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Seriously, I would be interested to see what comes of all this and if governments will dare to challenge corporations in this way. Ultimately, they can decide to find another haven and another country happy to accept 1-5% tax revenue.

This is a global issue, not just related to the US, so there would need to be a global law change on tax. Which will probably not happen because of what I have said above.

Exactly - this is called a "fiscal war" and happens all the time on an international as well as on a domestic basis (in the latter case, particularly in large, federal States like Brazil and the US). Companies are ALWAYS fighting for better investment conditions and countries love to concede in order to win on the side of employment, technology transfers, cluster economies and so on

If the moronic duo Levin/McCain continues down that path, one can be sure that the US will quickly go the way of France - an investment-averse nation pushing out companies to other countries.
 
I don't understand your comment. Oh sure - I get that you're trying to be funny. But the amount of taxes paid is irrelevant to "enough."

If you owe 10B in taxes (not saying APPLE does) - 6B isn't enough. If you owe 4B - then 6B is more than enough.

But your comment is silly in context.

Dude, I must have ticked you off in another lifetime.
 
Carl Levin showed himself to be the biggest joke in this hearing, having already made up his mind that Apple had done something improper. You could tell from his accusatory tone and use of terms like "stash" and "bring home" when those terms do not apply and clearly do not reflect the fact pattern. Levin is simply an ******.

As for Rob Portman, apparently he wanted to take credit for everything under the sun because he took great pains to mention all of "his" plans and proposals. Huh, always on the campaign trail it seems. Washington has become a joke.

Instead of finding ways to promote and help our American companies better compete overseas, or finding ways to repatriate trillions in offshore money to grow our economy, they go after an American success story for being successful, following the law, and maximizing their profits as they are mandated to do to shareholders.

This was the biggest crock of ***** that I've ever seen.
 
Just stop for one minute and think about what's happening. Apple has been summoned to explain themselves for avoiding as much of our government's overbearing tax as possible (in a completely legal way). Our government wants to punish them anyway (or perhaps make an example of them), but since they have committed no crimes, all they can do is smear and harass Apple like this. Insanity. How long can we go on with a government like this?

It's a bipartisan panel - both sides a represented.
 
You can't make a good campaign commercial without a few clips of your self-serving self at some dog and pony show, er, I mean hearing.
 
Ayotte: If you were in our position, how important is it that we change the tax code to make this a good place for investment? What would you do? You're not the only corporation that has significant monies overseas right now.

Cook: It's vital to do, it's great for America to do. We would have a much stronger economy if we did that. It would create jobs and investment.

Ayotte: If we create more jobs and investment, that means more taxes too, right?

Cook: That's a very excellent point. All ships rise with the tide.


LOLOL. Wonder how Democrat Apple fanboys feel about this statement, which is a decidedly Republican trickle-down concept. Oh, the inherent contradictions of being a Democrat and an Apple fanboy. I love it. Cook needs to stick to grinning at SOTU speeches.
 
LOLOL. Wonder how Democrat Apple fanboys feel about this statement, which is a decidedly Republican trickle-down concept. Oh, the inherent contradictions of being a Democrat and an Apple fanboy. I love it. Cook needs to stick to grinning at SOTU speeches.
I thought you were required to be a Democrat to be a true Apple fanboy. Did I miss one of the sing-a-longs?
 
LOLOL. Wonder how Democrat Apple fanboys feel about this statement, which is a decidedly Republican trickle-down concept. Oh, the inherent contradictions of being a Democrat and an Apple fanboy. I love it. Cook needs to stick to grinning at SOTU speeches.

And since when are we supposed to be "communists" in order to like Apple?
 
Cool story bro. Except tax avoidance is COMPLETELY LEGAL, and practiced by any large firm with common sense.

Also practiced by everyone everywhere, including the Senators themselves, as Rand Paul pointed out. Apple would actually be in legal trouble with their shareholders if they didn't use every legal tax avoidance measure they can. They have a fiduciary responsibility not to pay more taxes than they legally owe.

