Apple CEO Tim Cook Calls for Stronger Privacy Regulations Following 'Dire' Facebook Data Scandal

[RickInHouston]

If you have a Google account you can go in and they have control panels that allow you to see a shocking and impressive amount of data that they have recorded and collected on you, including all voice commands to Google Assistant on your account and you can delete it all. You can also modify or turn off the collection of location or searches.

The problem is there is no way to be sure turning off all of that stuff turns it off for Google or just blocks it from your sight. They were caught collecting location data on phones that had location tracking turned off, so there is that to consider.

Another problem is that as you start using various functions on their apps or others that connect to your Google account, more data collection gets turned on. Even if it needs your permission and can be deleted later, it is more work than most people want to bother with to use Google's granular controls to delete and turn it all off again.

So, the path of least resistance is always going to be the default of allowing some data collection. In return I do get services and features that work incredibly well.

Facebook is different in that they were annoying and all of their shenanigans sabotaged the good things I joined to enjoy in the first place. By the time I left them I saw no benefit to FB whatsoever.

During the run up to the last US Presidential election, I saw friends fighting tooth and nail over fake news. I got emotionally exhausted messaging everyone to tell them that they were getting all worked up over stories about things that never happened or that were grossly distorted from legitimate news stories. Don't get me started on the proliferation of inaccurate and biased memes.

I saw lifelong friendships disintegrate on Facebook. It was frustrating seeing the manipulation take place and being able to wake up only a few friends about it. I saw otherwise intelligent friends lose their ever loving minds over the dreck that floated through the FB feeds. It was like watching some horrid social experiment conducted by psychopaths masquerading as scientists.

Very, very few people seemed able to stay the course and use FB as a simple vechicle for staying in touch via sharing of pictures and videos and a few snippets of updates on themselves. Too much came at us that was designed to inflame and draw out commentary and activism.

Oh, the horror. Google knows I wake up at 6 am. Sets alarms for me. Turns on my coffee pot from upstairs and knows I have a kid that needs help with his homework every now and then.
[doublepost=1521942338][/doublepost]

This is spot on.

Whether social media is “good” or “bad” really depends on what people post about themselves. I suppose if they’re not embarrassed or simply don’t care about what they post (and the potential ramifications of doing so), then social media is seen as a good thing.

Personally, I do use Facebook but it’s pretty sparse throughout the week. I’ll log in (I never stay logged in on FB on my phone- no thank you!) to briefly check my feed to see what’s going on in people’s lives, or to post something fun about my life.

But it’s always a one-off sort of thing for me, and like I said it’s brief and I never stay logged in. I’ll post a pic or leave a comment and that’s it. I’ll then come back in a few days. There is no “need” for me to be constantly logged in to Facebook. I don’t use it as a photo stream of my life, nor do I use it for news or any of that. I also don’t use Twitter or Snapchat. Does that make me a social pariah or troglodyte? Perhaps. I’m 33 though, so I’m not exactly old.

It also bothers me when I see my friends, who have families now and young kids, posting pics and vids of their kids on social media (e.g. online). I wonder what their kids will think when they grow older knowing their whole life (for better or worse) has been publically viewed online and their data harvested. At least we, and previous generations, had the choice whether we wanted ourselves on social media. Generation Z never was given that choice, and it will be interesting to see if they approve of that in the coming decades.

What does data harvesting really mean? Its an ominous sounding two word sound bite that doesn't bother me. Sorry. I use Google but have no Facebook account.

 

[stylinexpat]

Oh, the horror. Google knows I wake up at 6 am. Sets alarms for me. Turns on my coffee pot from upstairs and knows I have a kid that needs help with his homework every now and then.
[doublepost=1521942338][/doublepost]

What does data harvesting really mean? Its an ominous sounding two word sound bite that doesn't bother me. Sorry. I use Google but have no Facebook account.

Some people do not mind to share everything with Google while others do. When it is an option I have no objection but when it is not an option then I object.

As an example, Apple currently allows us to save our contacts to our smartphone. We have the “OPTION” to save them on to iCloud as well but that is “IF WE WANT TO” and we also have the “OPTION” to save via sync on iTunes to our computers. Apple gives us 3 options where as “GOOGLE” on the Pixel 2 only gives their users 1 option and that is to save everything to the their cloud server which happens to be Gmail. This means that everything from contacts,calls to pictures all goes on their servers so it is a bit more then just Google knows when I wake up in the morning.

