I’m into the 2013 and later mindset that Apple seems to have got that their customer base wanted. Function means nothing if I’m unhappy with the form.
I'm glad things are working out well a least for one of us.
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I’m into the 2013 and later mindset that Apple seems to have got that their customer base wanted. Function means nothing if I’m unhappy with the form.
Based on some the recent revenue, corporate valuation etc, it appears someone is happy with apples products. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sure with hundreds of millions of customers, there is a lot to complain about. But all in all people seem to be happy based on revenue and valuation.I'm glad things are working out well a least for one of us.That mindset at Apple in the 90s-00s might not have helped lead to their meteoric rise back then, though, when things just worked so much better than the competition. Back then, the form & strong industrial design was that secondary super-nice-to-have "extra" or surprise & delight icing on the cake. Lines are so much more blurred now; all look pretty much alike in hardware, UI, and software, and I just don't feel fulfilled overindulging on so much icing/sugar. I miss the form follows function, for sure.
Based on some the recent revenue, corporate valuation etc, it appears someone is happy with apples products. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sure with hundreds of millions of customers, there is a lot to complain about. But all in all people seem to be happy based on revenue and valuation.
It also seems that in today's day and age, we are into copycat big time. TVs seem to look alike. Cars seem to look alike. Phones seem to look alike. (hence the notch). Prior to the iphone 1, all flip phones were similar. Cant get away from it. But I think the iphone x is reminscent of the strong industrial design of the iphone 4 and back to that type of design you allude to. Although the 7 and 8 are strong phones and likely become the lucrative second tier offerings, the iphone x, with the notch, is the design for the next few years.
I view this simply. I like Apple products and I buy Apple products.Ha, Apple's financial success is hard to argue with. But is it directly because most consumers really like the things I critique & dislike? Or in spite of it?Could Apple be even more financially successful if they improved the tings I call faults & design flaws? Or is Apple still just the better option than a PC and Android for many (for now...), just like jumping off the 6th floor of a burning building is often a better option than staying put (but where the Apple of pre-2013 was more like a cozy, well-designed building not on fire). If today's financial success is an indicator, then we'll see if we hear more of Miley Cyrus (image/form-first, function way second IMHO, making $$$ today) in elevators 30 years from now than Stevie Wonder (where form clearly followed function, and function led spectacularly). Only time will tell.
The X actually fails my expectation for "good design," as it still has the form-first minimalist iOS/OS UI and the ever-decreasing-hardware-featureset (buttons, ports) still housed in Apple's design-flaw fragile glass casing. If I had to buy new today, the SE is still my clear best choice. Though I'd also need to buy a case to fix the iPhone's fragility design flaw that Jony Ive apparently is still blindly apathetic to fixing.
I agree 100% about cars, phones, music, TV's, looking too alike nowadays. You could even add computers and websites. That is why all the unnecessary reinventions occur, IMHO, in attempts to stand out. Note that all this look-alike morphing & borrowing/stealing has occurred just over the last 10-15 years, before which, Apple products looked like Apple products and PC's/windows looked like PC's/Windows. Now Dell/HP/others now often look like iMacs & MacBooks, most all websites/apps/operating systems employ the same light blue/grey/white flat design/material design appearance that's too often maddeningly unintuitive and made overly-complex by burying functions within unnecessarily redesigned interfaces (while being touted, ironically, as being cleaner and simpler...). Most all cars look like Audis from the front and Toyotas from the side. And don't get me started about today's pop music.Again, I think all this morphing together and unnecessary reinventioning is unavoidable since you can't help but reach some point of uber-refinement to where there's no more low-hanging-fruit to exploit, no meaningful new idea to develop & implement. Thus things like....iOS 7, cough cough, Apple Watch cough...the courageous removal of magsafe, headphone jacks, home buttons, expandable RAM/storage/batteries, cough cough cough...curved TV screens... Everyone stealing Audi's open-mouth blacked out shield/badge grille and morphing into things like the gawd-awful Lexus spindle grille...
I'm still amazed Apple remains so focused on removing things like bezels, buttons, ports, details in software, and fractions of millimeters of thickness instead of realizing opportunities in new directions they & others fail to exploit (as far as I know): a "durable iPhone" option (think: yellow durable Sony walkmans of old) since as Apple removes bezels, so does the ability to protect the edges and swipe from offscreen get clunky when adding a case; an expandable iPhone or MacBook option for those who would pay more for flexibility, ports, and expandability than thinness; a combo iPad/MacBook option that can toggle between iOS & OSX (I fail to ever believe a tablet & laptop/desktop should have the exact same interface or even UI elements). Or back to the battery topic of this thread: How about informing customers of the potential to rescue/revive their hardware via battery replacements and then provide options of some phones/computers with easy battery replacement hardware like 99% of other consumer products. I.e., true "Think Different" than what you're doing today and stop thinking you know 100% what customers might want.
I view this simply. I like Apple products and I buy Apple products.
