Apple CEO Tim Cook Discusses Privacy, China, Alex Jones and More in VICE Interview

[kironin]

Alex Jones shouldn't have been banned.
Don't like what he's saying - then don't listen to him.

Simple as that.

How very post-modern of you. Not simple as that. Alex Jones had a platform to make a lot of money and he greatly abused it by intentionally misinforming and outright lying to the more credulous in ways that was and is extremely harmful. It's a real problem for society when a person with that kind of power has a morality not based on facts and sound reasoning.

Tolerating persons in all circumstances, by according them respect and courtesy even when their ideas are false or silly, is all good. It doesn't follow that a private company is obligated to give that person access to a powerful platform to become wealthy from espousing nonsense. It's bad enough when it occurs in the public sector.

 

[Glockworkorange]

There's a chasm of difference between honest skepticism and mindless repetition of debunked myths. And there are real consequences to speech, which any reputable entertainer understands. The harm done by those who irresponsibly hide behind "freedom of speech" should be seen as criminal.
[doublepost=1538585152][/doublepost]

Sadly, of late, that seems to be the definition of liberal. I miss the old days when conservatives stood for principals, even if I didn't always agree with them.
[doublepost=1538585638][/doublepost]

Sorry, guess I broke the image.


It's really fascinating how you are arguing that Jones has a right to free speech but Apple does not. Would you make the same argument if a radical leftist app was banned from the app store?

"Sadly, of late, that seems to be the definition of liberal. I miss the old days when conservatives stood for principals, even if I didn't always agree with them."

The problem is the left doesn't just disagree with Republicans. If they did simple disagree, there would be no issue.

Instead, conservatives are called racists and bigots and evil. And what do you do to evil? You destroy it. In fact, it would be immoral NOT to destroy something you think is evil.

This is what is behind the Kavanaugh nonsense. The left has lost its mind and it is destroying people in the process for merely deigning to think different.

But the good news is, the left is running off the tracks, at the least in the US.
[doublepost=1538614438][/doublepost]

How very post-modern of you. Not simple as that. Alex Jones had a platform to make a lot of money and he greatly abused it by intentionally misinforming and outright lying to the more credulous in ways that was and is extremely harmful. It's a real problem for society when a person with that kind of power has a morality not based on facts and sound reasoning.

Tolerating persons in all circumstances, by according them respect and courtesy even when their ideas are false or silly, is all good. It doesn't follow that a private company is obligated to give that person access to a powerful platform to become wealthy from espousing nonsense. It's bad enough when it occurs in the public sector.

He's a lying carnival barker! Shut. Him. Down.

Good Lord. It's really as simple as this---people need to do their own research and make educated decisions.

Please keep the Though Police the Hell out of my life. And who the Hell are you to lecture me about what "facts and sound reasoning" are?

I should be able to do the research without being lectured to and nannied.

Suppressing others because you don't like what they are saying or disagree with them is totalitarian. It's what Stalin did. It's what Mao did. It's what Castro did.

In essence you are saying: "he's saying dangerous things! Shut him up!"

You're like the guy banning dancing in Footloose.

 

[kironin]

I say let the fake news exist & be. Instead EDUCATE the masses on filtering out the fake news, but let the masses make their choice.

Except the masses aren't getting an education in critical thinking and it's very unlikely to change. That would be too liberal or anti-religion. There is a very strong strain of anti-intellectualism in this country.

By banning Alex Jones they gave him WAY more attention than he used to have. They literally made it worse, & guess what he is not going away. This is crazy, these corporations need to let free speech be & instead educate people on making the right decisions. Or do they think we are too stupid ???

Actually, no. Alex Jones getting dumped from social media has really crippled his business model and it's actually greatly reduced his reach and influence on those not actively seeking him out. That's why he's whining so much.

Your ideas about educating people on making the right decisions seems very idealistic and naive. Heck, it's been shown that highly educated people are often just that much better at justifying what they already believe, and ignoring or rationalizing away inconvenient facts that conflict with those beliefs. I don't think we even understand how to teach critical thinking effectively to the masses AND also a sense of healthy skepticism AND also a sense of humility about the fallibility of human thinking and tendency to be too in love with our own belief systems. Also 70 percent of Americans still do not understand the scientific process.

Anything to mute charlatans and prevent them from being able to grab the megaphone and relentlessly push toxic memes is a win. After all the web is toxic mess of misinformation as it is, those that feel a need to suck on that garbage chute will have no trouble finding it the likes of Alex Jones.

 

[Naaaaak]

What Alex Jones has done is very much akin to crying fire in a crowded theater. His speech puts others in danger

Tell me what Alex Jones said that deserves mass de-platforming by Big Tech.

Show me where he said ANYTHING "akin to crying fire in a crowded theater".

