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LOL, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

"We want equality, we want to be recognised"

"We want our own day, our own gyms, our own safe places, no men!"

You might want that too if you wandered into your workplace's pantry on some Monday and discovered that the corkboard in there --placed there for company notices and any other fare that a department's staff might find enlightening-- was covered edge to edge with cropped photos taken of female employees who attended the company picnic the prior Saturday. Oh by the way the cropping was done so only our T-shirted or tank-topped chests were visible, and the whole display bannered by "Name Your Favorite Co-Worker".

Of course even back in my day that amounted to harassment via creating or maintaining a hostile work environment, and the display was promptly removed after photographing for documentation's sake by the department secretary and an investigation was begun jointly by the department and HR.

On the other hand, no one copped to who had done it, and even though it was not the first time something like it had happened, the company found itself unable to escalate remediation without removing an enjoyable option for us, namely to post pics of a new baby, an engagement party, etc. on our pantry display.

We had the option for an anonymous vote to enclose the wallboard so that only the department secretary could post to it. The vote was not held, finally, after a departmental meeting in which a number of both women and men openly objected to the idea at all, on assorted grounds such as a) we were adults and most of us didn't need a nanny and b) "so this is why we can't have nice things?" etc, and all such remarks were applauded by what at least seemed to be a majority not just a plurality.

But, sigh... imo with respect to sexual harassment, this is why people sometimes do ask for "nice things" --ordinary things, really-- to be guaranteed separately for at least awhile to women in workplace or in the larger community, even in places that are scrupulous about observing equal rule under law in general and in the workplace.

There can be from time to time a perception that the laws are more observed in breach than in compliance. When that becomes overwhelming, a workplace or community will generally respond by taking some measures to protect people whose rights are being assaulted.

It's unfortunate that companies or communities will sometimes swing some pendulum too far in initial response to this or that harassment complaint. On the other hand, adjustments can be made later on if "overreaction" appears to have been the impetus for a particular change, or if people seem to have matured in their observance of respect for each other's human dignity in the workplace or community.
 
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The people who think Apple did this out of the good of their hearts really need a reality check. They want more people to code so it's cheaper labour for them. If it wasn't, why not learn them Java or Python? Or any of the other more popular languages (https://www.businessinsider.nl/the-...ng-to-github-2018-10/?international=true&r=US)
Men don't need encouragement to start coding, however there is a huge market of women who don't code.

Thank you, with everyone fixating on the issue of discrimination I was worried I was finally going to read a MacRumors thread where someone did not expose the evil Apple! Phew.
 
So, when will they be celebrating a dude's day, or a dude's month?

So far a white male is the most discriminated person today.

So far,,,, men of color are the most likely to get locked up for no good reason.

Shall we give that a day too?

Or shall we all just work to improve equal access to the practical effect of rule of law for everyone?

See I don't have a problem with International Men's Day if the UN decides you've a valid concern there. My awareness of International Women's Day began when the UN recognized it in 1975, that's the only reason I stipulated the UN, although I'm aware the day was observed prior to that for many years, mostly in socialist countries. As far as I'm concerned we can skip the annual celebration (or protest) and just keep on trying to acknowledge each other's contributions, not shutting out anyone for not having the right blasted group tags on our paperwork.

On the other hand, no matter the world has long known now that there's a named day for women and not one for men, stats don't lie and so far it's a man's world, and even further, despite some uneven progress around the globe, it's also still a white man's world.
 
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So far,,,, men of color are the most likely to get locked up for no good reason.

Shall we give that a day too?

Or shall we all just work to improve equal access to the practical effect of rule of law for everyone?

See I don't have a problem with International Men's Day if the UN decides you've a valid concern there. My awareness of International Women's Day began when the UN recognized it in 1975, that's the only reason I stipulated the UN, although I'm aware the day was observed prior to that for many years, mostly in socialist countries. As far as I'm concerned we can skip the annual celebration (or protest) and just keep on trying to acknowledge each other's contributions, not shutting out anyone for not having the right blasted group tags on our paperwork.

On the other hand, no matter the world has long known now that there's a named day for women and not one for men, stats don't lie and so far it's a man's world, and even further, despite some uneven progress around the globe, it's also still a white man's world.
Lol are you done ranting, yet? I grew up with March 8th celebrations every year. You Americans just discovered it. I love how defensive you got. Seared conscious on the display!
 
