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Apple CEO Tim Cook and CFO Peter Oppenheimer Testify In Front of Senate Committee on Tax Strategies [Hearing Over]

It's quite comical to read through these posts. No one is ever going to completely agree who is "right" or "wrong", or which is the "right way" to correct the situation.

Apple (and the countless other companies that use these same strategies) certainly do not deserve the overwhelming majority of the blame. The problem exists within the tax code and with politicians that have done nothing about them for years. However, Apple's claim that they "do not use tax gimmicks" is one of their many spin tactics that the overly-fanatic Apple supporters will clink to as "proof" Apple is in the right.

I love my Apple products, but it's hard to keep supporting them as a company when they make statements like that. I honestly believe that Tim Cook could announce in the hearing that for every $1 more in tax they are forced to pay, Apple will kill a puppy, and some people on these forums would say "Apple's really doing us a favor because puppies are a problem". Insanity! Step outside of the bubble, lay off the kool-aid, and stop thinking that Apple can do no wrong. The arrogance emitting from Cupertino is quite putrid.
 
Lol. Shareholders already pay taxes on their capital gains and dividends. This committee is ****ing useless. The only thing Ron Johnson will do is tax your IRAs and 401ks 2x. Once when paid dividends and again when you withdraw at retirement.
 
Ryth said:
The difference is that Apple actually has a real presence and employees in that location

http://www.chron.com/technology/bus...ple-Office-In-Ireland-That-Booked-4534675.php

Levin and them continue to say that Apple does NOT have employees or a presence there which is not true. The same is not true of Google.


  • Apple has been in Ireland for a long time. Its Cork operations were set up in 1980.
  • It's not just a letterbox. Apple employs 4,000 people to move its billions around the world.
  • It's been through good times and bad. When Apple lost market share in the 1990s, the Irish subsidiaries had to fund Apple's R&D without enough incoming cash, and the company nearly went bankrupt.
  • It's perfectly legal. To quote the report: "Apple's cost sharing agreement is regularly audited by the IRS and complies fully with all applicable Treasury regulations. "

Google meanwhile (and others) have letterboxes in Dutch and Cayman tax havens and don't employ more then a few employees.
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Are you listening? They acknowledged that recently, Apple has employees on record. They didn't for at least a few years.

And again - we can debate whether or not other companies SHOULD be up there. They aren't. That doesn't diminish the value of the conversation and whether or not these practices need to change.

I understand you and others are upset about the fact it's Apple. And I don't think it's "right" per se. But consider this analogy. Lots of people speed all the time. One person gets pulled over. Sucks for that person. Can't really say they didn't deserve to get caught.

And no - I do not think Apple has done anything illegal under the current laws. And I understand my analogy is about something illegal.
 
"- Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) - "Who benefits from Apple's tax strategy?" Professor Harvey: The shareholders. Johnson goes on to say that corporate tax rates should be eliminated entirely and corporate income should be taxed at the shareholder level."

This is the most clever things ever read on this subject.
 
Silvereel said:
That's all well and good, except that 'liberal' no longer means liberal. Liberal is now a code word for high taxes, massive government, and free handouts. If we still used it to mean what it actually means, I would be quite happy to be a liberal. If anyone at the hearing is representing an actual liberal position, it's Rand Paul.
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Exactly. Liberal is a term associated with big government, handouts, high taxes and entitlements.
 
Sen. Paul and Johnson (among others) advance the notion that we should do away with all Corporate income taxes, and instead tax corporate profits when they are distributed to shareholders - either as dividends, or through the sale of shares.

While appealing on some levels (it does away with the dreaded "double taxation") it is a fundamentally unworkable idea.

For one thing, it would allow wealthy families and individuals to further concentrate their economic power, further increasing the (already dangerously high) level of income and wealth inequality in this country.

Secondly, Corporations already enjoy many of the benefits of economic personhood. Corporations make use of the services provided by the State (i.e.. law enforcement; courts; roads and highways; ports; national security' Federally funded research.) There is no reason whatsoever that they should not contribute to the funding of those activities - at the same time as they are using them, rather than deferring (perhaps indefinitely) until such point as they start paying out dividends.

The fairest, most practical means of rectifying the situation of companies such as Apple - which have built up vast cash hoards overseas - is to restructure the tax code in such a way that it gives an incentive for them to repatriate their overseas earning.
 
Rand is up right now and out of the gate is owning these guys and the liberals on the committee.
 
Ryth said:
Rand is up right now and out of the gate is owning these guys and the liberals on the committee.
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Exactly. I normally don't like the guy, but he's right. "Apple is a great American company. Why are we vilifying them????"
 
