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Yeah, Wall Street "compensation" is disgusting as well. Wall Street makes vast profits on the backs of ordinary, incredibly hard-working people, who...

There is a parallel here. But then again Tim has nothing to do with his compensation package. Blame the board, directors etc. Maybe Tim should work for $1 a year or give away the money to charity.
Tim having nothing to do with his compensation package is the best joke of the year. Thank you for improving my 2017 so dramatically.

On a serious note, was it the board of directors who refused to pay Steve Jobs more than $1 per year or was it Steve Jobs who decided that he would not take more than $1 per year? I'm sure the board would have loved to pay him more than they are paying Tim Cook today.

Blame Steve for not involving Apple in the corporate charity game all you want, but the man had integrity not to rape the company that he headed. He benefited from Apple as a shareholder, not as a CEO. He got the same benefit as an AAPL shareholder as I did. The only difference between him and me was the number of shares that we owned.

Tim Cook's achievement was to get on Steve's good side. And for that, Tim will rake in more than a billion over his tenure as a CEO.

In Russia, they don't think that there is anyone who can replace Putin. And here, we don't think that there's anyone who can replace Cook. Pathetic.
 
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Tim having nothing to do with his compensation package is the best joke of the year. Thank you for improving my 2017 so dramatically.

On a serious note, was it the board of directors who refused to pay Steve Jobs more than $1 per year or was it Steve Jobs who decided that he would not take more than $1 per year? I'm sure the board would have loved to pay him more than they are paying Tim Cook today.

Blame Steve for not involving Apple in the corporate charity game all you want, but the man had integrity not to rape the company that he headed. He benefited from Apple as a shareholder, not as a CEO. He got the same benefit as an AAPL shareholder as I did. The only difference between him and me was the number of shares that we owned.

Tim Cook's achievement was to get on Steve's good side. And for that, Tim will rake in more than a billion over his tenure as a CEO.

In Russia, they don't think that there is anyone who can replace Putin. And here, we don't think that there's anyone who can replace Cook. Pathetic.
Ok your opinion. But Cook got what the board thinks he deserves. And he’s not going anywhere soon.
 
Ever look at the buyers guide on MR?

It’s apple, not iPhone

Not To interject between you and another forum members discussion, but that doesn't answer deanthedevs question at all. What you said is more of a generalization.

More To the point of this post, you do realize that the buyers guide on MacRumors is not the 'tell all' that everybody references for product details. It's an overview of Products, it's not indicative of the status of an Apple product entirely.
 
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Tim having nothing to do with his compensation package is the best joke of the year. Thank you for improving my 2017 so dramatically.

On a serious note, was it the board of directors who refused to pay Steve Jobs more than $1 per year or was it Steve Jobs who decided that he would not take more than $1 per year? I'm sure the board would have loved to pay him more than they are paying Tim Cook today.

Blame Steve for not involving Apple in the corporate charity game all you want, but the man had integrity not to rape the company that he headed. He benefited from Apple as a shareholder, not as a CEO. He got the same benefit as an AAPL shareholder as I did. The only difference between him and me was the number of shares that we owned.

Tim Cook's achievement was to get on Steve's good side. And for that, Tim will rake in more than a billion over his tenure as a CEO.

In Russia, they don't think that there is anyone who can replace Putin. And here, we don't think that there's anyone who can replace Cook. Pathetic.

Apple did, in relative terms (e.g. based on the value of the company at different times or its profits over different time periods - I can expound on that if someone is interested), pay Mr. Jobs more than Mr. Cook is on course to be paid. And, like Mr. Cook, the great majority of the compensation he received as CEO of Apple came in the form of RSUs.

When Mr. Jobs returned to Apple, he only owned 1 share of AAPL. The additional shares which he owned when he died were acquired as compensation for being Apple's CEO and for being one of its directors. In 2006 he had 10 million Apple shares vest at a market value of around $650 million. That plus an airplane (and tax assistance relating to said airplane) represents the bulk of the compensation he received as CEO of Apple - a little under $750 million worth. He also exercised some stock options in 2007 at a bargain value of around $15 million. That represents his compensation as a director of the company. The net shares he received as Apple CEO and director (i.e. what was left after tax withholding) would be worth around $6.6 billion today. He had more than 5.5 million shares as of the last reporting before his death. That was before the 7-for-1 split.