I want my contacts,calls and pictures on my iPhone only and not on some cloud server. Those that do not care should have that option to upload everything to the cloud server. For me my cloud server is my computer. I back up on my computer.

 

[BootsWalking]

Those Facebook users got exactly what they deserved. They knew the risks when they signed up with Facebook that Facebook practically owned all their personal data. I really don't see why consumers would be so shocked by this scandal. The big investors certainly don't care how Facebook monetizes their business and I'm sure they're happy Facebook is sucking every piece of detailed information from consumers and using it against them to stuff their eyeballs with massive amounts of ads. When a consumer wants a free service they should realize nothing is ever free and sometimes they don't always see the actual price they're paying. In this case, it's just their privacy.

Tim Cook makes a big deal about privacy but consumers don't even care all that much about their own privacy. Apple has never been praised for protecting consumers' privacy and Apple is practically being penalized for doing so. Wall Street values Facebook much higher than Apple because Facebook can data-mine all those consumers to death. Apple turns out to be the big loser for not using those same data-mining techniques that all the most valued FANG stocks do. I'm sure Facebook is going to come back even stronger now that Zuckerberg has made a sincere apology. That's all it takes to make big investors happy if a company is only given a slap on the wrist and allowed to continue doing what it has been doing in the past. Facebook isn't going anywhere. No analysts have been telling investors to dump their Facebook stock. The analysts know the Feds aren't going to regulate Facebook or companies like Facebook who data-mine their users. It's doubtful many Facebook users are going to delete their accounts because they're so addicted to those social apps, they can't quit them. Those people are basically social app junkies who need their daily fix.

The FANG stocks will never be federally regulated, so they'll always stay highly valued and become the most powerful companies on the planet and continue doing whatever they please with consumers' information. If you want to dance to the FANG stock's free music you have to pay the piper by giving them your personal information. It seems like a fair trade for most users of those free services. Good for them.
[doublepost=1521924980][/doublepost]

Any user can change the default search engine to another one of their own choices with just a couple of clicks. I'm sure most MacOS or iOS users know this much. There are plenty of other search engines to choose from. It's not like Tim Cook is forcing any user to stay with the default Google search engine. You can't blame Tim Cook for something like that. Google probably begged Tim Cook to use Google as the default search engine and none of the other search engine companies wanted to bid for the right.

The ease or difficulty at which a user can change his default search engine is not material to the discussion. Tim Cook gave a long speech years ago about how selling user data as a business model was horrible, all while his company was accepting billions in secret payments from the company he was implicating as the worst offender of the practice. Mr. Cook can't have it both ways.

As for your comment about no other companies wanting to bid for the right to be the default search engine on the most lucrative smartphone platform on the planet, you're 180 degrees wrong, for lots of reasons beyond the billion$ of reasons Google gave.

 

[scrapesleon]

They already stole your data you think a delete Facebook campaign is gonna stop them, wrong data can’t be erase on the internet

 

[canadianreader]

Stopped using Facebook for years. Some people just don’t care about their privacy they’ll continue to use it it’s a some sort of addiction

 

[pika2000]

Well well, people are quickly bashing China just based on their own paradigm of China.

But let’s ignore how many CCTVs are there in the UK. Let’s support the Democratic Party in the US who keep supporting the Patriot Act. Let’s outcast whistleblowers and consider them as traitors. Oh yeah, and let’s support Google instead.

It’s hilarious.

 

[Ramchi]

Some people do not mind to share everything with Google while others do. When it is an option I have no objection but when it is not an option then I object.

As an example, Apple currently allows us to save our contacts to our smartphone. We have the “OPTION” to save them on to iCloud as well but that is “IF WE WANT TO” and we also have the “OPTION” to save via sync on iTunes to our computers. Apple gives us 3 options where as “GOOGLE” on the Pixel 2 only gives their users 1 option and that is to save everything to the their cloud server which happens to be Gmail. This means that everything from contacts,calls to pictures all goes on their servers so it is a bit more then just Google knows when I wake up in the morning.