Lol are you done ranting, yet? I grew up with March 8th celebrations every year. You Americans just discovered it. I love how defensive you got. Seared conscious on the display!

I loved how far off the edge of reality you got by asserting that "so far a white male is the most discriminated today." That deserved a rant I didn't really have time to deliver. Did the best I could in the time I allotted myself. :D
 
Please. Give me a break.

Actually, I don't do Kit-Kat bars.

Aside from that, why should I? From the perspective that some segments of society need special assistance and an extra push to get them to advance as we think they should, could the argument not be made that we should again bus urban minorities to suburban schools with big sports budgets, and likewise maybe bus kids in wealthier neighborhoods to poorer schools in order to even the odds for people?

Can we not make a case that segregating people in order to not be intimidated or overshadowed could be a good thing?

I'm sorry that you can't see the similarity, but it's there.

mathews_peace.gif
 
Not a problem at all. Girls and boys, women and men generally have different preferences and Apple or AOC can't change that. But that doesn't mean there won't be girls/women who want to code or men who want to be nurses. We all are free to choose our own paths because we are human beings with free will. I know that's not the current zeitgeist, I'm hoping this won't matter in the future when AI writes all the code for us. I think AI will be much better overlords that the current crop of elites.

You may have missed a few publicized discoveries about the difficulties in eliminating bias in AI so far.... I too that hope AIs will one day become good "overlords" and colleagues but in the meantime they need a lot of work.

https://www.artificialintelligence-news.com/2018/07/27/aclu-amazon-facial-recognition-biased/

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...ias-really-happensand-why-its-so-hard-to-fix/
 
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Oh great :) Tell your son he's lucky because every other day of the year is international men's day! :)

You signed up just to make a blatantly false post? :p
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Literally EVERY day is “boys can code” day. Leave these poor little girls alone.

Every day is "anyone who wants to code can code" day. ;)
 
Every day is "anyone who wants to code can code" day. ;)

Not if you’re a little girl. If you’re a little girl every day is “girls can’t code because they supposedly have low aptitude for it or they are supposedly naturally adverse to doing it instead of playing with dolls and having pillow fights day.”

Anyone who thinks there’s something wrong with supporting a program to allow girls to at least be exposed to coding and to see that it’s a possible future path for them has some serious character flaws.
 
Not if you’re a little girl. If you’re a little girl every day is “girls can’t code because they supposedly have low aptitude for it or they are supposedly naturally adverse to doing it instead of playing with dolls and having pillow fights day.”

Anyone who thinks there’s something wrong with supporting a program to allow girls to at least be exposed to coding and to see that it’s a possible future path for them has some serious character flaws.

Who's telling their kids that?

Sounds like something made up to try to justify the reality that male and female tend towards different interests.

And it sure isn't "men's day" every day when we're endlessly on about women's issues, women's representation, actual discrimination in favor of women, etc. In engineering there's a massive focus on it but it hasn't made much of a dent, and the ones there are already in it so don't need to be preached to like they actually have a handicap (they don't).
 
Who's telling their kids that?

Sounds like something made up to try to justify the reality that male and female tend towards different interests.

And it sure isn't "men's day" every day when we're endlessly on about women's issues, women's representation, actual discrimination in favor of women, etc. In engineering there's a massive focus on it but it hasn't made much of a dent, and the ones there are already in it so don't need to be preached to like they actually have a handicap (they don't).

Lots of parents tell their kids that, and so do lots of teachers. Just because it never happened to you is no reason to doubt the experiences of other people. I teach a class for my young daughter and some of her friends on coding for swift. Been teaching it since she was eight. I’ve personally heard parents of other girls saying they didn’t see why I should do that since the girls won’t grow up to be coders.

As for engineers, I spent 8 years in engineering school and saw that many professors, all of whom by the way are men, did lots of things to make women feel like they didn’t belong there. And I was recently contacted by a female friend from high school who told me how the computer teacher in our high school went out of his way to get her to quit his class.

And, in the end, what the hell is the harm in spending one day a year to allow little girls to see that there can be a future in programming? Why does it scare people so much to think that more girls may end up pursuing careers in tech?
 