The point being, he benefited from Apple as a shareholder because he was paid in RSUs just as Mr. Cook mostly is. Further, just as Mr. Jobs probably could have gotten even more compensation for being Apple's CEO had he wanted it, so could Mr. Cook. Mr. Cook has already voluntarily refused around $60 million in dividend equivalents compensation which he was entitled to. And he chose to rework his initial CEO RSU award such that 40% of it was contingent on stock performance, whereas originally none of it had been, without increasing the maximum number of shares that he could receive from that award.
 
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I think so because you can praise or complain about Cook no matter what the share price is doing..

So your opinion isn't based solely on share price. Doesn't make it more or less valid than someone's whose is, partially. Share price is a good indicator of the health of a company. And for a consumer electronics company, that means consumers are buying the products and generating revenue. So as a shareholder and long-time Apple user, I care about the products the company creates (because I use them) and how they affect the success of the company. And part of all of that is the performance of the company's management. And I've yet to hear of a better alternative to Tim. And that alternative would still be paid similarly. Its expected for the CEO of the most valuable company on the planet.
 
His personal air travel expense in 2017 is only $93,109?

Don't have anything to back this up, but if I had to guess, that is probably just long-haul international flights. First class in an A380 can easily run 10k for a single flight. Those trips are probably more difficult to fly privately due to limited aircraft that have the range. Most of his domestic travel is probably already private.
 
Why does Apple need to be revered in the pro world to be considered a success?

Apple isn’t a tech company to begin with. I see Apple as a design company responsible for making technology more personal to the end user. I love my Airpods, my Apple Watch, my Apple Pencil, my iPad Pro.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/8/15/apple-has-the-best-business-model-for-generating-cash

Yes Apple is not a tech company. Apple does not have an entire divison specifically related to engineering custom silicon for its newest phones and ipads or anything. What the **** do you mean by that? I mean what do you even define as a tech company?
 
Unless there is some fanboi, I really suspect he travels with an entourage to discourage that. Plus whenever I travel usually I am not focused on people around me. I am usually staring at my phone like 90% of everybody else or staring out the window, or eating, or drinking at the airport pub.

And just because it is mandatory now does not mean he flew commercial prior, just means now he can't fly commercial at all now.
We are talking about the Apple community here. We are talking about the same terminal where everybody is likely to have an Apple iPhone and Apple Watch. I observe things and you don't buy one without knowing who is the leadership within the company. He is not gonna get it everywhere, but he is gonna get it a whole lot for selfie request and annoying person who wants to ask questions he or she is not gonna get an answer too.
 
Not To interject between you and another forum members discussion, but that doesn't answer deanthedevs question at all. What you said is more of a generalization.

More To the point of this post, you do realize that the buyers guide on MacRumors is not the 'tell all' that everybody references for product details. It's an overview of Products, it's not indicative of the status of an Apple product entirely.

And here you are..... again.... lecturing . I'm glad that is how YOU view the buyers guide.

It's cute , but getting boring , so you plan to see 2017 out trying to bicker with me? You know what, not interested . It's like you are not trolling me out of spite on these forums .
 
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Given everything Apple has managed to accomplish this year, I do feel that Tim Cook deserves every cent he earned (and yes, I know this is going to be a very controversial statement).
Sure he deserves it. Not like he's done anything dishonest with the company, and AAPL is simply worth a lot now. Unrelated is my experience with my iPhone, which has been very poor lately.
 
Jobs is dead. Sorry.

This is now Tim Cooks Apple, which Steve gave to Tim. People who don't like this version of apple, apple 2.0 have options. Tim did a great job of increasing the revenue for apple and taking steps Jobs wouldn't have done. Bigger screens, pencils/stylus.

As far as a human rights committee, none was needed under Jobs because Jobs wasn't into human rights, but because Tim is now one is all of a sudden needed.

Really can't get aboard with the Jobs chest thumping at this stage almost 7 years after his passing.
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That is why he got such a massive bonus.

Those who think TC should be given the boot for whatever reasons they have, should be obvious he is not going anywhere.


My rebuttal was directed to someone stating Jobs couldn’t do Tim’s job in his leading years yet Tim could do Jobs’. I showed heavy disagreement with quite good evidence to that.

Jobs lack of not launching iPhone with a stylus still stands and it works. Very well. I don’t think Tim had anything to do with adding a stylus to the iPad, that was from TChai (former lead of the Apple neeton which had a stylus), and the direction of the iPad completely hanged for artists when Apple realized so many third party stylii debuted. Bigger screens agreed on that part.