I want my contacts,calls and pictures on my iPhone only and not on some cloud server. Those that do not care should have that option to upload everything to the cloud server. For me my cloud server is my computer. I back up on my computer.

This is just NOT an option for many.

When phone gets stolen or data get lost, they don't want to run into another device to restore back up.

Daily or frequent Back up is a good option for people those who do it regularly and very disciplined. Most of the people may not even use secondary devices as frequently
[doublepost=1521968677][/doublepost]

Those Facebook users got exactly what they deserved. They knew the risks when they signed up with Facebook that Facebook practically owned all their personal data. I really don't see why consumers would be so shocked by this scandal. The big investors certainly don't care how Facebook monetizes their business and I'm sure they're happy Facebook is sucking every piece of detailed information from consumers and using it against them to stuff their eyeballs with massive amounts of ads. When a consumer wants a free service they should realize nothing is ever free and sometimes they don't always see the actual price they're paying. In this case, it's just their privacy.

Tim Cook makes a big deal about privacy but consumers don't even care all that much about their own privacy. Apple has never been praised for protecting consumers' privacy and Apple is practically being penalized for doing so. Wall Street values Facebook much higher than Apple because Facebook can data-mine all those consumers to death. Apple turns out to be the big loser for not using those same data-mining techniques that all the most valued FANG stocks do. I'm sure Facebook is going to come back even stronger now that Zuckerberg has made a sincere apology. That's all it takes to make big investors happy if a company is only given a slap on the wrist and allowed to continue doing what it has been doing in the past. Facebook isn't going anywhere. No analysts have been telling investors to dump their Facebook stock. The analysts know the Feds aren't going to regulate Facebook or companies like Facebook who data-mine their users. It's doubtful many Facebook users are going to delete their accounts because they're so addicted to those social apps, they can't quit them. Those people are basically social app junkies who need their daily fix.

The FANG stocks will never be federally regulated, so they'll always stay highly valued and become the most powerful companies on the planet and continue doing whatever they please with consumers' information. If you want to dance to the FANG stock's free music you have to pay the piper by giving them your personal information. It seems like a fair trade for most users of those free services. Good for them.
[doublepost=1521924980][/doublepost]

Any user can change the default search engine to another one of their own choices with just a couple of clicks. I'm sure most MacOS or iOS users know this much. There are plenty of other search engines to choose from. It's not like Tim Cook is forcing any user to stay with the default Google search engine. You can't blame Tim Cook for something like that. Google probably begged Tim Cook to use Google as the default search engine and none of the other search engine companies wanted to bid for the right.

I am really surprised that people still believe some corporations do not data mine our behaviour! So long nothing is under consumers control consumers control nothing!

All corporations mine data, do analytics, some sell it some don't (due to protect itself from competition not because they love consumer privacy). Those who don't sell, will use it for its own good. No one can stop this in the current scheme of things

 

[stylinexpat]

Those who want that constant backup option have that option on an iPhone. If you want it then it is there. If you don’t then you can do it on your own. Being imposed upon you with no choice or option is not right.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

If there's nothing to force Facebook and google into responsible use of the personal data of the worlds human population, and the people demand it, it's eventually going to land on governments to require them to. There is no other party with the power to do it. Certainly not individual users, who aren't paying customers. That's the pig threatening to boycott the butcher.

Either innovate replacements for Facebook, Google, eBay etc with long-overdue better companies (piece of cake), and cross your fingers that the earths humans act against their own nature and abandon the most popular internet brands overnight, or prepare to be force to perform up, to the high ethical and safety standards of... the US Government lol

 

[0388631]

What's the point of Facebook? All it's done is destroy social environments that existed beforehand. No more new news or surprise in day to day discussions with friends and family. Don't even get me started on people taking pictures of their food or sharing five hundred images of their cat, dog or child(ren).

There are plenty of people in my life I'd rather keep at arm's length rather then deal with them every day.

 

[laz232]

Years ago Tim gave a speech railing against the user data-as-product business model of Silicon Valley, with the implied target being Google. Then we found out a few years later that Apple receives billions of dollars a year from Google to make Google the default search engine on Safari. I wonder how many years from today we'll find out Apple receives billions of dollars a year from Facebook for their integration into iOS. Hypocrite much Tim?

