Apple CEO Tim Cook Says Power Management Feature in Older iPhones Will Be Able to Be Turned Off in Future Update

[spacemnspiff]

Where does that say the iPhone 6 battery is defective by design?


As for 1. The batteries are not capable of powering the phones. That's why the throttling. That's why the lawsuits. That why this article. That's why governments are investigating apple. That's why the $29 battery replacement. These definitions of C are another poster's attempt to explain why everything above is going on. I believe the poster is right, but that is irrelevant to the issues at the start of this paragraph. You're attempting it turn it into an XY problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem and then saying since I don't want to prove Y, X must be false.

As for 2. Show me where I said Apple batteries have a high internal resistance at BOL. You are once again pretending I said something I did not. As for EOL, all batteries have a high internal resistance at EOL; that's true but irrelevant to this conversation because nobody is complaining that batteries reach EOL. Are you going to ask me to prove 1 + 1 = 2 next?

Thanks for the speculations, I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, I rest my case. You have a right to keep stating your opinions without supporting them with facts.

No, “iPhone is defective by design due to its battery” and “the iPhone battery is defective by design” are different claims. Specifically, the claim here is that the battery is a poor fit for the rest of the specs. Put in lesser CPU/GPU/etc., or beefier battery.

(I don’t know if I agree with that, but to give it some merit, iPhone 5s and older never seemed to have these problems at comparable scale.)

I agree about two different claims in the statement that you specified.

The original quote was 'Apple chose the wrong battery for their iPhones and every iPhone since the 6 is defective by design'. I asked the poster to prove the the wrong battery choice as a defective design decision. The poster is doesn't seem to want to engage in a deeper discussion to add weight to his claims, which for the most part are empty claims.

5s and older devices might not have had the same issue or might have had unreported issues related to power management. The direct correlation that iPhone 6 and above are throttled when the battery deteriorates to defective design is preposterous.

 

[RecentlyConverted]

Aren't most specs/benchmarks for pretty much most things out there that get published or used in advertisements usually come from specific environments and specialized (almost lab, if not actual lab) settings anyway?

Yes, but its good for the information to be made public, to allow the Public to make an informed decision. Like with European car efficiency tests, manufacturers can remove seats and tape up the gaps around the doors to get a better result. How stupid is that? Not real world. Obviously I knew efficiency reduced as the car aged, I didn't realise the official results were little more than a lie. Now I take that data with a pinch of salt.

 

[RickInHouston]

Where does that say the iPhone 6 battery is defective by design?


As for 1. The batteries are not capable of powering the phones. That's why the throttling. That's why the lawsuits. That why this article. That's why governments are investigating apple. That's why the $29 battery replacement. These definitions of C are another poster's attempt to explain why everything above is going on. I believe the poster is right, but that is irrelevant to the issues at the start of this paragraph. You're attempting it turn it into an XY problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem and then saying since I don't want to prove Y, X must be false.

As for 2. Show me where I said Apple batteries have a high internal resistance at BOL. You are once again pretending I said something I did not. As for EOL, all batteries have a high internal resistance at EOL; that's true but irrelevant to this conversation because nobody is complaining that batteries reach EOL. Are you going to ask me to prove 1 + 1 = 2 next?

Can I like this one thousand times???

 

[Lilok]

Next time, you ever thought of, I dunno,
They do\It's not. My Android Nexus 6 suffered from it - it's why I'm now using Apple.

I actually never wanted to get involved in this discussion, but I read that sooo often lately, and it just isn't true.
I mean, I believe you that you had this issue with the nexus 6, I believe it happens more often than I might think, but then I would also consider it a crappy battery/device.

I also heard that lot of Samsung had that problem in the past and some cheap lg.
Also faulty battery and they would change it within 2 years.

But in general, this is NOT normal for smartphones or any other device. I'm 26 years old and never experienced this issue and if i did, I also considered this devices as faulty.

Everyone is pretending to be an expert of battery technology now, thinking they are useless after about one year...
But they are not.

They get weaker, but they don't let your device shut off randomly. It may happen with some defect devices on some occasion, but other than that this is simply and almost an iPhone-only issue.

And because I read this comment that often, I think that iPhone users who don't have experience with other devices or/and are to young, are trained by apple to think that.

A battery that sucks after about one year? It's unthinkable here in Europe, cause here 2 years are legal minimum. If apple doesn't like it, they shouldn't sell they're devices here. Simple as that.


I switched about two month ago because of the same reasons (I made a thread about it, cause i was so impressed by my girlfriends Huawei).

Got an used nexus 5x, Google's flagship device from 2015....the battery still last a whole day and it benchmarks as it would on its first day.
The switch was easy btw, I don't regret it one bit.

 

[Halopend]

It amazes me the people who rush to Apples aide on an issue like this. It’s a multi-billion dollar company that hardly needs you to rush to their defence.

