 2009-2012 was also 3 years. Last update was 5-1/2 years ago.

Next update would seem to have one obvious change: smaller bezels. Not sure what else, we won’t know until it’s released. I’d guess later this year.
 

Peperino

macrumors 6502a
Nov 2, 2016
999
1,683
He’s sucked the magic out of Apple so much that they are now more profitable and have a slew of popular products that people just keep buying.....:rolleyes:

Under Cook we have seen AirPods and Apple Watch both of which are VERY popular, not only that but the iPhone has grown to do really well now with the Plus model and the regular! Oh and don’t forget the iPad is doing well also.

The iMac has saw a more thinner design change in 2012 (my first iMac and I love it) Apple also added both 4K and 5K iMacs, that doesn’t seem to be appreciated.

Oh and the MacBook Pro and MacBook sales have also been doing really well.

I don’t see what the problem is here o_O

Under Cook, Apple sadly became a Phone company. No one question profitability. I question that the entire hardware (computers) line up lost its edge and competitivity.
Many of the computers designs has been complete failure including the Mac Pro and the latest Macbook Pro.
The Macbook Pro was so bad that they removed the best feature, Mag-Safe, for a "Pro" Machine was limited to 16GB Ram and you could not even connect your own iPhone, Go Apple!! Oh, and Many pro users actually returned the Laptop after the first week. That they are selling them does not mean is it a good design. It is known mistake that Apple has been making the past several years of sacrificing performance in lieu of making computer thinner. And that is what happens with the last Macbook Pro.

The upgrades cycles are longer and longer.
Oh, when was the last time they updated the Mac Minis?
Oh, when was the last time they updated the Mac Pro?
Oh, when was the last time they updated the design of the iMac? The actual design barely change since 2004 which in computer time is an eternity.Oh...so you know, making a computer thinner is not revolutionary...

Oh, and the iMac Pro, it is quite a joke that in a 6K computer you cannot upgrade the internal HD.
Oh, How many years took Apple to acknowledge that the Mac Pro was a failure? That is why many Pro Users got tired of waiting and are looking for other alternatives like Hackintosh, or modified old towers.

It seems that you get happy with Emojis updates...
 
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DevNull0

macrumors 68030
Jan 6, 2015
2,703
5,390
The MacRumors graphic of the 8 iMac models at the bottom says it all. All 8 models were released from 1998 through 2012 with a major refresh every year or second year for the entire 14 year time period.

Now in 2018 there hasn't been a single major refresh since then and we are still on the 2012 design (which would have been designed under Steve Jobs).

Tim Cook (aka the second coming of John Sculley) is literally doing nothing but twiddling his thumbs and bragging about his clogged pipeline.
[doublepost=1525750735][/doublepost]
He’s sucked the magic out of Apple so much that they are now more profitable and have a slew of popular products that people just keep buying.....:rolleyes:

John Sculley sucked the magic out of Apple so much that for several years they were one of the most profitable companies in Silicon Valley (and Sculley was the highest paid CEO in the Valley). It was great, squeeze the margins as much as possible, sacrifice product quality and user experience for the mighty profit, lock down everything into a proprietary walled-garden to make a fortune on accessories. But that train only goes on for so long before it goes over a cliff as Sculley so effectively demonstrated. And now Tim Cook is following the exact same tracks. It will end very suddenly and very catastrophically for Apple. Only this time there is no Steve Jobs to bail them out.
[doublepost=1525751286][/doublepost]
If you are the Samsung CEO, it's really sad to watch what's happening at Apple. iPhone X makes more profit than all the Samsung phones combined, and some people are calling it a failure.

Yep but for those of us who aren't the CEOs of multibillion dollar companies, who just want a nice flexible and powerful computer to get work done, why should Apple having high margins or low margins mean anything at all?

As the OP said, it's sad to watch the once great Apple let their macs rot and whither on the vine all in the name of short term margin and profits. History repeats itself and the course Apple is on is inevitable. Apple is not doomed this quarter or even this decade, but the path they've chosen only has one conclusion.
 