Exactly - Apple does not want competition in the user-profiling business. He cares about *MONEY* in the form of AAPL, the users are pawns. A few years ago (Facebook was creepy back then as well):
"Apple just announced at WWDC 2012 that Facebook will be deeply integrated into iOS 6 including single sign-on for apps, quick sharing from Notifications, Siri integration, contact syncing, sharing buttons in the iTunes and App Stores, communication with friends from Game Center, and a public API."

Like how Apple was all comfortable with giving the Uber app all sorts of privileges?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...p-could-secretly-record-iphone-users-screens/

"I think that this certain situation is so dire and has become so large that probably some well-crafted regulation is necessary" - yes... we only want Government authorized snooping (cough, PRISM, cough). Then it's all nice and legal - just like in the STASI days.
[doublepost=1521981396][/doublepost]

If there's nothing to force Facebook and google into responsible use of the personal data of the worlds human population, and the people demand it, it's eventually going to land on governments to require them to. There is no other party with the power to do it. Certainly not individual users, who aren't paying customers. That's the pig threatening to boycott the butcher.

Either innovate replacements for Facebook, Google, eBay etc with long-overdue better companies (piece of cake), and cross your fingers that the earths humans act against their own nature and abandon the most popular internet brands overnight, or prepare to be force to perform up, to the high ethical and safety standards of... the US Government lol

We need to realize that the underlying business models of FB, Twitter, Uber etc are unsustainable - it's not about engineering a better product - it's about transparency of selling user's as products through venture capitalists to banks to be bailed out by the public.

 

[Plutonius]

Somewhat ironic. He made that comment in Beijing .

 

[I7guy]

Somewhat ironic. He made that comment in Beijing .

Why? In China there is no illusion of privacy, unlike Facebook in the USA who is “supposed” to be protecting the privacy of its clients.

 

[Plutonius]

Why? In China there is no illusion of privacy, unlike Facebook in the USA who is “supposed” to be protecting the privacy of its clients.

Because Tim says he supports privacy while not objecting to China's lack of privacy (i.e. a double standard).

 

[I7guy]

Because Tim says he supports privacy while not objecting to China's lack of privacy (i.e. a double standard).

It’s only a double standard to those trying to catch Tim. Apple as other foreign companies doing business in China have to adhere to local rules and regulations.

 

[fairuz]

Agreed. Crap like that doesn't belong in an OS, let lone macOS.

Have you ever tried using it? It's useful for when people invite me to stuff via Facebook (which is what everyone uses here), and it goes into my calendar automatically. And that's pretty much all it does, aside from notifications and a few "share to Facebook" options. AND it's optional, off by default.

If they remove it, I'm not updating my macOS. Believe me, I care way more about meeting with my friends than having an operating system that conforms to the UNIX ideology.
[doublepost=1522002600][/doublepost]

If Apple were truly serious about user privacy and not in making feel-good points they'd have stripped Google from iOS,Safari years ago and removed Facebook integration among other things.

Those are all optional. You can use whatever search engine you want and choose not to use Facebook. Most of us don't want to waste time using a crappy search engine like DuckDuckGo, and it makes sense for the default to be what most people want.
[doublepost=1522002848][/doublepost]

Despite the naysayers, Apple’s strong focus on privacy will be good for their business, in the long run.

IDK. It seems to be hindering their AI development. And whatever convoluted system they use for iMessage, it's making my messages appear out of order. They better hope people get sick of Google mining their data because otherwise Google will develop the superior services.
[doublepost=1522003254][/doublepost]

If there's nothing to force Facebook and google into responsible use of the personal data of the worlds human population, and the people demand it, it's eventually going to land on governments to require them to. There is no other party with the power to do it. Certainly not individual users, who aren't paying customers. That's the pig threatening to boycott the butcher.

