Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This is NOT just about sexual orientation, people are assuming it is and that is indeed a part of it, but it is about so much more. It is about the rights to practice what you believe.

And being white or black isn't a religion, so no they shouldn't have that right. And I have known many businesses who do stick strictly to what they believe in and you know what, they are usually the most successful businesses.

For example, we have a car dealership out here in California that was bought by a Christian Family and they decided that they were going to close on Sunday (something that in some parts of the country is illegal for a car dealership to do by the way). Prior to them buying the dealership, Sundays were the busiest sales day for this dealership. The city even tried to stop them from closing on Sundays, luckily our laws didn't allow them to do that. And you know what happened? Their sales were double what they were the previous year (oh and they bought the dealership after a really good year) and have increased every year since then, even during the economic downturn. They stuck to their religious beliefs, despite being persecuted by the city, etc. and it has paid off for them.

Now what would have happened if they were in one of the areas that is able to prevent them from closing on Sunday. They would have either had to remain open on Sunday, against their religious beliefs or risk jail time.

The same thing can be said about morning after pills, same sex marriage, abortion and a number of other issues. This is about protecting the freedoms of everyone, no matter what their religious views are.

You picked a really ridiculous analogy. Not serving on a Sunday is not the same as not selling to a particular group of people.

Being white is a religion for some and it was law up until not so long ago that black people had to stand on the bus and would not get served in particular places.

This is about sexual orientation. If it was about beliefs, this law wouldn't get even mentioned as the right to refuse admission is already lawful and covers any business owners right to refuse. It's just that now they can say they can refuse you because you are gay without being attacked by the media.
 
How does a gay person buying a wedding cake put others in danger? How does a shop owner protect the rest of society by not serving gay people? Are gay people supposed to say 'ok you win, I'll be straight now because Homophobe Cakes R Us can't make a 6 tier fruit and nut caramel delux with lemon icing for me'?

I won't attempt to visualize what a religious person may suffer if their religion is attacked, but offense can strike at any person. I am an Atheist, yet find perversion to be unacceptable. Even so, I have no interest in trying to change someone's behaviour, simply because I don't like it.

However, no-one should have the right to bring their perversion into my life.
 
But it is perfectly fine for irreligious people to get away with the very poor behavior of sleeping with whomever they please and spreading venereal diseases which, correct me if I'm wrong, affects the lives of other people (Note: I'm speaking of all kinds of sexual immorality here, not merely homosexual).

Who, or what entity deems that "sleeping with whomever they please" is "poor behaviour"?

Venereal diseases are just diseases. They are more taboo because of the sexual nature, but they are simply diseases none the less. No different to influenza, a fungal nail infection, tuberculosis, or any other communicable disease.
 
Like political philosophies religions have numerous prohibitions and prejudices. It is not wrong at all for people to believe what they believe. In fact it is being honest.

Baking a wedding cake is in a small way participating in a wedding. If the wedding is one that the baker believes is wrong to participate in then the correct decision is to say no.

There's a big difference between refusing to support homosexual activity and refusing to support homosexuals. It's the difference between disapproving of people's actions and disapproving of the way people are born or develop (either way, something they can't control). The second one is comparable to discriminating based on race, but people like to mix them up intentionally.
 
Last edited:
I've never known a disrespectful Christian or Muslim, but I know plenty of disrespectful atheists like you who complain. Though most of them are respectful.

Dumbest post of all time.

----------

I won't attempt to visualize what a religious person may suffer if their religion is attacked, but offense can strike at any person. I am an Atheist, yet find perversion to be unacceptable. Even so, I have no interest in trying to change someone's behaviour, simply because I don't like it.

However, no-one should have the right to bring their perversion into my life.

Define perversion for us please?
 
And the baker would be incorrect as Mormons are Christians. And this is a two way street, there very well could be those that refuse to sell to straight couples due to their religious beliefs and that should be their right to do so.

Well, that's where the problems start to arise as not all Christian faiths consider Mormons as Christians; but the law doesn't really care about correctness since you essentially are free to discriminate based on beliefs, which are not subject to a rigorous standard of correct. Unless, of course, the same people who support this law now want government to step in and decide what religious beliefs are correct and thus allow discrimination under the law.

I agree it is a two way street; and expect the same people who were in favor of it to cry persecution if it is used against them. Or, when companies stop doing business in Indiana because of their beliefs in the wrongness of the law, claim the companies hate Christians.
 
Dumbest post of all time.

----------



Define perversion for us please?

perversion |pəˈvəːʃ(ə)n|
noun [ mass noun ]
1 distortion or corruption of the original course, meaning, or state of something: the thing which most disturbed him was the perversion of language and truth | [ count noun ] : a scandalous perversion of the law.
2 sexual behaviour that is considered abnormal and unacceptable. his book revolutionized ideas about sexual perversion. [ count noun ] : he indulged in most perversions you could care to name.
 
I believe there are some in the homosexual community who actively seek to pervert the law for their own social / political devices. I don't agree with that mindset. At the same time, that kind of mentality is not limited to those individuals in the homosexual community. I believe that there are many groups who have the same kind of mentality. And it is often a mentality that denounces judicial activism, while at the same time calling on and using that same philosophy to get what is wanted at the expense of the foundation of our Republic.