Lots of parents tell their kids that, and so do lots of teachers. Just because it never happened to you is no reason to doubt the experiences of other people. I teach a class for my young daughter and some of her friends on coding for swift. Been teaching it since she was eight. I’ve personally heard parents of other girls saying they didn’t see why I should do that since the girls won’t grow up to be coders.

As for engineers, I spent 8 years in engineering school and saw that many professors, all of whom by the way are men, did lots of things to make women feel like they didn’t belong there. And I was recently contacted by a female friend from high school who told me how the computer teacher in our high school went out of his way to get her to quit his class.

And, in the end, what the hell is the harm in spending one day a year to allow little girls to see that there can be a future in programming? Why does it scare people so much to think that more girls may end up pursuing careers in tech?

Other than the fact that it's discrimination, and teaching children no less that discrimination is acceptable, I wouldn't care. I do care about people spreading blatant lies about every day being "international men's day", which is among the most asinine and unsubstantiated statements one could make on the topic.

I have a hard time believing that any significant number of parents would discourage any of their kids from learning any kind of useful and employable skill at this point in time. It doesn't help your case that countries that are the most egalitarian end up with reduced female participation in STEM, commonly referred to as the "gender paradox."
 
And, in the end, what the hell is the harm in spending one day a year to allow little girls to see that there can be a future in programming? Why does it scare people so much to think that more girls may end up pursuing careers in tech?

I think “allow” is the wrong word here. Very few prohibit girls from exploring an interest in programming. They may discourage due to whatever prior stereotypes they had, but it’s definitely not prohibiting. Anecdotally, I mentor female software engineers, and I’ve had a different experience talking to them. They naturally gravitated to the sciences, and they just kinda did it.
 
I think “allow” is the wrong word here. Very few prohibit girls from exploring an interest in programming. They may discourage due to whatever prior stereotypes they had, but it’s definitely not prohibiting. Anecdotally, I mentor female software engineers, and I’ve had a different experience talking to them. They naturally gravitated to the sciences, and they just kinda did it.

The ones who made it are more likely to have had a better experience.

But if you are male and you are commenting on how it isn’t hard for girls and women, despite the fact that enough girls and women disagree with you that people feel the need to create programs like this, consider why it is that you think your opinion is worth anything at all.
 
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The ones who made it are more likely to have had a better experience.

But if you are male and you are commenting on how it isn’t hard for girls and women, despite the fact that enough girls and women disagree with you that people feel the need to create programs like this, consider why it is that you think your opinion is worth anything at all.

That might be a little harsh... it pays to hear dissenting opinions in order to wonder whether, over time, some adjusting maneuvers --like a bring your daughter to work day-- undertaken by people aware of discrimination have either caused a lot of unwarranted ill will or have caused people to start denying there was ever a problem. Either way some re-education on the need for adjustments, or else some explication du texte for the first time would then seem advisable.

For an HR group in a corporation, for example, I feel it's important not to stifle any grumbles about attempts to level playing fields. Better to know what they're thinking while they're still "just" systems analysts than discover it the hard way when they're senior vice presidents and hiring those analysts.
 
That might be a little harsh... it pays to hear dissenting opinions in order to wonder whether, over time, some adjusting maneuvers --like a bring your daughter to work day-- undertaken by people aware of discrimination have either caused a lot of unwarranted ill will or have caused people to start denying there was ever a problem. Either way some re-education on the need for adjustments, or else some explication du texte for the first time would then seem advisable.

For an HR group in a corporation, for example, I feel it's important not to stifle any grumbles about attempts to level playing fields. Better to know what they're thinking while they're still "just" systems analysts than discover it the hard way when they're senior vice presidents and hiring those analysts.

They’re not telling us how they’re feeling. These are men telling us what women are feeling.
 
Thank you, with everyone fixating on the issue of discrimination I was worried I was finally going to read a MacRumors thread where someone did not expose the evil Apple! Phew.

I'm not saying they're evil, they're running their business as usual. Every company wants cheap labour forces.

The fact that you immediately make a sarcastic comment about something that is just a fact says more about you than about me.
 
No.


I assume those who develop apps for the App Store will need to use a Mac. If they just want to learn to code, Swift playgrounds is excellent, and it’s an iPad app.

So where are all the Basic interpreters and the beginner's games done with them, directly on a phone? Lua? Hypercard clones?

One carefully limited app by Apple doesn't fix the problem. Can you make an app and publish it with swift playgrounds?
 
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