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Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,763
8,005
John Sculley sucked the magic out of Apple so much that for several years they were one of the most profitable companies in Silicon Valley (and Sculley was the highest paid CEO in the Valley). It was great, squeeze the margins as much as possible, sacrifice product quality and user experience for the mighty profit, lock down everything into a proprietary walled-garden to make a fortune on accessories. But that train only goes on for so long before it goes over a cliff as Sculley so effectively demonstrated. And now Tim Cook is following the exact same tracks. It will end very suddenly and very catastrophically for Apple. Only this time there is no Steve Jobs to bail them out.

No your wrong on that one, the product quality is still there look at the iPhone X look at its satisfaction rate and it’s sales, look at the AirPods and look at the Apple Watch the best selling smartwatch on the market and again the most popular.

Apple are still making great products that people want to buy, you mention Sculley he sucked the life out of Apple by removing it’s DNA, Apple’s DNA is still there now for sure. You may not like the direction they are going but every company must change with time, Jobs died in 2011 Cook took over and as far as I can see he’s been doing a great job so far.
 
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theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,502
7,385
You should check your history.
The one wanting expansion slots were Wozniak.

The only computer on that list that Wozniak was involved in was the Apple 2.
The NeXT had expansion slots. http://oldcomputers.net/next-cube.html
The blue & white Power Mac, the Cheese Grater, Xserve, were all launched after Jobs had taken back control of Apple.
The Unibody MacBook Pros had easily accessible RAM and HD.

Actions speak louder than biographies. Yes, some of Jobs’ babies were sealed appliances for mass consumption, but applying that principle to so-called “pro” devices is a post-Jobs trend.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
Under Cook, Apple sadly became a Phone company. No one question profitability. I question that the entire hardware (computers) line up lost its edge and competitivity.
Many of the computers designs has been complete failure including the Mac Pro and the latest Macbook Pro.
The Macbook Pro was so bad that they removed the best feature, Mag-Safe, for a "Pro" Machine was limited to 16GB Ram and you could not even connect your own iPhone, Go Apple!! Oh, and Many pro users actually returned the Laptop after the first week. That they are selling them does not mean is it a good design. It is known mistake that Apple has been making the past several years of sacrificing performance in lieu of making computer thinner. And that is what happens with the last Macbook Pro.

The upgrades cycles are longer and longer.
Oh, when was the last time they updated the Mac Minis?
Oh, when was the last time they updated the Mac Pro?
Oh, when was the last time they updated the design of the iMac? The actual design barely change since 2004 which in computer time is an eternity.Oh...so you know, making a computer thinner is not revolutionary...

Oh, and the iMac Pro, it is quite a joke that in a 6K computer you cannot upgrade the internal HD.
Oh, How many years took Apple to acknowledge that the Mac Pro was a failure? That is why many Pro Users got tired of waiting and are looking for other alternatives like Hackintosh, or modified old towers.

It seems that you get happy with Emojis updates...
Jobs was the one who changed the company's name from Apple Computer Inc into Apple Inc. You should've known where Apple is heading back then.
And if you actually ever listen to Jobs on almost every interview, Jobs' vision is to create products for mere mortals, the lay people, not the geeks/nerds. They started with the Macintosh, putting everything into all-in-one. Fast forward, even Jobs was quite proud of the iPad and iPhone, and saw that that is the direction of "computer" for the masses.
 

ksec

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2015
2,227
2,584
Jobs was the one who changed the company's name from Apple Computer Inc into Apple Inc. You should've known where Apple is heading back then.
And if you actually ever listen to Jobs on almost every interview, Jobs' vision is to create products for mere mortals, the lay people, not the geeks/nerds. They started with the Macintosh, putting everything into all-in-one. Fast forward, even Jobs was quite proud of the iPad and iPhone, and saw that that is the direction of "computer" for the masses.