Again, much agreed.

Personally, I'm sick of this whole debate on homosexuality. It is the wrong discussion to be having. If the Christian community is serious about redressing sexual immorality, it needs to retarget to include fornication and adultery which, statistically speaking, are far more significant. But that boat sailed with the 60's if not earlier. And the problem is that laws against it won't change behavior. The culture of the nation must turn first and that is not likely to happen.
 
Then your laws are wrong.

Skin colour and sexual orientation are controlled by your genes, neither are a moral issue or a matter of 'choice'. Do you remember 'choosing' to be attracted to people of the opposite sex? Of course not, it's just an irrational urge that you can't control, triggered by your teenage hormones. Gay people simply have this flipped the other way, it's utterly ridiculous to discriminate against them for it.

I'm actually from the UK, but I think these issues transcend petty manmade concepts such as countries and religions. This is about human beings treating each-other as equals, living in peace, trying to move forward, and improve things for everyone.

Currently, there has been no evidence presented which determines that perversion is caused by genes. If that were the case, it could be eliminated forever.
 
i disrespect any view based on desert nomads and their alleged holy books. Think for yourself.

Yes but no one cares whether you or I disrespect any view based on desert nomads and their alleged holy books. It is the liberty of the believer that we are concerned with. The believer has sole ownership of their views and opinions just as you and I have sole ownership of ours.
 
perversion |pəˈvəːʃ(ə)n|
noun [ mass noun ]
1 distortion or corruption of the original course, meaning, or state of something: the thing which most disturbed him was the perversion of language and truth | [ count noun ] : a scandalous perversion of the law.
2 sexual behaviour that is considered abnormal and unacceptable. his book revolutionized ideas about sexual perversion. [ count noun ] : he indulged in most perversions you could care to name.

And how does it apply to gay people? Does different mean perversion? Could this be more your issue of being prude rather than perversion by others?

Edit: Apologies, that wasn't for you.
 
Who, or what entity deems that "sleeping with whomever they please" is "poor behaviour"?

Venereal diseases are just diseases. They are more taboo because of the sexual nature, but they are simply diseases none the less. No different to influenza, a fungal nail infection, tuberculosis, or any other communicable disease.

And this is why things won't improve anytime soon on the teen pregnancy, sex trafficking or STD side of things: sex has lost its sanctity. It is considered merely a bodily function with no social responsibility attached to its indulgence beyond obtaining consent (to the best of ones knowledge) (and maybe a condom) before enjoy it.
 
You seem to be assuming that if someone is born with an inclination to behave in a certain way then such behavior should be protected. Why would you do that? That would seem to necessitate that you protect the right of a pedophile to molest children since they too are born with their inclination (please note that I am not equating homosexuals to pedophiles. I am merely taking your assumptions to their logical conclusion).

So you are saying that you are behaviorally inclined to be attracted to the opposite sex? You were not born a heterosexual?

By the way, I find it disgusting that you are using pedophilia as part of your counter argument. Homosexuals do not force themselves on unsuspecting or defenseless people just because they are homosexuals. Whereas pedophiles prey on children.
 
Odd how a law like this would pass in this day and age. My gf would say this is the work of satan masquerading as Christian law. I tend to believe her. A true Christian wouldn't turn away anyone just because of what they believe or who they love.
 
Hmm... interesting. I ask you about the relationship between the old/new testament - old/new covenant and point out the ignorance with which you argue that people of faith today are required to obey levitical purity laws regarding shellfish, beards, etc. in order to be consistent in their faith and you respond with pointing to misinterpretations of New Testament passages about homosexuality. Wow, dodge much?

There have been multiple books written to argue the interpretations of New Testament passages regarding the subject of homosexuality. Writers, skeptics, and apologists, have gone to great lengths to twist and turn correct exegesis and ignore the whole of the scriptural message about marriage. But, that's not what I was specifically asking you about was it?

Tell me, how many books have been written regarding the insistence that modern people of faith are still under the old covenant and therefore beholden to the Levitical food laws, hygiene laws, and clothing laws. Um, none of which I'm aware. That's right, there isn't a group out there saying that new covenant Christians are abandoning their faith because they are rampantly growing beards, eating shrimp and wearing blended fabrics. Hmm... why is that? Oh yeah, it's because the only people who make ridiculous arguments like that are folks on the internet who don't know enough about the Bible to intelligently and accurately discuss it. Seriously, "if I had a dime for every time" I've seen someone foolishly pull that nonsense out like it was some kind of "theological trump card" that defeats the arguments of believers and sends them off scurrying in their hypocrisy.

Simply put, you are putting forth as fact that the Bible says one thing about how people of faith should live (no beards, no shellfish, no polyester, etc.) when in truth the Bible says no such thing. In fact, a correct theology of the Law and the Old/New Covenants clearly contradicts what you are saying. I sincerely hope you understand what I'm saying because continuing to appeal to this kind of ignorance only destroys the credibility of your argument.

Stick with the article you referenced. Although it is incorrect in it's interpretations, it is at least a better argument than grasping at the straws of trying to apply Old Testament Levitical law to post covenant followers of Christ. Sorry Nicky G, you can't take scripture out of context and make it say what you want it to say.

Thank you most sincerely for taking the time to study the Scripture and apply it honestly.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.