I want the exact quote and context. You should be able to find video since there is, or was, tons of clips of him.

 

[Rajani Isa]

"Sadly, of late, that seems to be the definition of liberal. I miss the old days when conservatives stood for principals, even if I didn't always agree with them."

The problem is the left doesn't just disagree with Republicans. If they did simple disagree, there would be no issue.

Instead, conservatives are called racists and bigots and evil. And what do you do to evil? You destroy it. In fact, it would be immoral NOT to destroy something you think is evil.

This is what is behind the Kavanaugh nonsense. The left has lost its mind and it is destroying people in the process for merely deigning to think different.

But the good news is, the left is running off the tracks, at the least in the US.
[doublepost=1538614438][/doublepost]
He's a lying carnival barker! Shut. Him. Down.

Good Lord. It's really as simple as this---people need to do their own research and make educated decisions.

Please keep the Though Police the Hell out of my life. And who the Hell are you to lecture me about what "facts and sound reasoning" are?

I should be able to do the research without being lectured to and nannied.

Suppressing others because you don't like what they are saying or disagree with them is totalitarian. It's what Stalin did. It's what Mao did. It's what Castro did.

In essence you are saying: "he's saying dangerous things! Shut him up!"

You're like the guy banning dancing in Footloose.

The left is running off the tracks?

It wasn't the left in North Carolina trying to change the rules the moment someone from the other party was elected, to remove power from them. Nor making claims about being all for small government, then reaching in when the smaller municipalities were making laws they didn't like.

It wasn't the left in Congress rushing a bill through so fast they couldn't even take the time to TYPE the entire thing, nor photocopy it correctly.

Which side is it that wants to throw people into jail for pot & panics whenever someone mentions studying it for any possible benefits (personally I don't like the rec users, mostly because if I can tell it's because they stink of it. But it does have medical use) but if a company screws thousands if not millions over doesn't want to send anyone to jail?


And as far as Jones and his website go - they put people at risk. Doxxing the Pozner family after they did something he didn't like (after he claimed their dead child never existed), Painting a guy who lived over a 1000 miles away as the gunman at the Parkland shooting, and lets not forget the holes in a certain pizza parlor due to stories he propagated.

Jones has been using his show to do the "i'm not touching you" equivalent of inciting a riot. And considering that there are several lawsuits - which judges have denied the motion to dismiss - it's not an empty claim that he's been hurting people. And that's why places like Apple and Twitter are kicking him out.
[doublepost=1538618986][/doublepost]

Tell me what Alex Jones said that deserves mass de-platforming by Big Tech.

Show me where he said ANYTHING "akin to crying fire in a crowded theater".

I want the exact quote and context. You should be able to find video since there is, or was, tons of clips of him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/us/politics/alex-jones-infowars-sandy-hook-lawsuit.html

In that article it states :

After Mr. Pozner succeeded in getting an Infowars video casting doubt on the shooting removed from YouTube, Mr. Jones showed his audience Mr. Pozner’s personal information and maps to addresses associated with his family, court documents say. Mr. Jones also falsely accused Ms. De La Rosa of participating in a faked interview with Anderson Cooper of CNN after the shooting, according to court documents.

Subsequent death threats and harassment have forced the Pozner family to move seven times. They currently live in hiding.

 

[applefan69]

Except the masses aren't getting an education in critical thinking and it's very unlikely to change. That would be too liberal or anti-religion. There is a very strong strain of anti-intellectualism in this country.



Actually, no. Alex Jones getting dumped from social media has really crippled his business model and it's actually greatly reduced his reach and influence on those not actively seeking him out. That's why he's whining so much.

Your ideas about educating people on making the right decisions seems very idealistic and naive. Heck, it's been shown that highly educated people are often just that much better at justifying what they already believe, and ignoring or rationalizing away inconvenient facts that conflict with those beliefs. I don't think we even understand how to teach critical thinking effectively to the masses AND also a sense of healthy skepticism AND also a sense of humility about the fallibility of human thinking and tendency to be too in love with our own belief systems. Also 70 percent of Americans still do not understand the scientific process.

Anything to mute charlatans and prevent them from being able to grab the megaphone and relentlessly push toxic memes is a win. After all the web is toxic mess of misinformation as it is, those that feel a need to suck on that garbage chute will have no trouble finding it the likes of Alex Jones.

I still trust my own instinct over someone else's on my behalf. Only I can be responsible for my own good. Thinking anything else is just lazy & simply asking to be taken for granted. Not sure why this is even a debate?

Yes the losers will continue to find the losers. So silencing them did nothing but give them some attention in the short term. On that note you try to eat your cake and have it too. Is Alex Jones just fine because people who seek his garbage continue to seek it (true), or is he doomed because his business relied heavily on social media?