John.B said:
I've never seen a "flat tax" proposal that wouldn't increase my effective tax rate. Or a "national sales tax" proposal that wouldn't come with huge loopholes (i.e. home purchases). And every effort to "fix" perceived inequities creates a more complex tax code.
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So it is ok that other peoples taxes go up but yours? :rolleyes:
 
Mr.damien said:
"- Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) - "Who benefits from Apple's tax strategy?" Professor Harvey: The shareholders. Johnson goes on to say that corporate tax rates should be eliminated entirely and corporate income should be taxed at the shareholder level."

This is the most clever things ever read on this subject.
Click to expand...

One of the dumbest things really.

Shareholders already pay taxes on their capital gains and dividends. This committee is ****ing useless. The only thing Ron Johnson will do is tax your IRAs and 401ks 2x. Once when paid dividends and again when you withdraw at retirement
 
RBMaraman said:
I honestly believe that Tim Cook could announce in the hearing that for every $1 more in tax they are forced to pay, Apple will kill a puppy, and some people on these forums would say "Apple's really doing us a favor because puppies are a problem". Insanity! Step outside of the bubble, lay off the kool-aid, and stop thinking that Apple can do no wrong. The arrogance emitting from Cupertino is quite putrid.
Click to expand...

HA! I love this comment. Thanks for adding humor in what is becoming a battle of politics :)
 
samcraig said:
Are you listening? They acknowledged that recently, Apple has employees on record. They didn't for at least a few years.

And again - we can debate whether or not other companies SHOULD be up there. They aren't. That doesn't diminish the value of the conversation and whether or not these practices need to change.

I understand you and others are upset about the fact it's Apple. And I don't think it's "right" per se. But consider this analogy. Lots of people speed all the time. One person gets pulled over. Sucks for that person. Can't really say they didn't deserve to get caught.

And no - I do not think Apple has done anything illegal under the current laws. And I understand my analogy is about something illegal.
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No they didn't...read again

Levin and the committie continue to say that Apple does NOT have employees or a presence there which is not true.

This has nothing to do with Apple. This has to do with the moronic democrats on the committee that are absolutely clueless and are the reason companies leave the USA
 
Porshuh944turbo said:
Sadly, sometimes there is not, but if you look at my words, I didn't say Democrat or Republican. I said, "liberal" (as opposed to conservative). There is a big difference.
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A liberal is a forward thinker and doesn't have anything to do with politics. When you using it in a political way, it's the same as saying democrat or republican.
 
Bravo to

Bravo to Rand Paul!

Boo-hiss to Levin. Levin should get audited and made to pay taxes on his gross income with no deductions or other fancy tricks he uses to reduce his tax liability.

Apple has done nothing wrong and they're paying more income tax than probably all of Congress put together.
 
Mac21ND said:
Exactly. I normally don't like the guy, but he's right. "Apple is a great American company. Why are we vilifying them????"
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Seriously, I understand people not liking Rand, but take a minute and actually read what these guys believe in. It's actually more 'American' then any democratic or republican view.

And yes, Rand is spot on...owning everyone on that committee right now.
 
Ryth said:
No they didn't...read again

Levin and the committie continue to say that Apple does NOT have employees or a presence there which is not true.

This has nothing to do with Apple. This has to do with the moronic democrats on the committee that are absolutely clueless and are the reason companies leave the USA
Click to expand...

I don't have to read. I heard it with my own ears. Again - are you LISTENING or just reading a short handed transcript?
 
spazzcat said:
A liberal is a forward thinker and doesn't have anything to do with politics. When you using it in a political way, it's the same as saying democrat or republican.
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No, you are wrong. Liberal and conservative are not interchangeable with with the names of political parties. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.
 
HAHA...The tax experts are now going on the record to make sure they aren't known for vilifying Apple...haha.

Rand scared them good.

----------
pubwvj said:
No, you are wrong. Liberal and conservative are not interchangeable with with the names of political parties. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.
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Exactly...I consider myself the same thing...social liberal with issues and fiscal conservative when it comes to spending and responsibility.

I call that a moderate.
 
guzhogi said:
As I've said, I think AMerica should really redo it's tax code as well as the services it provides. Get rid of all programs except for military and infrastructure. Maybe eliminate all income tax, make a national sales tax. Have sales tax go to something that relates to what was bought. Like gas and cars goes to better roads and research of better gas mileage cars. Maybe legalize marijuana and put the sales tax to medical care/research and education. Textbook taxes go to schools. Internet service go to better network infrastructure. Stuff like that.

Instead of eliminating income tax instantly, maybe set a flat income tax, maybe 15-20% for everyone & everything (individuals, companies, capital gains, etc.). Have that to pay down the deficit while slowly dropping the percentage so that both drop to 0 at the same time.

Another thing that needs to happen is people stop looking at the bottom line. Sure, take what you need, plus a little more to have a little fun, but start focusing more on improving yourself and others.
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A flat tax would raise taxes on the poorest people in this country.
 
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