The really crazy thing is that these Senators are upset with Apple over money earned overseas. Apple avoiding some foreign taxes should really not be worthy of a US subcommittee hearing. Even if Apple paid 100% tax on that $44 billion, it wouldn't go to the IRS, it'd go to Ireland. So why does Congress care?
 
My point wasn't that there isn't a need for some income tax or that there haven't been any benefits from it. It was simply to counter those saying we should tax the wealthiest at 90% (or whatever) simply because we used to.

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Better roads? 1950's, I think. Eisenhower. If I remember my freeway history, it took Dwight 50+ days to travel across the US when he was a soldier. He changed that when he was president.

I wasn't avocation is either, was just a statement.
 
No actually it was to point out that Apple shells its money in Ireland at 2% and has the audacity to say theyd like thier taxes lowered by 10% and would consider bringing back the shelled money if they could pay the same percentage of tax on it that you pay on a cup of coffee.

Get your facts straight.

Did you catch the part where Apple pays 30.5% US taxes on US profits? Compare that to G.E. who had a tax credit in recent years due to the messed up tax laws that give different deductions to each industry. G.E. actually took money out of the tax coffers. Apple is paying nearly twice of most American citizens pay.

Just because Ireland courted Apple to base their International operations in that country with a 2% tax rate it does not mean that Apple is cheating the USA out of taxes. Ireland decided to give Apple a 2% tax rate so 100% of Apple's international operations would be based out of Ireland and therefore Ireland would get 2% of a much larger number rather than 15% of a much smaller number. Something the USA should look into considering the 35% repatriation tax we charge in the United States.

What is Levin's problem? He thinks that sales of products built overseas, shipped overseas, sold in foreign retail stores to foreign customers should carry a larger US tax burden even though they were NOT built with US infrastructure in any way.

What part does Levin contest? He thinks that that these sales should essentially carry an Intellectual Property surcharge back to US-based Apple, Inc. and therefore the US would be able to tax foreign sales. Instead, Apple has setup a scenario where the Ireland-based holding company holds shares IP rights with the US-based Apple, Inc. The Ireland-based company has the rights to sell products with that intellectual property internationally. Keep in mind that Apple's biggest profit center is the USA and much of that "intellectual property" was developed by people educated in China, India, and Japan who just happen to live in Cupertino, CA now and work for Apple. Sure Americans worked on much of the IP too, but its a real stretch to say that because those people were educated in the USA that a percentage of their works that are built, advertised and sold overseas should come back to the USA.

Apple probably pays a higher corporate tax rate than 90% of the companies out there. Take one look at the automotive industry or companies like GE and you will see where the real problem is.

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Well, they never really answer the question anyway, right? A simple question that only needs a yes or no, ends up with 10 sentences where 9 of them were irrelevant, and only there to confuse you.

Oppenheimer could not even finish one sentence. Levin was trying to imply that the 2008 agreement "shifted" things. In reality, it simply renewed the exact same agreement that was signed in 1980. No shift at all. But Levin would not let Oppenheimer say that and kept cutting him off. Sometimes Oppenheimer barely uttered a sound when Levin started talking over him. Like a judge in a court room you can't get into a shouting match with the guy because he runs the room. Total abuse of his position for grand-standing.

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Yup. Levin comes off looking like the Lame Old School Piece of Detroit Iron of yesteryear.

This is his last Congress. Forget about it. It will be back to WWDC by Friday. :apple:

He's not running again, but I hear the guy the Democrats are putting up instead (Gary Peters) is just as bad. There is also evidence pointing to Levin being behind the IRS scandal targeting conservative groups to hold up their tax exempt status. This is probably why he is not running again -- because his own party would throw him under the bus to distance themselves from that scandal.
 
There is also evidence pointing to Levin being behind the IRS scandal targeting conservative groups to hold up their tax exempt status. This is probably why he is not running again -- because his own party would throw him under the bus to distance themselves from that scandal.

You have a link for that? I haven't seen that reported anywhere.
 
Levin: "America's revenue"

No, Mr. Levin, this is not America's revenue. This is Apple's revenue. They worked for it, they earned it. Just because you want it, doesn't make it yours.
 