Instead of looking at it from an entirely naive angle (or even a completely cynical viewpoint for people spouting conspiracy theory that Apple used this to up sell more devices on purpose)

Apple found out they had a hardware problem with their phones. It would crash due to a hardware issue that showed up over time due to aging batteries that couldn’t quite keep up and supply the needed voltage for the designed cpu speeds. Basically, they designed the safety margin too thin and the balance between the thickness of the battery, cpu speed and battery life got pushed passed the limits of what they could pull off reliably.

Here is where they had a big decision to make: come forward, admit the issue and basically do a recall on millions and millions of phones or bury the issue with a software patch that could prevent the very drastic and publically visible issue of phones shutting down unexpectedly with a much less apparent slow down of their phones. Essentially a half measure because any other solution would cost too much.

Where they looking out for the user with this software patch? Yes. In so far as having a phone running at half speed is better than a phone that shuts down. In that sense.... yes they were fixing a problem in the interest of the user. But it was still a half step that might not satisfy people, when at the heart of this is is a faulty design they REALLY didn’t want to have to own up to and fix because it would cost them insane amounts of money.

Is it possible they used this as an opportunity to sell newer phones by crippling older hardware? Possibly. But I seriously doubt they did it on purpose/maliciously. It was just an unintentional side-effect of them not coming out and admitting they were patching phones to run slower to work around a hardware issue they didn’t want to have to fix physically. That’s the real reason they were silent. At the very least they wanted to sidestep the PR of dealing with the issue publicly transparently which meant they sold phones based on lie. They purposefully withheld information from the public, people were uninformed what was going on with their own phones (even their own store employees were in the dark on this) and as a result they sold even more phones because people were trying to solve a problem the didn’t know existed.

Apple breached the public's trust pure and simple. They've only come out about it now as it was about to leak. They aren't owning up to this issue in any real way or admitting that there was real consequences to what they did, they just continue to say they have our interest in their hearts when every step they have taken is clearly in the interest of theirs.

Theyll bounce back for sure as their ecosystem is so pervasive once you are in its hard to leave but I know for myself I'll be upgrading far lers and keeping a much closer eye on the competition.

 

[nerdAFK]

I'm not sure you get simple logic, then. If people believe what Apple is saying, they will believe they did nothing wrong (aside from poor communication). If they don't believe them, they will say they did something wrong. I fall into the former category, most companies would abandon the phones altogether rather than attempt to prolong the phone's life.

Anyone who believes that this type of performance reduction happened often enough that it was "slowing down your phone", does not understand the technical side of this.

Apple is not “most companies” for me, Apple is “the company”.
And I expect much better than this kind of sloppy stuff.

 

[rootee]

thats exactly what it is for the most part. people now feel justified about the whole apple is slowing down my phone to make me buy a new phone. These asshats make me sick.

Whatever the “asshats” motivations were to complain about throttling, ultimately it was enough to make Apple try to be more transparent, and they say they’ll add iOS features that both show battery health, and allow for disabling the throttling all together. This is great for iPhone users on the whole — what’s not to like?! Maybe your disdain is a little misplaced

 

[deferredAnon]

Whatever the “asshats” motivations were to complain about throttling, ultimately it was enough to make apple try to me more transparent, and they say they’ll add iOS features that both show battery health, and allow for disabling the throttling all together. This is great for iPhone users on the whole — what’s not to like?! Maybe you’re disdain is a little misplaced

Yes, I don't see where the anger comes from for a lot. Almost as if these users want Apple to continue throttling without giving an option!

 

[Tozovac]

Whatever the “asshats” motivations were to complain about throttling, ultimately it was enough to make apple try to me more transparent, and they say they’ll add iOS features that both show battery health, and allow for disabling the throttling all together. This is great for iPhone users on the whole — what’s not to like?! Maybe you’re disdain is a little misplaced

Agree. Though Apple’s offering only an on/off ability via software is still far short of what I personally would like to see from a company who says they really value giving customers a good experience. I.e. now that the cat’s finally out of the bag (and not by Apple’s own admission) how about more-easily serviceable options like perhaps hot swappable batteries even if at a decreased water resistance. Current sealed glass phones is like sending soldiers into battle wearing Cinderella high heel glass slippers epoxied to their feet.

Isn’t it getting time to think beyond delicate design perfection, or still too soon for customers to demand more priority on this and/or companies like Apple to recognize it on their own?

 

[decafjava]

What are you saying? Warranty should last forever for battery? There is a 1 yeard hardware warranty and 2 with Apple Care.
[doublepost=1516238977][/doublepost]
Google! The model of transparency and putting customers first, particularly their privacy and security.

Except we're not Google's customers but their product, but I think you know that.

Apple still messed up and am glad they got egg on their face and have to do what they should have done in the first place.