Either innovate replacements for Facebook, Google, eBay etc with long-overdue better companies (piece of cake), and cross your fingers that the earths humans act against their own nature and abandon the most popular internet brands overnight, or prepare to be force to perform up, to the high ethical and safety standards of... the US Government lol

If people are aware of the privacy dangers, which I'm not saying they are yet, let them decide. If they really care, anyone can use open alternatives or just abandon the services. If they don't care, then what's the problem? No need to restrict users' choices, especially via the government. Also, fairly regulating closed services like Facebook is darn near impossible.

 

[stylinexpat]

If there's nothing to force Facebook and google into responsible use of the personal data of the worlds human population, and the people demand it, it's eventually going to land on governments to require them to. There is no other party with the power to do it. Certainly not individual users, who aren't paying customers. That's the pig threatening to boycott the butcher.

Either innovate replacements for Facebook, Google, eBay etc with long-overdue better companies (piece of cake), and cross your fingers that the earths humans act against their own nature and abandon the most popular internet brands overnight, or prepare to be force to perform up, to the high ethical and safety standards of... the US Government lol

There is a reason that China does not allow Google and Facebook into China and a reason why Germany is so hard on Facebook and Google in Germany when it comes to privacy rights.
[doublepost=1522005781][/doublepost]

Have you ever tried using it? It's useful for when people invite me to stuff via Facebook (which is what everyone uses here), and it goes into my calendar automatically. And that's pretty much all it does, aside from notifications and a few "share to Facebook" options. AND it's optional, off by default.

If they remove it, I'm not updating my macOS. Believe me, I care way more about meeting with my friends than having an operating system that conforms to the UNIX ideology.
[doublepost=1522002600][/doublepost]
Those are all optional. You can use whatever search engine you want and choose not to use Facebook. Believe it or not, most of us don't want to waste time using a crappy search engine like DuckDuckGo, and it makes sense for the default to be what most people want.
[doublepost=1522002848][/doublepost]
IDK. It seems to be hindering their AI development. And whatever convoluted system they use for iMessage, it's making my messages appear out of order. They better hope people get sick of Google mining their data because otherwise Google will develop the superior services.
[doublepost=1522003254][/doublepost]
If people are aware of the privacy dangers, which I'm not saying they are yet, let them decide. If they really care, anyone can use open alternatives or just abandon the services. If they don't care, then what's the problem? No need to restrict users' choices, especially via the government. Also, fairly regulating closed services like Facebook is darn near impossible.

Facebook has a lot of great things going for it so don’t get me wrong there. In Asia many business owners love Facebook as it gets their business name out there. In most cases it brings them business. When a customer likes to buy certain clothes or makeup at a certain place and checks in with a picture of the latest makeup product or shirt she just bought then all her friends and friends of friends know where to go to shop for the sameness item. Believe it or not quite a few end up going in search of that item or a similar item. Same goes for food where if a person posted an appetizing picture of a great fish from a great restaurant many of her or his friends will put that restaurant on their to visit list. They then also check in to show their friends that they have also been to that place to eat. Face thing in Asia is quite big and the same with the Middle East so if someone checks in to a nice place to eat,visit or buy something then the chances are very high that a friend of their will want to do the same. So from a business owners point of view the Facebook thing is the best thing since cheesecake hut from a personal person’s point of view who cares about privacy and does not care about all these things they do not want to share all their contact info with Facebook, their whole photo album with facebook, their whole website browsing habits with facebook, all their incoming and outgoing emails with a Facebook along with which servers they have email accounts,share all their other social media app accounts with Facebook,share all their locations with Facebook and share all their call logs with Facebook. Let’s not forget all the incoming and outgoing text messages too. So depending on which side you are looking at it from Facebook is either the best thing ever or worst thing ever. Good or bad depends on how you are looking at it.
[doublepost=1522006219][/doublepost]

Somewhat ironic. He made that comment in Beijing .

Very true, to Apple China has huge positives and huge negatives for it. At the end I reckon his final decision will be what the locals have to live with and accept. He would figure that if they can accept it and have to accept it then so must he to be part of the market share. One must either compromise to be in a communist country or simply be out of that market. I have yet to see a communist country with an uncensored and open market.

Look what they do today in America and Israel when you enter customs and immigration at the airport. They take your smartphone away and search it. Israel developed a device that basically hacks into your smartphone to get all the information out of it. Whether or not you approve they take it and get the info they want and then return it back to you. Same thing really at the end of the day.