LOLOL. Wonder how Democrat Apple fanboys feel about this statement, which is a decidedly Republican trickle-down concept. Oh, the inherent contradictions of being a Democrat and an Apple fanboy. I love it. Cook needs to stick to grinning at SOTU speeches.

Of course, when Cook says that, he implies that companies would use the new tax structure to invest more in well-paying US jobs, which I like to think Apple would do, rather than just pay the top people more money, like many US companies do currently. The trickle-down concept might actually work if the people controlling the money did what's fair (fair wage for efforts) rather than simply pass all the money back and forth amongst each other to make each other richer.
 
Cool story bro. Except tax avoidance is COMPLETELY LEGAL, and practiced by any large firm with common sense.

And that's why the US economy is going down the tubes.
When corporations play shell games with money to avoid paying an honest share of taxes, everyone suffers, especially the poor and the needy since they are always the ones thrown under the bus while the fat cats continue to rake in the dough.
I am amazed that all the fanboys think that this is something to brag about or defend.
 
And that's why the US economy is going down the tubes.
When corporations play shell games with money to avoid paying an honest share of taxes, everyone suffers, especially the poor and the needy since they are always the ones thrown under the bus while the fat cats continue to rake in the dough.
I am amazed that all the fanboys think that this is something to brag about or defend.

You seem to have confused agreeing that this is legal with bragging or defending. Apple has done nothing wrong, nor has google or any other company that does this.

I am amazed that you are saying companies should willingly pay more in taxes than they are legally obligated to.

Change the law, not get mad at the companies that follow the law because you have some romanticized idea of what's "fair"
 
You seem to have confused agreeing that this is legal with bragging or defending. Apple has done nothing wrong, nor has google or any other company that does this.

I am amazed that you are saying companies should willingly pay more in taxes than they are legally obligated to.

Change the law, not get mad at the companies that follow the law because you have some romanticized idea of what's "fair"

I'd also add that the US economy isn't "going down the tubes" because companies aren't paying enough taxes. :)
 
And that's why the US economy is going down the tubes.
When corporations play shell games with money to avoid paying an honest share of taxes, everyone suffers, especially the poor and the needy since they are always the ones thrown under the bus while the fat cats continue to rake in the dough.
I am amazed that all the fanboys think that this is something to brag about or defend.

How is it that this country grew from 13 colonies to a world super power without a major income or corporate tax? Tell me how more taxes helps us grow and be successful?
 
You have a link for that? I haven't seen that reported anywhere.

It appears that he is the one who initiated the IRS being skeptical of conservative groups tax exempt status. It is uncertain how much is documented:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...ing-benefited-obama-presidential-campaign.htm

http://freebeacon.com/under-pressure-2/

These are from right-leaning (possibly right-extremist) journalists from what I can tell, but Carl Levin (Michigan Senator) and his brother Sander Levin (Michigan Congressman) are the first to be throwing Lois Lerner under the bus and calling for her resignation and then of course she is taking the fifth amendment before Congress.

I usually don't buy this ultra right-wing stuff, but something seems really fishy here and Lois Lerner looks like she is being asked to take the fall to protect others. Especially considering she won't incriminate herself (or others) in testimony.

The fact that Carl Levin initially pressured the IRS to investigate Citizen's United and several other groups seems to connect him to this in a bad way as well.
 
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Instead of finding ways to promote and help our American companies better compete overseas, or finding ways to repatriate trillions in offshore money to grow our economy, they go after an American success story for being successful, following the law, and maximizing their profits as they are mandated to do to shareholders.

Also practiced by everyone everywhere, including the Senators themselves, as Rand Paul pointed out. Apple would actually be in legal trouble with their shareholders if they didn't use every legal tax avoidance measure they can. They have a fiduciary responsibility not to pay more taxes than they legally owe.

Okay, these are things I need explained to me.

Can someone tell me where it is "mandated" that a company maximize profits for shareholders?

And even moreso, legal trouble? So I can sue a company I invest in if I find out they aren't avoiding taxes as much as I'd like?

Both of these things sound like things very self-involved greedy people say.
 
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