The universe seems to like Apple products to. Oh, Don’t get me wrong they aren’t perfect. But imo the upsides to their products are far and away greater than their downsides.
When they stop producing products people don’t want, you will know it, I will know it and Cook will be out of a job.
Customers who have been with Apple for a long time have bought into the company emotionally and have a strong identification with Steve Jobs, IMO.Things are always simple to view for those like you for whom your first two paragraphs apply.For those where the 3rd paragraph starts to apply, it’s not so clear what we could or should do. I.e., the situation in the 3rd paragraph doesn’t appear overnight so I’d think any smart company like AAPL would have realized a turning of the tide long before. With most smart phones so dang alike with flat design software and glassy breaky bezelless hardware, (and with Apple’s offerings having such limited differentiation across models) there’s little opportunity for the consumer to shop with their wallet and inform Apple of our preferences. I.e. just not as big a difference imho between Apple and Android, and no real difference other than price for Apple hardware. Unless Apple or Android phones change hard, it’s still jump from the ledge of the fiery building or stay and burn.
I know it’s pretty easy for happy customers to completely not understand or even respect dissatisfactions of folk like me.And emailing Apple for feedback is useless.
Customers who have been with Apple for a long time have bought into the company emotionally and have a strong identification with Steve Jobs, IMO.
I don’t have that kind of co-dependency with Apple, my iPhone is a tool, albeit an expensive one. One that I know will last at least 5 years under normal use.
In 2013 I pitted iOS against android. Android lost and there is no reason for me to go back and look at android again as my platform of choice. I like that you can get lcd or oled on Apple flagships and there is a varied lineup.. It’s not a slam dunk I would buy oled 100% of the time.
It’s not that I don’t understand why you are frustrated it’s that what bothers you doesn’t bother me.
I give you kudos for your keen eye, I am not that picky on the interface for me it just needs to work.I have no attachment to Jobs. I just enjoyed using aapl products much more when he was around. If their products rang my bell now like they did then I couldn’t care if a talking pink poodle ran the show.
You’re lucky you like today’s offerings more than dislike. I’m looking to get back to that myself, hoping any changes increase your happiness similarly, if not leave it where it was.Put it this way - do you think you’d feel the same, worse, or better if MacBooks had more ports and serviceable innards with maybe a 1/2 mm thickness and .15 lb increase? If the iPhones kept their button and jack but with no cost increase and only .15” bezel? If the software wasn’t so low-contrast blue/grey/white/pastel-centric and the calendar, music, and voice mail/dialer apps went back to an ios6 UI/logic layout but just with an updated “cleaner” appearance, would that flip your happiness standing?
It seems there is an effort to denigrate(and get into their heads as well) a large swath of iphone users who may hold a different opinion. But you are right, there are arguments on all sides of this particular coin.
I personally however, can tell the difference between some of the differing brands of vanilla ice cream, or store brand products vs the "equivalent" manufacturers product.
I'm also fairly confident that a number of iphone users on the current versions, don't merely fret IOS too much, but actually like where Apple is going. With so many iphones and customers, each will have a different tale to tell. None of them wrong as "they" are the customers and spend their money the way they see fit.
But make no mistake, I am not debating what you find not to your liking in IOS, only what you believe a generic non-descript population of iphone users are thinking.
Do you think the population of iPhone users would find that iOS has “arguably poor design“? I can only speak for myself I like the design of iOS 11, and can’t find it “arguably poor”. Your opinion is your opinion and having a strong opinion on the design of the current iOS doesn’t make another’s opinion invalid. I personally do not think there is a “huge” community that wants iOS 6 to return. I don’t.I wish I could find my first rant on the subject - I said back then I post like this for therapy. Makes me feel better to scream from the rooftops the arguably poor design form-first decisions Jony Ive has put into iOS & OS ever since Steve departed us. Then when others would respond in agreement, I always felt better knowing I wasn't the only one that thought something just didn't seem "right" and Apple-like (IMHO). That and I secretly hoped to build a small groundswell of users who'd be more willing to spread our common views.
But, from all that, when reading responses over the years, it's given me a gut feel of the tolerance level (and preferences) for the whole pre-post iOS7 thing.
Acknowledging I may just be using poor words/phrasings, I still contend - I bet there is a large majority of users who would barely bat an eye if iOS12 was basically iOS6 UI but with newer graphics treatment for the apparently essential refreshenings. They like or tolerate iOS7 and they'd like or tolerate iOS6 as well as an iOS12 that's a lightly re-skinned version of iOS6 UI's, where buttons return with more tappable area than small text, borders return, black text returns as default instead of grey text, grey text returns to meaning it's a non-selectable option, iOS return to using squares/rectangles for certain buttons & images & contacts instead of round circles, 3D treatments return to certain functions like Music app volume & location/progress controls, and the music & podcast apps return to being more simply intuitive instead of rather unintuitive.
