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Right. Love the sinner not the sin. Nothing more condescending than that! Yes. Bigotry is an ugly word. One that suits religious people very well. Especially ones like you who try to couch your bigotry in pseudo intellectualism.

Hmm. The hypocrisy in your post is interesting. And by the way, condescension assumes a position of superiority. I have made no such allusion.

OK, fine. You and others want to call me a bigot, go ahead.

Your anger and hatred keep you from accepting another person's reasoning and difference of opinion or morality to the point of insults, which is the shadow of violence.

I guess that the tables have turned, and it's not okay for believers (and dissenters) to "come out" and try to talk about it.

Got it.
 
"Judge not, that you be not judged." Matthew 7:1

We don't get to decide what happens to someone soul. We don't get to judge whether they go to heaven or hell or what the cost of their sins will be.

We can point out someones sins. That is not judging, that is observation.

People are always trying to say don't judge to escape hearing about what they are doing.
 
You are clearly trying to say that one is born gay. This in not a fact. Calling it a fact doesn't make it a fact.

You are clearly trying to say that one chooses to be gay. This is not a fact. Calling it a fact doesn't make it a fact.

Others have posted a small subset of the evidence showing sexuality is an expression of genetics. All you've done is claim that it's a choice without providing any evidence at all.
 
Please, folks, you need to read the whole thing to get the appropriate context, if that is truly what your purpose is.

Otherwise, there is no point in using it just to further your position against it.
There is most likely no point anyway. This is the issue with the Bible: there is no way to take it without interpretation and without deciding which parts you deem more important than others, and you cannot simply ignore the issue since some parts clearly contradict others.

There some churches which consider some parts either historical accounts or obsoleted by other parts, and end up with a completely different interpretation of the Bible than other Churches which happen to read it another way.

Whose interpretation is right?
 
Redefining marriage is not a requirement for "equality"

Redefining civil marriage is required. I don't care what the definition of religious marriage (or holy matrimony) is.

People have a hard time understanding that civil marriage, administered by the state, is not the same as marriage as defined by various religions.
 
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You choose who you are attracted to, but you don't choose a biologically-driven sexual orientation.

It's pretty much chosen for you. If you have an orientation that skews toward finding both males and females sexually and romantically desirable, well, that's just who you are.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Or do you?? What if that person was attractive to you, but you found out later that the person was a different gender than you thought they were???

And what about divorced couples? They were attracted to each other when they met and got married... but I truly doubt they still are attracted. Did they choose to STOP being attracted to one another? Absolutely, but it didn't happen overnight (or maybe it did, depending on what was going on that night)

Sorry... but we aren't guided by some unknown force that just makes decisions for you. Your actions are you own choice, no one elses. NO ONE can force you to do something, it ultimately becomes your choice.
I'm sorry you don't understand that...
 
Wow, I can't believe some of the comments. Bigotry is rife on MacRumours.

I wonder if all the uneducated homophobic fools would say such awful things to Tim's face. I don't think so some how.

Please go away, keep your outdated views to yourselves and let the rest of us live in peace.

And please don't buy anymore Apple products as you wouldn't want to come across as hypercritical as well as abhorrent.
 
It's so sad reading all this.

Being a student surrounded by such a diverse set of open-minded, tolerant people has clearly skewed my perception of society.

I just cannot believe how much hate and bigotry there is here.
 
[MOD NOTE]
Lets stop with the personal attacks and debate the topic.

These debates only ever and always get locked down because they're about views that people wear on their sleeve... people cannot extricate themselves and have a civil debate about it because invariably, the reason some of them are debating is to defend their own prejudices; that they have them, I couldn't care less. By prejudices I mean that it is rarely the case that someone arrives at a reasoned position against a minority by first examining all the facts and arriving at some kind of conclusion that the minority deserves unequal treatment.

That is the antithesis of rationality.... and that is why these debates always degenerate into something irrational, because the genesis of hatred toward minorities comes from an irrational place, regardless of what religious, philosophical or other non-empirical "sources" were retconned into their defense of said biases.

Have the debate by all means, but it'll get locked down soon like every other debate on this subject on any message board ever.
 
[MOD NOTE]
Lets stop with the personal attacks and debate the topic.

Personal attacks? You mean the people who were calling others out for being bigots? I'm sorry, but if they're going to spew offensive nonsense comparing homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia, they deserve to be called out for their bigotry. Because it is bigotry, plain and simple. It's not a personal attack to state a fact.
 
I wonder if all the uneducated homophobic fools would say such awful things to Tim's face. I don't think so some how.

I'd ask him what paths he took to make it to become the CEO of one of the largest companies in the world?
When he stopped me, and told me he's gay I'd say to him "What's that got to do with being a CEO for Apple?"
 
These debates only ever and always get locked down because they're about views that people wear on their sleeve... people cannot extricate themselves and have a civil debate about it because invariably, the reason some of them are debating is to defend prejudices. By prejudices I mean that it is rarely the case that someone arrives at a reasoned position against a minority by first examining all the facts and arriving at some kind of conclusion that the minority deserves unequal treatment.

That is the antithesis of rationality.... and that is why these debates always degenerate into something irrational, because the genesis of hatred toward minorities comes from an irrational place, regardless of what religious, philosophical or other non-empirical biases were retconned into their defense of said biases.

Have the debate by all means, but it'll get locked down soon like every other debate on this subject on any message board ever. It's not really a debate so much as it is a parade of "homosexuality is wrong because god".

Nicely said.
 
Being a student surrounded by such a diverse set of open-minded, tolerant people has clearly skewed my perception of society.


society as a whole is safe and sane. You have nothing to worry about. Don't let a few individuals reflect your view of an entire society.
 
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