 

[Thunderbird]

"We don't think of ourselves as a trillion dollar company" - Tim Cook


ROTFLMAO !! I'm sure the topic of Apple's market cap never comes up at board meetings and shareholder meetings.

 

[Tech198]

in terms of not making it easier to get data in one vs another country, that really depends on the law in that country... not the encryption method used

Because the same 'industry standard' encryption is used everywhere, there is no limits to what governments are capable of. Because they came up with the same standard, we depend upon today. The fact they'd rather make the convenient way out "pay this person to get x data" means they just want money. Plus, no one in the government is skilled enough, except really the NSA.

Even the NSA is doing super computers... so who knows?? All our maths we know could be obsolete by next year.

 

[Bug-Creator]

This ain't dead yet????

Simple question, if you think that AJ should be allowed to spew his hatred filled nonsense on a platform owned by Apple, what are your thoughts of a few players respectfully kneeling before an american-rugby game?

 

[Tinmania]

Tell me what Alex Jones said that deserves mass de-platforming by Big Tech.

Show me where he said ANYTHING "akin to crying fire in a crowded theater".

I want the exact quote and context. You should be able to find video since there is, or was, tons of clips of him.

Sorry, I will not lower myself to indulge any fan of that idiot. If you don't think he incited his "fanbase" you weren't paying attention.



Mike

 

[Rocko99991]

Vice used to be something great.

 

[kironin]

I still trust my own instinct over someone else's on my behalf. Only I can be responsible for my own good. Thinking anything else is just lazy & simply asking to be taken for granted. Not sure why this is even a debate?

Yes the losers will continue to find the losers. So silencing them did nothing but give them some attention in the short term. On that note you try to eat your cake and have it too. Is Alex Jones just fine because people who seek his garbage continue to seek it (true), or is he doomed because his business relied heavily on social media?

Unfortunately, it's not doomed but "traffic to Infowars’ website and video broadcasts has fallen precipitously in the wake of his banishment from Facebook and YouTube."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/04/alex-jones-infowars-social-media-ban

I chose this article rather than the articles it refers to because it also calls into question some of what I said. Always be willing to challenge one's own viewpoint. Also, What Apple did hardly seems to be that relevant.

“I think that what is reflected in the traffic going down is related to the power of social media to broadcast content to new audiences,” said Joan Donovan, a lead researcher at Data & Society’s Media Manipulation Initiative. “What we are seeing now is more of a reflection of the fanbase as it stands rather than a reflection of how the recommendation algorithm is serving the content to new audiences.” ....
Donovan said that Infowars was particularly suited to Facebook’s and YouTube’s algorithms, because they are looking for “freshness and relevance”. Jones broadcasts for hours each day, and Infowars then slices and dices his rants into short videos designed for social media platforms. “It really tips the recommendation system towards Infowars because they have content about almost everything you can imagine, as well as having content that is new online,” she said. “Very few media makers can produce at that kind of rate online.”

 

[Naraxus]

No, you can’t advocate violence and say that’s fair game. That’s just reckless beyond any reasonable thought.

Who said anything about advocating violence?

 

[shareef777]

Who said anything about advocating violence?

Alex Jones, that's who. Constantly, which is why he was banned. But everyone can go ahead an put their conspiracy hats on tighter and tooting their trumpets.
[doublepost=1538686668][/doublepost]

Tim said nothing informative about the Jones censorship. He basically said it is obvious to anyone why Jones was banned. But decent people offer specific reasons for their actions. In this case it would be enumerating specific things Jones said that are worthy of censoring him. Neither Apple or anyone else has done this. The reason is because it would expose their bias and hypocrisy.



There is no such thing as hate speech. You can still purchase Hitler’s works in free countries like the USA. You can not in countries without our historic commitment to freedom. The US for all our faults has a principle that you are free to say anything other than incitements to violence. We either believe in that or we don’t. In the modern US the ‘liberals’ are the ones who want to censor speech.

Last I checked, no one is obligated to sell Hitler's (or Alex Jones') crap. Move on!

 

[Naraxus]

Alex Jones, that's who. Constantly, which is why he was banned. But everyone can go ahead an put their conspiracy hats on tighter and tooting their trumpets.
[doublepost=1538686668][/doublepost]

Last I checked, no one is obligated to sell Hitler's (or Alex Jones') crap. Move on!

Alex Jones is missing a few screws, that I think we can both agree on. And you're right, I can't make threats of violence against someone - that's illegal.

What I'm saying is that I will defend ANYONES right to say something stupid, sexist, racist or whatever and the Supreme Court has affirmed as such https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...endment/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c521355cd736

I will defend the Ku Klux Klan's right to PEACBLY protest, just as I will defend BLM's right to the same.

