Let me know where in the bible it says its against christianity to bake a cake for gay people. Making or selling a cake has nothing to do with the sin of homosexuality.
If you are selling sex toys, I might understand.
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Apple CEO Tim Cook Speaks Out Against Indiana's 'Religious Freedom' Law
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Let me know where in the bible it says its against christianity to bake a cake for gay people. Making or selling a cake has nothing to do with the sin of homosexuality.
If you are selling sex toys, I might understand.
Read the Congressional Record
After the end of the civil war, there were congressional debates about the growing "Black Codes" and segregated schools and so on in the former confederacy. You can still read the records for a little instruction. A Senator speaking in favor of Plessis v. Ferguson, establishing the "right" to segregated transportation uttered the phrase "the right to hate." Seriously.
If you're a Justice of the Peace in a state where gay marriage has become legal, you should realize that you're not up there fulfilling a religious role. You're a servant of the laws of the US and the state you are in. If your "religious scruples" stand in the way of marrying two people who have the right to get married, consider another line of employment. Your position is SECULAR.
After the end of the civil war, there were congressional debates about the growing "Black Codes" and segregated schools and so on in the former confederacy. You can still read the records for a little instruction. A Senator speaking in favor of Plessis v. Ferguson, establishing the "right" to segregated transportation uttered the phrase "the right to hate." Seriously.
If you're a Justice of the Peace in a state where gay marriage has become legal, you should realize that you're not up there fulfilling a religious role. You're a servant of the laws of the US and the state you are in. If your "religious scruples" stand in the way of marrying two people who have the right to get married, consider another line of employment. Your position is SECULAR.
And as a stock holder, I am not necessarily thrilled at resourced being spent on anything other than activities that drive the stock price up.
Nicky G, I get that you don't agree with this law being passed and by the number of posts you have made in this thread it would appear that you are passionate in those beliefs. However, when you make your argument, please stick to accurate and truth based claims.
You have more than once now in this thread made these ridiculously false statements regarding what the Bible puts forth as requirements for faith. I'm sorry, but you clearly don't understand the relationship between the old and new testaments and between the old and new covenants if you are appealing to tired and overused fallacies like beards, tattoos, and shellfish.
Many others have gone before you in throwing out these ignorant kinds of statements. Please understand, I mean no offense, and don't use the word ignorant as an attack, but as an adjective to describe the uninformed and uneducated nature of the comments you are making. Yes, there are some orthodox Jewish sects who might push adhereance to levitical purity laws, but when taken as a whole the message of the Bible does not put forth such extreme externally focused criteria for faithful living.
If you want to disagree with Biblical positions then feel free to do so and I respect your right to state such, but let's make sure we are not putting forth false statements about what the Bible truly says.
Runebinder, see above addressed to Nicky G as it also applies to your comments. Thanks.
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And if I'm the only Dr in town and don't agree with my patients religious belief, can I refuse to treat them? What is this the USSR?
So should they also be able to turn you away if your black cause your faith is a white only faith. Should they turn away females cause you are a Muslim devote faith females have no place out side the home. This slope is so slippery. The design is to single out gay people but I can use it for just about anything I want and you can't stop me. This nullifies laws that ment to keep the playing field fair for all.
In the words of Tim Cook: "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock."
A sextoy store will, and always have sold, gay and straight sex toys. Part of the reason why is that it's often hard to tell which is which. They're bi.
If somebody's religion is only freely exercised if they discriminate against people who don't practice their religion, that's a sick dogma. Doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with Jesus' teachings. Yeah, Jesus' position on gays was... Well, he never mentioned them, actually. Not one word.
If you're the one throwing people out of your business based on how they were born, you're the discriminator; not being legally protected to treat people as lesser human beings is not discrimination.
Lot's of queens lost their heads over the christianity thing.
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Point being, Apple is not obliged to give to charity. In fact, I am sure they get plenty of pressure to do otherwise.
Steven Wright: "What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
Point #1 -- Please don't speak for others.
Point #2 -- Selling gasoline or groceries has nothing to do with "religious beliefs". Marriage, yes that does so that's where the wedding cake comes into play.
Could anyone "run a gay couple out of town" over a wedding cake?
I don't understand why religious people get special treatment in the US.
Opinions based on religion are no different from someone's personal opinions.
Complaining that the government is forcing you to go against your religious beliefs, is no different from complaining they are forcing you to go against something you simply 'want' to do.
Say someone 'wanted' to discriminate against people because of their race... or perhaps they 'wanted' to abuse kids. Just because you 'want' to do something that doesn't mean you can, especially when it harms others in some way. This is what being a part of a civilised society is all about.
Governments exist to maintain order in society, so of course they should prevent this sort discrimination.
The contents of old books of myths and fable have absolutely no bearing on the matter.
Opinions based on religion are no different from someone's personal opinions.
Complaining that the government is forcing you to go against your religious beliefs, is no different from complaining they are forcing you to go against something you simply 'want' to do.
Say someone 'wanted' to discriminate against people because of their race... or perhaps they 'wanted' to abuse kids. Just because you 'want' to do something that doesn't mean you can, especially when it harms others in some way. This is what being a part of a civilised society is all about.
Governments exist to maintain order in society, so of course they should prevent this sort discrimination.
The contents of old books of myths and fable have absolutely no bearing on the matter.
I may have missed it, but did TC also send a similar message to King Salman in Saudi Arabia? Or Maybe PM of UAE? It's easy to take a stand when you know you are safe
Fair point. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some kind of data demonstrating a net benefit to the company by making this statement (that doesn't imply he doesn't actually disagree with the legislation, just that there would likely be some consideration to the effect on Apple's bottom line).
Yes, if I'm a doctor who doesn't believe in abortion I shouldn't have to provide an abortion to someone.
I'm Catholic, so I don't point to specific Bible verses to prove everything. In Catholic theology, moral precepts grow and develop from certain first principles, and we don't see the Bible as simply a list of rules.
But anyway, I have given some thought to what I would do if I owned a bakery. The issue for me would be what Catholics call scandal - that I would seem to be saying something by my actions that I don't believe or intend to say.
One solution would be to not do wedding cakes at all, for anyone. This would probably be economic suicide because the margins on wedding cakes are responsible for a great deal of the shop's profitability.
I've thought perhaps one could say "I don't sell wedding cakes, but I do sell multi-tiered cakes that can be used for any purpose. But you have to pick them up yourself, they will not be delivered to a venue."
I would not want to make gays feel unwelcome, but I would not want to dispense with my conscience to achieve that, either. I'm honestly not sure what the right answer is, but I think we need to pay wide deference to business owners who are struggling to figure this out. These are not people who are putting "No fags" signs in their window, as this issue has been grossly mischaracterized as.
So If an atheist dr lets a christian patient die from a treatable illness, you are ok about that?
Yep. And if you don't like it take your business elsewhere and tell friends and family to do the same. How difficult is it to vote with your wallet?
I think you missed a word "government should not have the right". Its crazy that a law has to be passed to protect people who want to freely dissociate themselves from other people. If you don't like it, fine, boycott the business, have a SJW hate fest, promote "progressive" businesses that will fill this need. Using police state tactics to force people to do business with someone against their values will backfire, as it should
Shame on TC for sticking his nose again into politics because of his personal, sexual preferences. Apple has an excellent business opportunity here to take over the wedding cake and photography market from all of these bigot Christians, what a wasted opportunity.