My rebuttal had nothing to do with Tim’s performance as a CEO on his own merits in this timeline.
 
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With respect to me knowing Apple history... if you would rather believe most here didn't know that Steve Jobs didn't start Apple as a wealthy person in the 1970s, feel free - that's your prerogative.

And, as I said, most here know that when he did return to Apple, Jobs was indeed wealthy, and thus only took $1/yr for a salary coming back in 1997. That's what you're arguing about. If you don't want to believe that, that's cool, and your prerogative as well.

No disrespect . Most here these days don't know Apple was a computer company..... even original iPhone is ancient history ;)
 
Come on, we all know that this is a rigged system. The boards are stuffed with CEO's that give each other ridiculous compensation packages.

I don't think Mr. Cook's compensation package is ridiculous. As a shareholder, I was pleased with how it was structured and don't think it's excessive.

That said, we - the owners of companies like Apple - control whom their directors are. If we don't like what boards do, we can vote directors off. Apple's board (to include Mr. Cook) currently enjoys overwhelming support among shareholders. Further, last year we voted 95% in approval of the compensation that Apple's executives get. We are whom that compensation, effectively, comes from and we're (collectively) okay with it. That, and those receiving the compensation being okay with it, is what matters and is what should matter when it comes to whether that compensation is paid.
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The hate for Cook is due to him not being a product person. Jobs was apple, and jobs was a product person. People want a visionary with amazing new products, not just record profits. As you said, jobs is gone, different apple now. Tim should get paid the most of the execs, how Angela gets more.... pft. He is holding it together

Ms. Ahrendts doesn't get paid more than Mr. Cook. It just appears that way some years because of the way executive compensation is reported.

When an RSU award is granted, its value (at that time) is reported as compensation for that year even if it's for a multi-year period and none of the shares vest that year. It may pay out, so to speak, over a number of years; but those yearly payouts aren't reported in subsequent years when they happen.

Mr. Cook received a large RSU award when he became CEO. That award (which was modified a little later) vests over 10 years. Each year Mr. Cook receives shares, as compensation for being CEO, from it. But he hasn't received any RSU awards since then. So his annually reported compensation represents only his base salary, his non-equity incentive compensation (i.e. his cash bonus), and some other forms of compensation (e.g. contributions to his 401(k) and security expenses which Apple pays). The bulk of what he receives in compensation most years isn't included in his annually reported compensation. It would have been reported (i.e. the value of it at that time) as part of his compensation for 2011.

The SVPs and the COO, on the other hand, get new RSU awards each year. Those yearly awards are considerably smaller than the RSU award which Mr. Cook got in 2011 and which is still the source of most of his annual compensation. But those RSU awards get reported as compensation for those other executives each year when they are granted. So, in most years, it looks like they're compensation is greater than Mr. Cook's. In reality, it is not.

On a side note, all of the SVPs and the COO get meaningfully the same compensation now. There may be some variation in the other category - e.g., how much Apple contributes to their respective 401(k)s. But their salaries, cash bonuses, and annual RSU awards are the same.
 
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I totally expected him to fly private just like Jobs.

Remember how Jobs got stopped at Japan's security for bringing a sword onto his own plane?

Steve's salary was $1/yr. The private jet was a bargain in Steve's case. Steve also did actual work that moved the company forward. No comparison.
 
That said, we - the owners of companies like Apple - control whom their directors are. If we don't like what boards do, we can vote directors off. Apple's board (to include Mr. Cook) currently enjoys overwhelming support among shareholders.

You are technically correct of course. But in practice shareholders are given a slate of board candidates that the current board recommends voting for, most people don't have the time and energy to do much more than vote for what the board recommends and it seems it would take a huge effort to install alternate board members.
 
Here's a nice chart that shows just how nauseatingly greedy the rich have become. Believe it or not things were pretty equal during the Reagan administration.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/07/opinion/leonhardt-income-inequality.html

Screenshot 2017-12-29 17.56.22.png
 
In light of the changed tax laws many tech companies are increasing the amount of salary above $1m and reducing stock options as a ratio slightly. Since Tim in particular will likely get a performance bonus in FY2018 as a result of these estimates likely to pan out:

Apple is providing the following guidance for its fiscal 2018 first quarter:
  • revenue between $84 billion and $87 billion
  • gross margin between 38 percent and 38.5 percent
  • operating expenses between $7.65 billion and $7.75 billion
  • other income/(expense) of $600 million
  • tax rate of 25.5 percent
Furthermore the estimate of tax rate was before the recent tax bill passed. Any tax savings flow directly to net earnings (~+5%) and thus P/E ratio reduction. Any repatriated monies can reduce new bond offerings or allow existing ones to roll off or be liquidated under the prepayment clauses. Although if I offered bonds at those rates I would hold them to maturity since Apple's IRR (similar to return on average equity) is over 25%.