 

[Baymowe335]

Except we're not Google's customers but their product, but I think you know that.

Apple still messed up and am glad they got egg on their face and have to do what they should have done in the first place.

Messing up communication and legally responsible are 2 very different things. I think Apple is trying its best to make customers happy once again. Legally, this will be essentially nothing.

 

[TiggrToo]

I'm 26 years old and never experienced this issue and if i did, I also considered this devices as faulty.

Sorry, but what's your age got to do with anything?

A battery that sucks after about one year? It's unthinkable here in Europe, cause here 2 years are legal minimum. If apple doesn't like it, they shouldn't sell they're devices here. Simple as that.

You need to look more at what's covered because - even in Europe - it's far less than you think. That 2 year warranty doesn't always cover consumables, for starters and secondly, according to EU wide law, if you've any issue after 6 months then YOU have to prove the item was defective from the date of delivery. For example: (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm)

After six months, you can still hold the seller responsible for any defects during the full two-year guarantee period. However, if the seller contests this, you must be able to prove that the defect existed at the time of delivery. This is often difficult, and you will probably have to involve a technical expert.
​

Granted, some EU member states go above this, Portugal, for example, has 2 years.

In addition, Apple's warranty doesn't cover batteries: (https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/warranty/products/uk-ireland-universal-warranty.html)

This warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings that are designed to diminish over time​

You should read EU Directive 1999/44/EC that deals with all this - it's dry, but informative.

 

[MH01]

You’re correct that nobody can provide the data.

However, that hasn’t stopped numerous posters making false claims about what’s going on. And positioning those claims as fact, not opinion. Curious why I haven’t seen you call any of them out.

Geez..... do you even realise you are doing exactly what they are? If you are going to call people out for proof, you need to supply proof for your side of the arguement. This here is logical fallacy at its best.

It's getting very boring when your "out" of any debate is to ask for proof you know only Apple has access to, for analytics. This is High school grade logic. Just take your ball and go home

 

[deanthedev]

Geez..... do you even realise you are doing exactly what they are? If you are going to call people out for proof, you need to supply proof for your side of the arguement. This here is logical fallacy at its best.

It's getting very boring when your "out" of any debate is to ask for proof you know only Apple has access to, for analytics. This is High school grade logic. Just take your ball and go home

Sorry, I'm not the one making absolute claims without evidence to back it up. It's getting boring having to call you out on your lies all the time.

 

[I7guy]

Geez..... do you even realise you are doing exactly what they are? If you are going to call people out for proof, you need to supply proof for your side of the arguement. This here is logical fallacy at its best.

It's getting very boring when your "out" of any debate is to ask for proof you know only Apple has access to, for analytics. This is High school grade logic. Just take your ball and go home

You don’t have to provide “proof” because you asked someone where they got their stats from, unless there is a big imo in that sentence.

 

[smorrissey]

I didnt know Melania was a reporter....

 

[Mirice99]

As if anything would be good enough for the haters.

As if anything would outrage the cultists with their blind loyalty.

 

[MH01]

You don’t have to provide “proof” because you asked someone where they got their stats from, unless there is a big imo in that sentence.

Look, without any of us having access to the analytics that these devices capture , any reasonable and analytical individual knows that proof cannot be provided. It's just a cheap debating technique.
[doublepost=1516388429][/doublepost]

Sorry, I'm not the one making absolute claims without evidence to back it up. It's getting boring having to call you out on your lies all the time.

I'm yet to see you ever provide any stats .....

Though you are happy to counter any opinion without evidence .... is that not hypocrisy? Instead of shouting "show me proof" provide proof why an opinion is not valid based on your evidence .

How am I lieing ? Prove it or you are in fact lieing ...... go on prove where I have lied on this thread ? Personal insults ? Really ?

 

[gatearray]

This company is so full of it ...

I am so sick of seeing that phony rube pretend he knows WTF he's talking about.

Tim Cook could have NEVER built this company, Steve chose him to inherit the job of CEO because Cook was the WORST and least charismatic of the entire executive team, and least threat to SJ's legacy.

 

[Keirasplace]

That’s one way to look at it. Another that’s been said repeatedly in this thread is: users were never made aware that a $79 battery swap could potentially “rescue” their phone that was often aggravatingly slow. I had a 5S that was so very snappy for years then almost overnight seemed to pause and drag to the point of unusability, often after one of the recent iOS upgrades which left me thinking my 3 year “old” phone just couldn’t work with this fancy new iOS upgrade anymore and my only option was another damn expensive phone after only a few years of good use for the one I had. Not unlike Ford never communicating to owners the “option” of tune ups and oil changes to address operational issues that are likely to arise after a few years of use.

Whether it’s this “withholding” of key info by not communicating it effectively, or not giving the option/ability to easily swap/upgrade batteries and give owners more flexibility to prolong the life of their hardware - THOSE are deserved critiques even for those of us who understand the point of the energy management thing.