 

[Karma*Police]

Give people information. They can decide if they want to delete Facebook. Facebook is voluntary and people need to understand they are putting their lives on the Internet if they so choose. More government regulation/control isn’t the answer. When people start leaving Facebook change will happen.

Tim Cook should understand this better than anyone. People trust Apple because Apple goes above and beyond with privacy and the government didn’t make them do that.

I think that’s true but if people truly cared about their privacy, Google apps and services wouldn’t be so popular on iOS, and Android, essentially a spyware in your pocket, wouldn’t be the most popular OS in history.

I don’t use FB myself, but I think FB is being unfairly targeted by angry people for a lot of outrageous things, like the outcome of the elections and the fall of democracy... really?? I mean, c’mon... propaganda and manipulating the masses has been an art form for thousands of years.

So I think this “breach”, if you can even call it that, is being blown up in the media cos it gets clicks, whereas the Equifax breach, which was exponentially worse in every way possible, got a lot less media attention.

 

[modul8tr]

The most recent “revelations” about Facebook include them tracking all your phone calls & call length, text, sms, and who they’re with.

This is a perfect example of their lack of transparency in asking you to give them access to contacts. In my mind and the minds of most, it sounds as if they only get access to who is in your contacts app so they can auto connect you with “friends”. What I DON’T think is going to happen is that I’m granting them access to keep a daily record of phone calls, their length and who they’re with, texts and sms messages that span YEARS back. Yet that’s exactly what shady Facebook has been doing. Luckily it only affected Android users (Irony Train! All aboard!!) and not iOS. Guess what happens to all that info when/if their platform gets hacked?

Regarding the China meme. It is not Apple’s responsibility to fix China. Tim Cook has been very open about their thoughts on China and why they do business there. Their work in being THE corporate leader when it comes to pushing for worker safety, health, and well being with their manufacturing partners (Foxcon etc.) speaks for itself. Yet the 5 year olds building iPhones meme still exists. If you’re aware of Tim Cooks thinking on how best to participate in difficult territories (“having a seat at the table”) then you see how you can use your influence to push standard practices in a better direction.

Apple has been doing the same with their mining partners and is currently making efforts to buy minerals directly. If any mining partner is caught exploiting children, in addition to punishing that supplier, they also “require the supplier to fund the worker's safe return home, fully finance their education at a school chosen by them and their family, continue to pay their wages and offer them a job when they reach the legal age.”

Apple not putting their money where their mouth is on privacy? How soon we forget that Apple went to bat for their users and basically gave the middle finger to the FBI when the FBI decided to use a national tragedy (not by accident) to try to force Apple into creating a “good guy” back door into all iPhones.

In the (often) poor effort to be the top bitchy snarkster/commentator on all of the political stories, much of the actual facts/reasoning surrounding this is missed.

 

[deanthedev]

The most recent “revelations” about Facebook include them tracking all your phone calls & call length, text, sms, and who they’re with.

That was on the Android version of Facebook. iOS doesn’t even have permissions to grant an App access to your phone or messages, so Facebook can’t get access to that data on an iPhone.

 

[modul8tr]

That was on the Android version of Facebook. iOS doesn’t even have permissions to grant an App access to your phone or messages, so Facebook can’t get access to that data on an iPhone.

And if you read the whole comment instead of just trying to react quickly, you’d see that was mentioned

 

[stylinexpat]

As I had said. You can call it collection or theft depending on how you see it.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/25/17160944/facebook-call-history-sms-data-collection-android

 

[skinned66]

The decision I made to never use Facebook all those years ago keeps paying off.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Give people information. They can decide if they want to delete Facebook. Facebook is voluntary and people need to understand they are putting their lives on the Internet if they so choose. More government regulation/control isn’t the answer. When people start leaving Facebook change will happen.

Tim Cook should understand this better than anyone. People trust Apple because Apple goes above and beyond with privacy and the government didn’t make them do that.

Knowledge acted upon in the right manner is power. And education is what a lot of people need. Then, they can decide what course of action is best for their life.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

The decision I made to never use Facebook all those years ago keeps paying off.

Same. Anyway, posting here and two other similar user forums are about all the internet socializing I can stomach at this point.