There is currently appetite for 50 year and 100 year bonds. Hmmm. Bank of Apple division. :D

Apple put me in charge of the division.
 
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Completely irrelevant.

Steve's $1 salary was at a time when typical Fortune 500 CEOs were making six or seven figures.

The $1 salary was mostly symbolic, to persuade the general public that his compensation was based solely on performance (Steve didn't need the Apple money, he was already rich from his Pixar holdings). It also saved Steve a bunch of payroll taxes.

His widow Laureen Powell Jobs is one of the richest women in the world and it's not because of any Apple holdings. Her fortune is mostly from Disney shares; until recently she was Disney's largest single shareholder.

Walt Disney’s shares?? What they did to the body?? I thought i was on ice or something. Why she want a share of that man? That’s crazy
 
I don't think Mr. Cook's compensation package is ridiculous. As a shareholder, I was pleased with how it was structured and don't think it's excessive.

That said, we - the owners of companies like Apple - control whom their directors are. If we don't like what boards do, we can vote directors off. Apple's board (to include Mr. Cook) currently enjoys overwhelming support among shareholders. Further, last year we voted 95% in approval of the compensation that Apple's executives get. We are whom that compensation, effectively, comes from and we're (collectively) okay with it. That, and those receiving the compensation being okay with it, is what matters and is what should matter when it comes to whether that compensation is paid.


Isn't it amazing how the most naive capitalist and communist beliefs are the same ? ... ;)

Unless you have a major share of any company, any intern at any investment bank has more sway than you do .
 
You are technically correct of course. But in practice shareholders are given a slate of board candidates that the current board recommends voting for, most people don't have the time and energy to do much more than vote for what the board recommends and it seems it would take a huge effort to install alternate board members.

A couple of things:

(1) That's kind of the point of equity ownership of companies (which one isn't otherwise involved with). We give our money to others because - for one or more of a wide range of possible reasons - we believe they will make better use of it than we would. So, to a great degree, we own stock in companies because we trust those running them to do well. Part of the point is that we don't have to do the work of making decisions regarding how best to use the resources the corporation owns. (There are lots of other reasons, but I'm not going to get lost in them now.)

If we no longer have trust in those running a given company which we own part of, often we just sell our ownership stake. In most cases, our own interests are better served by that course than by trying to change what they are doing (or whom they are). Those who still have trust in them can continue to own the company, and they'll be rewarded or punished for their well-placed or misplaced trust.

That's a big part of why boards typically don't get voted out. In a sense, we vote on whether we believe in them and the job they're doing by buying or selling shares.

(2) However, if enough shareholders have strong enough reasons to continue to own a company even though they don't believe the current board members are right for the job, those shareholders can vote those board members out (or change the rules of the corporation).

Additionally, often large blocks of corporations are owned by entities which pool capital and use it to invest in equities. The people who contribute to those pools of capital are, to a great extent, trusting the people who run those entities to manage that capital and make good decisions with regard to the equity investments they make. Those entities control larger blocks of ownership interest in various corporations and thus sometimes wield, on behalf of the people who contribute to those pools of capital, more control over what those corporations do.

At any rate, it is ultimately shareholders that have control over what corporations do. They can, if they choose, exercise that control.
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Isn't it amazing how the most naive capitalist and communist beliefs are the same ? ... ;)

What that I said there was naive?

Unless you have a major share of any company, any intern at any investment bank has more sway than you do .

Sure, that can be the case. Did I suggest otherwise?

If someone only owns one 1-millionth of a company, they don't by themselves have much control over what that company does. That is as it should be. There's a reason I included the parenthetical - collectively - in my comments. I shouldn't need to include that, it should be obvious from such comments what they mean. But I included it in case someone might otherwise think (or try to pretend) that I meant something other than what I was saying. Collectively, the shareholders have ultimate control over what happens. They can, if it is their collective will, vote for changes in corporate rules or vote out directors.