 

[neliason]

Alex Jones, that's who. Constantly, which is why he was banned. But everyone can go ahead an put their conspiracy hats on tighter and tooting their trumpets.
[doublepost=1538686668][/doublepost]

The strange thing is no one can point to an actual occurrence of this. People just say he does without proof. Saying something repeatedly doesn’t make it true. A lot of people saying the same thing doesn’t make it true. If Jones has done this then quote him and I’ll be persuaded.

 

[shareef777]

The strange thing is no one can point to an actual occurrence of this. People just say he does without proof. Saying something repeatedly doesn’t make it true. A lot of people saying the same thing doesn’t make it true. If Jones has done this then quote him and I’ll be persuaded.

The strange thing is that no one needs to do that for you. Apple (and others) have easily found those occurrences. Google it, not too hard.

 

[neliason]

The strange thing is that no one needs to do that for you. Apple (and others) have easily found those occurrences. Google it, not too hard.

So you make accusations and make other people find the evidence for your accusation? As a system that doesn’t resemble the Western idea of fairness.

 

[shareef777]

So you make accusations and make other people find the evidence for your accusation? As a system that doesn’t resemble the Western idea of fairness.

Facts are out there, if you’re too lazy to find it so be it.

 

[neliason]

Facts are out there, if you’re too lazy to find it so be it.

So you think it is lazy not to find evidence for someone else’s claim? That is a very novel idea of laziness. Not to mention how can anyone find evidence of a vague claim?

 

[shareef777]

So you think it is lazy not to find evidence for someone else’s claim? That is a very novel idea of laziness. Not to mention how can anyone find evidence of a vague claim?

As opposed to the opposite claim that there’s a mass conspiracy against Alex Jones by all these multi-billion dollar companies. I’d like to believe that he was removed for good cause, and if not, I’ll just say

 

[Rajani Isa]

Alex Jones is missing a few screws, that I think we can both agree on. And you're right, I can't make threats of violence against someone - that's illegal.

What I'm saying is that I will defend ANYONES right to say something stupid, sexist, racist or whatever and the Supreme Court has affirmed as such https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...endment/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c521355cd736

I will defend the Ku Klux Klan's right to PEACBLY protest, just as I will defend BLM's right to the same.

At the same time the Supreme Court has upheld laws against things such as instigating riots or panics. Which is what he has done. That is why he is being sued by several parties right now.

The strange thing is no one can point to an actual occurrence of this. People just say he does without proof. Saying something repeatedly doesn’t make it true. A lot of people saying the same thing doesn’t make it true. If Jones has done this then quote him and I’ll be persuaded.

I pointed to an article about one of the lawsuits. It explains how - after one of the people targeted by a “Sandy Hook is a con job” videos had it flagged and removed YouTube - Jones doxxed a gentleman. Result? They’ve moved several times and would probably benefit from the witness protection program. They are currently doing everything they can to keep their location secret - home, school, and work.

 

[neliason]

I pointed to an article about one of the lawsuits. It explains how - after one of the people targeted by a “Sandy Hook is a con job” videos had it flagged and removed YouTube - Jones doxxed a gentleman. Result? They’ve moved several times and would probably benefit from the witness protection program. They are currently doing everything they can to keep their location secret - home, school, and work.

But that isn’t what the tech companies said was their reason for getting rid of Jones. While Jones probably shouldn’t have published the guys info he isn’t the one making the threats.

 

[Rajani Isa]

But that isn’t what the tech companies said was their reason for getting rid of Jones. While Jones probably shouldn’t have published the guys info he isn’t the one making the threats.

Even if someone does nothing but speak you can still get in trouble for inciting a riot. Same concept here. He didn't share that info for flowers and candies.

 

[nt5672]

Without curation you get a cesspool. Did you know that this very forum is curated by the moderation team? You are censored from saying anything hateful towards me. You would get put in time-out and banned for a another attempt just like Alex Jones did from nearly every platform under the sun and your offending posts will be deleted like his shows, apps, tweets and pages were removed. You see, this is how a civil society operates. If you don’t like being a part of it, then I suggest you exit the country. We have no tolerance for hateful bigots who only want to tear down their fellow man instead of lifting them up in peace and love. This is where we the people have drawn our line in the sand and if you cross it then we reserve the right to ignore you with every tool at our disposal. You can claim conspiracy theories all day long but once you start attacking other people verbally and inciting others to violence you’re just done.

This hate that you describe is exactly what the protesters on the left do without any downside whatsoever. They advocate violence, show up at political rivals homes, threaten and commit violence daily, and yet they get away with it.

This difference in approach based on ideology is why it is censorship and not civility. There might be a case as you describe if the case applied equally to everyone, but it does not. If you want a civil society you should be a conservative. Oddly enough, conservatives even pick up the trash after their protests, liberals not so much.