But Job also cares about the Pro people. Even though it was tiny market shares. Along with education. He was also a little unsure whether iPad was really the direction to go to totally replaces the Mac. And it seems it aren't happening yet.
 

rockarollr

Suspended
Apr 3, 2010
152
224
USA
Seems like you always...ALWAYS have something negative to say, this should be a happy thread.

I’m convinced there are accounts here on MacRumors, created by competitors, whose sole purpose is to misinform and to sway public opinion of Apple toward the negative.

I think you just found one of them.
 
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Peperino

macrumors 6502a
Nov 2, 2016
999
1,683
Apple are still making great products that people want to buy, you mention Sculley he sucked the life out of Apple by removing it’s DNA, Apple’s DNA is still there now for sure. You may not like the direction they are going but every company must change with time, Jobs died in 2011 Cook took over and as far as I can see he’s been doing s great job so far.

Really? innovation at Apple is dead. You can see that hardware upgrades are not only taking longer and longer. But upgrades are limited to internal upgrades only.

The iMac design was barely updated since 2004. Look at the design of the Surface Pro. You might not like Windows, but the design of the Surface Pro is much better than the iMac.
Furthermore, most of the latest hardware upgrades were complete failures. The Mac Pro Trashcan and the latest Macbook with a touchbar.
WHat is really sad is that it took them over 10 years to figure out that the Mac Pro was a failure, and to come out with a new one. And in addition, no one got fired.
 
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Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,763
8,005
Really? innovation at Apple is dead. You can see that hardware upgrades are not only taking longer and longer. But upgrades are limited to internal upgrades only.

The iMac design was barely updated since 2004. Look at the design of the Surface Pro. You might not like Windows, but the design of the Surface Pro is much better than the iMac.
Furthermore, most of the latest hardware upgrades were complete failures. The Mac Pro Trashcan and the latest Macbook with a touchbar.
WHat is really sad is that it took them over 10 years to figure out that the Mac Pro was a failure, and to come out with a new one. And in addition, no one got fired.

Innovation at Apple is dead? I guess you haven’t heard of the AirPods and Apple Watch to name a couple. The iMac got a thinner redesign in 2012 and later it got 4K and 5K screens! The Mac Pro they owned up to and it’s not a 10 year failure, it was from 2013 design that they backed themselves into a corner.

The Surface Pro may be better looking in your opinion but again that’s just your opinion, in my opinion the iMac is the best looking desktop out there.

The MacBook Pro with Touch Bar is hardly a failure when Apple themselves have pointed to impressive sales of the latest MacBook Pro’s. Maybe in your eyes they are failures which is your opinion but that doesn’t mean they are to many other people.

Just look at sales and look at the Apple Watch the best smartwatch on the market, AirPods are VERY popular in fact the last time I was in London I saw a lot of people wearing them.
 
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Peperino

macrumors 6502a
Nov 2, 2016
999
1,683
Innovation at Apple is dead? I guess you haven’t heard of the AirPods and Apple Watch to name a couple. The iMac got a thinner redesign in 2012 and later it got 4K and 5K screens! The Mac Pro they owned up to and it’s not a 10 year failure, it was from 2013 design that they backed themselves into a corner.

The Surface Pro may be better looking in your opinion but again that’s just your opinion, in my opinion the iMac is the best looking desktop out there.

The MacBook Pro with Touch Bar is hardly a failure when Apple themselves have pointed to impressive sales of the latest MacBook Pro’s. Maybe in your eyes they are failures which is your opinion but that doesn’t mean they are to many other people.

Just look at sales and look at the Apple Watch the best smartwatch on the market, AirPods are VERY popular in fact the last time I was in London I saw a lot of people wearing them.

You missed the point. Again, making a computer thinner and better resolution does NOT change the design.
THe Mac PRO is a complete failure. All the tower owners did NOT upgrade to the Mac Pro. They actually still have them after almost 10 years and still struggling what to do. Many of the have Hackintosh.