As I indicated, Apple's directors enjoy overwhelming support from shareholders - not just from individual shareholders here or there that don't represent much ownership of the company and who don't individually have much say in what happens with the company, but from shareholders as a whole.

Most people understand that if they only own one 1-millionth of something, they don't by themselves - in most contexts - get to decide what happens with that something. They are part of a group of people who collectively get to decide. If someone buys one 1-millionth of something thinking they should get to control what happens with that something, that (likely) represents great unreasonableness on their part.
 
Apple did, in relative terms (e.g. based on the value of the company at different times or its profits over different time periods - I can expound on that if someone is interested), pay Mr. Jobs more than Mr. Cook is on course to be paid. And, like Mr. Cook, the great majority of the compensation he received as CEO of Apple came in the form of RSUs.

When Mr. Jobs returned to Apple, he only owned 1 share of AAPL. The additional shares which he owned when he died were acquired as compensation for being Apple's CEO and for being one of its directors. In 2006 he had 10 million Apple shares vest at a market value of around $650 million. That plus an airplane (and tax assistance relating to said airplane) represents the bulk of the compensation he received as CEO of Apple - a little under $750 million worth. He also exercised some stock options in 2007 at a bargain value of around $15 million. That represents his compensation as a director of the company. The net shares he received as Apple CEO and director (i.e. what was left after tax withholding) would be worth around $6.6 billion today. He had more than 5.5 million shares as of the last reporting before his death. That was before the 7-for-1 split.

The point being, he benefited from Apple as a shareholder because he was paid in RSUs just as Mr. Cook mostly is. Further, just as Mr. Jobs probably could have gotten even more compensation for being Apple's CEO had he wanted it, so could Mr. Cook. Mr. Cook has already voluntarily refused around $60 million in dividend equivalents compensation which he was entitled to. And he chose to rework his initial CEO RSU award such that 40% of it was contingent on stock performance, whereas originally none of it had been, without increasing the maximum number of shares that he could receive from that award.

One can benefit from stock options ONLY if the price of the stock (once it matures) goes above the stock option price at the time when it was awarded. I had a bunch of Sprint stock options that never realized any value because my stock options were at the price that Sprint stock never reached once my stock options matured.

Steve Jobs would have made less than $20 altogether if Apple hadn't performed and stock hadn't risen. So, stock options reward the CEO only if the CEO performs and the stock rises. Conversely, Tim Cook will make millions and millions regardless of what happens to the stock.
 
At any rate, it is ultimately shareholders that have control over what corporations do. They can, if they choose, exercise that control.

Yes, in principle. I'm just curious as to how many times that's happened.

And one can support the current board based on the overall direction of the company while also thinking that the CEO is getting paid too much.
 
One can benefit from stock options ONLY if the price of the stock (once it matures) goes above the stock option price at the time when it was awarded. I had a bunch of Sprint stock options that never realized any value because my stock options were at the price that Sprint stock never reached once my stock options matured.

Steve Jobs would have made less than $20 altogether if Apple hadn't performed and stock hadn't risen. So, stock options reward the CEO only if the CEO performs and the stock rises. Conversely, Tim Cook will make millions and millions regardless of what happens to the stock.

As I described in the previous post, the (equity) compensation which Mr. Jobs received as the CEO of Apple came from RSUs, not from stock options. The market value of those shares was around $75 million on the day the RSU award was granted. Apple's stock price didn't have to appreciate any for him to benefit from that RSU award, he just had to remain employed by Apple for 3 years.

By the time those shares vested their value had increased a great deal. The same, to a lesser degree, has been the case with the shares that Mr. Cook has received. I'd also note that while all of Mr. Jobs' shares would have vested even if AAPL had done poorly relative to other stocks, a significant portion of Mr. Cook's shares are conditioned on AAPL's performance (i.e. on its Relative TSR).

Additionally, Mr. Jobs received more than $80 million in compensation (as CEO of Apple) in the form of an aircraft and tax assistance.

RSUs are quite different from stock options. There is no bargain element with RSU awards as there is with stock options. Their entire value represents compensation to the employee.
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Yes, in principle. I'm just curious as to how many times that's happened.

It doesn't happen often in large part for the reason I described.

And one can support the current board based on the overall direction of the company while also thinking that the CEO is getting paid too much.

No doubt.

As I indicated, last year Apple shareholders voted 95% in approval of the compensation that its executives receive.
 
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