Having said that I believe most users (or maybe, a very large % of users) would either "quietly accept" if not instead equally enjoy either pre- or post-ios7 UI's without much noise, how is that being overly assuming?
Or maybe, here's what I think, knowing it's pure opinion. I'd be curious to hear your subjective %'s?
1. Those who detest iOS7-11 and instead prefer the iOS6 & prior UI's (not necessarily prefer some over-the-top skeumorphism, but rather the base UI): < 5%
2. Those who detest iOS6 & prior UI's (whether it's the UI, or some over-the-top skeumorphism, or both) and love, love love iOS7: <30%
3. Those who are in the middle, could go either way...call it blind obedience or anything kinder: the majority, or at least 2/3 of users (65% or so)
Do you think the population of iPhone users would find that iOS has “arguably poor design“? I can only speak for myself I like the design of iOS 11, and can’t find it “arguably poor”. Your opinion is your opinion and having a strong opinion on the design of the current iOS doesn’t make another’s opinion invalid. I personally do not think there is a “huge” community that wants iOS 6 to return. I don’t.
Your English is exemplary. In my opinion your intent is to diminish the population who doesn’t hold the same views as you.
UI design is like fashion. Time marches on and design principles change. People, in my experience, willingly accept changes where the change is for the better. That last point can’t be over-emphasized because with tens of millions of Apple customers, what constitutes “better” is subjective not objective.![]()
I don’t know who is going to “take” you up in an offer to prove something was broken in iOS 6 that was fixed in iOS 7. I am not because I believe that UI, like fashion, is always evolving opposed to fixing and thus iOS 7 and beyond, to me is arguably better than iOS 6.Ha ha. Well.....until someone takes me up on my offer and shows convincing side-by-side screenshots how the iOS7-11 way of doing something fixed something broken or in need of functional re-doing from iOS6 (to counter the many side-by-side examples I have listed often before, going the opposite direction) then yes I feel what we have today is arguably an inferior design for UI easy comprehension and intuitivity.
Coupled with articles like the one I shared a few times above by Amy Hoy which does a pretty outstanding job of arguing why the iOS7-9 UI way of doing things (which have carried over to iOS11) is generally a "worse" way of doing things (subjectivity alert, I know), I still feel the case is strong that the iOS7-11 UI is largely a fashion decision and not a function decision, but also a functionally worse decision especially as our small devices provide more and more complex functions & apps, a UI should be based on a function-first approach based on human nature and decades of research, not form & fashion. So yes, I feel the "arguably poor" statement stands until someone can show side-by-side screenshot examples of what was broken before and how iOS7-11 fixed it.Fun talks!
As far as fashion bell bottoms probably will become popular, but narrow lapels of the 50s are now popular again. So I expect the same type of recycling with UI guidelines.Ha, well, then if subjectivity rules, then yes you are right, it’s ok to change something just for the sake of change. When time marches on, it certainly should not be wearimg 70s bell-bottoms or powdered wigs right?
For me, each time I find myself having to press repeatedly to shut off my alarm in the morning since "stop" is a teeny-tiny text "button" instead of a larger "button," I can't help but feel something is not as good as it used to be. Same for the teeny-tiny 15-second advance/rewind buttonless text/icons for when listening to a podcast; too often I have no idea of my command/press "took" because the buttonless icon is completely covered by my finger, and it's not always apparent from what you're listening to that the rewind or advance was accepted. A larger button area that flashed when pressed and which could not be covered completely by my finger (like things used to be) seemed to work really well and lent itself to the prior “it just works” feeling.
So things feel worse (broken, even) than before. Maybe others don’t even notice or have similar issues.
Or the iOS voicemail screen with similarly teeny-tiny non-button commands for for Speaker, Call Back, and Delete, where 90% of the time (no exaggeration), my pressing Delete does not take and instead, the next message is selected. Because the button is so small. Then it’s a frustrating dance back and forth 2-4x to get iOS to do what I wanted. Every time I squint when trying to read light grey low-contrast text in the sun/outdoors, I can't help but feel something is really broken that used to be just fine. Less It Just Works, more frequent pauses and redo’s than before, resulting in actual frustrations. Whole other topic: spreading an app’s features over 2-3 screens instead of one, for a cleaner, more blank, less cluttered look that requires more pressing and working than before. So if those examples aren't really "broken/worse" designs, and if fashion/timeliness is acceptable to prioritize over potential objectively less-accommodating function, then I can completely see your side as to why there's no right/wrong answer for UI. Whatever we get that is fresh for the times is good enough? (sort of like, most people will accept anything, for the most part...?)
Why did a 32 to 64 bit change require a UI reinvention?
It didn’t. No idea why you’d bring it up.
There are problems in the iOS 7 design, and some have been mitigated while others haven’t. Beyond that, you just seem to like arguing about this.
There was context behind that on the original post.That’s not my idea. I’m questioning why somebody else stated that, look further up above if you so choose.
I’m not arguing about apple’s poor decisions. I’m enjoying discussing them!