The Surface PRO, is a much better design than the iMac (not a better computer). You can move the monitor as you please, especially great for drawing or other graphic programs. The iMac cannot be moved at all. How is that a better design?

The Macbook Pro, was a complete failure or you are living in another planet...
THat people by a Kr@p design does not make it good. Many people by PCs and does not make it good computers.

The Macbook Pro, was the one of the hardware that received the worst reviews in the history of Apple.
Reasons:
1- A "Pro"computer limited to 16gb RAM. A joke.
2- You cannot connect your own ipHone
3- You need plenty of adaptors. So much so that they offered adaptors at ridiculous prices.
4- the remove of one of the best features, the Mag-Safe.
5- Completely overprice for the old processor for a Pro Macbook.
6- The problems with the Battery.
7- I can keep going but I hope by now you should get the point.

By the way what about the Home pod? They came so late to the party and completely overpriced. And it does not work as good as the Alexa.

You keep mentioning Applewatch and iPods, which are 2 minor products.

You seem not to know what is innovation.
APPLE INNOVATION IS DEAD... Except the iphone, the entire computer line up look like a joke.

They used to be in the forefront of innovation, now they are following others. So SAD
 
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Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,763
8,005
You missed the point. Again, making a computer thinner and better resolution does NOT change the design.
THe Mac PRO is a complete failure. All the tower owners did NOT upgrade to the Mac Pro. They actually still have them after almost 10 years and still struggling what to do. Many of the have Hackintosh.

The Surface PRO, is a much better design than the iMac (not a better computer). You can move the monitor as you please, especially great for drawing or other graphic programs. The iMac cannot be moved at all. How is that a better design?

The Macbook Pro, was a complete failure or you are living in another planet...
THat people by a Kr@p design does not make it good. Many people by PCs and does not make it good computers.

The Macbook Pro, was the one of the hardware that received the worst reviews in the history of Apple.
Reasons:
1- A "Pro"computer limited to 16gb RAM. A joke.
2- You cannot connect your own ipHone
3- You need plenty of adaptors. So much so that they offered adaptors at ridiculous prices.
4- the remove of one of the best features, the Mag-Safe.
5- Completely overprice for the old processor for a Pro Macbook.
6- The problems with the Battery.
7- I can keep going but I hope by now you should get the point.

By the way what about the Home pod? They came so late to the party and completely overpriced. And it does not work as good as the Alexa.

You keep mentioning Applewatch and iPods, which are 2 minor products.

You seem not to know what is innovation.
APPLE INNOVATION IS DEAD... Except the iphone, the entire computer line up look like a joke.

They used to be in the forefront of innovation, now they are following others. So SAD

The 2012 design is still a design change, not everything has to be dramatically different a lot of people love the design of the iMac. Again if you think that the Surface Pro design is better than the iMac that’s your personal opinion it’s far from a fact, there’s a lot of people who would dissagree with you. Just because you can move the screen doesn’t make it a better design, I don’t want or need to draw on a computer screen.

Can you prove that? I mean the 2013 design backed them into a corner which they later admitted to but again that doesn’t mean the whole product line is a failure.

Again your going off of your own personal opinion, the MacBook Pro has sold well even Cook during earning calls has mentioned it, If it was a failure like you say it would not be selling and Apple would have a dud on their hands, people vote with their wallets.

The HomePod is to early to tell sure Siri needs improving and it’s not as good as Alexa or Google’s assistant but that doesn’t make it a failure especially when it’s somthing that can and will get updates, plus the HomePod sounds really good Apple are often late to the party they always have been its really not a cause for concern.

I never mentioned the iPod, Apple Watch and AirPods are not minor products the Apple Watch is the number 1 smartwatch and sales are continuing to grow the Series 3 has been very popular, you can’t say Apple are not innovating while then deciding to exclude the Apple Watch and AirPods which are really popular.