The info was there, when they "throtled" it appeared in settings. Apple probably thought most people preferred this to random crashing... But, hey, maybe not.

They should probably put a message on the screen a way say telling them they were in that mode; a warning many would have disregarded... Because hey, my phone works.

Not sure what else beyond that they could have done.

The claims that many upgraded just for that reason (considering it came in 10.2.1, that means many of the people upgrading from 10.2.1 in feb to october upgraded just because of that... I doubt that very much. If the phone's battery is beat enough to enter this mode you are either a very heavy use (if this happens within 12-18 months) and thus more likely to upgrade your phone often, or to be past 2 or 3 years, the normal traditional time frame to upgrade a phone (that's the case for every high end phone right now).

The fact upgrade cycles have increased while battery tech has certainly not muddies this a bit.
Many people upgraded their phones in the past BEFORE they actually needed a new battery, so they never really had to deal with it.

Smart Phone Usage has also intensified greatly (IOS phones have always had the most intense usage be it web, app, etc) meaning that batteries get beat up a lot more than before.
[doublepost=1516389767][/doublepost]

I am so sick of seeing that phony rube pretend he knows WTF he's talking about.

Tim Cook could have NEVER built this company, Steve chose him to inherit the job of CEO because Cook was the WORST and least charismatic of the entire executive team, and least threat to SJ's legacy.

Right.. Are you Jobs, I'm going to call BS on your crap.

 

[Baymowe335]

As if anything would outrage the cultists with their blind loyalty.

Some of us live in reality that companies and life aren't perfect, but everything isn't a conspiracy against the consumer.

 

[Tozovac]

The info was there, when they "throtled" it appeared in settings. Apple probably thought most people preferred this to random crashing... But, hey, maybe not.

They should probably put a message on the screen a way say telling them they were in that mode; a warning many would have disregarded... Because hey, my phone works.

Not sure what else beyond that they could have done.

Looking at it from my own personal experience with my 5S that was becoming cripplingly slow to the point of unusanility, just like how ios7 killed my iPhone 4 to the point of near unusability until I dumb-luck happened to pay $30 at a local independent guy to install a 3 month old used battery into my 3 year old 5S. Nowhere did Apple inform me as a user that perhaps a $79 battery replacement could rescue my 5S and be the cause of the noticeable slowdown. I guess that’s the issue.

If Apple put 1/10th the of recent efforts towards killing laptops via iPads, and about 3D Animojis and dancing poop emojis, into communicating that a $79 battery might render their phone useful again, then that would have been a great thing they could have done. That to me is the crux of all the hoopla. Even after searching online all I could find re: slowing phones was “buy a newer one.”

 

[C DM]

Looking at it from my own personal experience with my 5S that was becoming cripplingly slow to the point of unusanility, just like how ios7 killed my iPhone 4 to the point of unusability, nowhere did Apple inform me as a user that perhaps a $79 battery replacement could rescue my 5S and be the cause of the noticeable slowdown. I guess that’s the issue.

If Apple put 1/10th the of recent efforts towards killing laptops via iPads, and about 3D Animojis and dancing poop emojis, into communicating that a $79 battery might render their phone useful again, then that would have been a great thing they could have done. That to me is the crux of all the hoopla. Even after searching online all I could find re: slowing phones was “buy a newer one.”

I don't think the whole power management part of it applies to iPhones prior to 6.

 

[Tozovac]

I don't think the whole power management part of it applies to iPhones prior to 6.

Yeah you’re right, I wondered about that when I read that too somewhere. Somehow a replaced battery brought mine back to zippier life.

My comments tho should still stand for others.

 

[I7guy]

Look, without any of us having access to the analytics that these devices capture , any reasonable and analytical individual knows that proof cannot be provided. It's just a cheap debating technique.

Then there is a lot of ongoing cheap debating. One can avoid wording their posts in such a manner as to fall in the “cheap debate” category.
[doublepost=1516393160][/doublepost]

Looking at it from my own personal experience with my 5S that was becoming cripplingly slow to the point of unusanility, just like how ios7 killed my iPhone 4 to the point of near unusability until I dumb-luck happened to pay $30 at a local independent guy to install a 3 month old used battery into my 3 year old 5S. Nowhere did Apple inform me as a user that perhaps a $79 battery replacement could rescue my 5S and be the cause of the noticeable slowdown. I guess that’s the issue.

If Apple put 1/10th the of recent efforts towards killing laptops via iPads, and about 3D Animojis and dancing poop emojis, into communicating that a $79 battery might render their phone useful again, then that would have been a great thing they could have done. That to me is the crux of all the hoopla. Even after searching online all I could find re: slowing phones was “buy a newer one.”

Both of my 5s operate at essentially the same speed. One however has much better battery life than the other.