Following others have you seen the other company’s trying to copy the iPhone X, Apple Watch and so on.

We are not going to agree on this, you have your opinion and I have mine, is Apple perfect no, there isn’t a single company that is but there also isn’t cause for concern. Have a nice day.
 

derekamoss

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,487
1,130
Houston, TX
Loved my first eMac, a spiritual successor to the 1998 iMac. I wouldn't have got a Mac without the iMac.
The eMac was my third Apple product and I loved it. My first was an iBook g3 and the second was an iPod (first gen). Now I'm using a Surface Pro and I am loving it as much as I loved the old Apple products.
 

nubero

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2003
187
0
Zurich
People seem to be forgetting there's two Apple fans camps:
  • Consumers. Those who mainly use iPhones and iPads and accessories like the Apple watch, AirPods and HomePod.
  • Users. Those of us who need Macs. The only alternatives are Windows and Linux. Most of us want to keep on using Macs but Apple has been neglecting some Macs for years and introduced pointless engineering like the iMac Pro and ever-thinner laptops that nobody asked for since the introduction of the MacBook Air a decade ago. Now we get laptops with badly designed keyboard keys that lack any travel and that are prone to fail. Touch bars that nobody asked for replacing physical keys and further increasing the price of Macs. At this point, some of us are just hoping Apple will open-source macOS or at least start selling it to other companies. The profits percentage from Macs is now so small that it would not matter much, unlike in the past where Mac clones almost killed Apple.
There's also people who keep mentionning Apple's bank account. As a user, why should I care that Apple is the biggest company on the planet if they stop making the things I need?

And then there's the "vote with your wallet" comments. How are we supposed to vote with our wallet if we need to use macOS? We're tied to Apple and they're neglecting the Macs.

That's why you keep reading negative comments about Apple. Us users are being neglected so that consumers can get shiny new toys every year.

Bravo, bravo, bravo!
 

Peperino

macrumors 6502a
Nov 2, 2016
999
1,683
The 2012 design is still a design change, not everything has to be dramatically different a lot of people love the design of the iMac. Again if you think that the Surface Pro design is better than the iMac that’s your personal opinion it’s far from a fact, there’s a lot of people who would dissagree with you. Just because you can move the screen doesn’t make it a better design, I don’t want or need to draw on a computer screen.

Can you prove that? I mean the 2013 design backed them into a corner which they later admitted to but again that doesn’t mean the whole product line is a failure.

Again your going off of your own personal opinion, the MacBook Pro has sold well even Cook during earning calls has mentioned it, If it was a failure like you say it would not be selling and Apple would have a dud on their hands, people vote with their wallets.

The HomePod is to early to tell sure Siri needs improving and it’s not as good as Alexa or Google’s assistant but that doesn’t make it a failure especially when it’s somthing that can and will get updates, plus the HomePod sounds really good Apple are often late to the party they always have been its really not a cause for concern.

I never mentioned the iPod, Apple Watch and AirPods are not minor products the Apple Watch is the number 1 smartwatch and sales are continuing to grow the Series 3 has been very popular, you can’t say Apple are not innovating while then deciding to exclude the Apple Watch and AirPods which are really popular.

Following others have you seen the other company’s trying to copy the iPhone X, Apple Watch and so on.

We are not going to agree on this, you have your opinion and I have mine, is Apple perfect no, there isn’t a single company that is but there also isn’t cause for concern. Have a nice day.


First, FYI, Apple Macbook sales reports are NOT separated by model. So there is no way to know how many Macbook Pro (touchbar) they sold. When they released the Touchbar, I actually end up buying the previous model for my son.

They kept trying to make Macbook thinner sacrificing performance. The Macbook Pro, looks more like an entry level...
Apple has been neglecting computer design for many years and it shows all over the place.

Facts are not opinions. This actually proves my point. Not only they had problems with batteries but now also with the keyboard.
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/14/macbook-pro-keyboard-class-action-lawsuit/
 
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