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You’re devaluing cook. Cook is NOT Ballmer, far from it. Cook is a genius in his own right and was always viewed as one of the brains at Apple who killed it behind he scenes. He’s grown into his role as CEO, who Jobs handpicked to run the company. Jobs respected and trusted Cook.

Let’s not act like Cook has done nothing. Just a few examples. He’s grown iPhone to over 3X the shipments under jobs, quietly led efforts for the best mobile silicon in the industry, developed the #1 watch in the world, the number #1 wearables market, 230M paid subscribers to various services, and 38M Music subscribers.

He’s led the stock to record valuation in a fiercely competitive market.

Yes, Cook inherited a great company, but HE himself made it great because he was there and continues to make it greater as CEO. It is not easy to stay on top and he’s done that very well with loads more competition.

Apple is eating Samsung’s lunch and still leading the industry. Look no further than FaceID, wireless, Watch, and yes, Animoji. Notice how Samsung is “innovating?” Lol...

again: you're not actually arguing what I said.

you're reinforcing it.

Yes. Cook was absolutely and absolutely is an amazing financials and supply line guy who is great for financial reasons. exactly what I said.

he's not a product person.

all the things you're talking about are financial. Would I want Cook in place as my supply guy? financial guy? or the guy who makes me rich? yes. ABSOLUTELY.

do I think he's capable of steering the products design and categories? no. I think he's done a terrible job at it.

that's the comparison to Ballmer.
[doublepost=1521906407][/doublepost]
Ballme is given a bad wrap. He did a lot of good things that set MSFT up for what it is today, just like the Cook detractors argue Jobs did for Cook.

The market has just changed the way they value Microsoft. Granted, that’s partially due to a change in vision with Nadella.

When Apple changes the Street’s perception that they are not just a hardware company, watch out. It’s already happening. Well, it was until Trump started talking trade.
yes. They're pivotting

good. they need to. Nothing wrong with becoming a services company

like we discussed once before though. I'm not sure how he can do it though while still tying the service directly to hardware.

Hardware is fickle. Im not a doomsayer, and I don't think Apple is any way doomed. But I tink that for Apple to truly take off in the services industry, they need to open up servicers to other platforms.

the "WHAT IF" scenario that has investors questioning the move to Services is what IF (it's an IF, not a when, there's no guarantee) Apple's hardware no longer sells well? it's happened in the past, it COULD happen in the future.

with services tied directly to the hardware, a decline in hardware would potentially also decline their services. right NOW at least, both services and Apple hardware are tied at the hip.

Apple music's availability on other platforms is a good directional change that they will need to continue on, with other services. Once they manage that, they'll be seen as a service company. But right now there services are an extension of the hardware.
 
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again: you're not actually arguing what I said.

you're reinforcing it.

Yes. Cook was absolutely and absolutely is an amazing financials and supply line guy who is great for financial reasons. exactly what I said.

he's not a product person.

all the things you're talking about are financial. Would I want Cook in place as my supply guy? financial guy? or the guy who makes me rich? yes. ABSOLUTELY.

do I think he's capable of steering the products design and categories? no. I think he's done a terrible job at it.

that's the comparison to Ballmer.
[doublepost=1521906407][/doublepost]
yes. They're pivotting

good. they need to. Nothing wrong with becoming a services company

like we discussed once before though. I'm not sure how he can do it though while still tying the service directly to hardware.

Hardware is fickle. Im not a doomsayer, and I don't think Apple is any way doomed. But I tink that for Apple to truly take off in the services industry, they need to open up servicers to other platforms.

the "WHAT IF" scenario that has investors questioning the move to Services is what IF (it's an IF, not a when, there's no guarantee) Apple's hardware no longer sells well? it's happened in the past, it COULD happen in the future.

with services tied directly to the hardware, a decline in hardware would potentially also decline their services. right NOW at least, both services and Apple hardware are tied at the hip.

Apple music's availability on other platforms is a good directional change that they will need to continue on, with other services. Once they manage that, they'll be seen as a service company. But right now there services are an extension of the hardware.
Fwiw, “both” of you are arguing different points. His post did not reinforce your post. There is no debate Apple grew. But the op said TC is a genius in his own right and somehow that reinforces your view TC is a great supply chain manger person. I do think he has the capability of steering product direction and he is doing this carefully.

As far as opening up their services, if Jobs didn’t do it, cook is probably not going to do it.
 
Fwiw, “both” of you are arguing different points. His post did not reinforce your post. There is no debate Apple grew. But the op said TC is a genius in his own right and somehow that reinforces your view TC is a great supply chain manger person. I do think he has the capability of steering product direction and he is doing this carefully.

As far as opening up their services, if Jobs didn’t do it, cook is probably not going to do it.

I don't see Cook doing it either. Which when we talk about stock value (which Bowman keeps bringing up as some defining factor of success here), I keep pointing out why Apple's stock and performance is "bearish" compared to others.

IBM, Microsoft, Honeywell, Google, ETC, the companies considered "Blue Chip" which he constantly talks down about and says are over valued, are evidence of service companies.

They provide services independant of any physical platform. NONE of them require any of their own hardwares to be succesful services. This is also why Apple, is not a service company and not as "bullish" as the rest of them.

As long as TC keeps to the iOS and MacOS tie down of Apple services, this cannot change, especially in the eyes of traders and those who set the valuations of stocks. if Surface lineup fails and stops selling tomorrow, Microsoft's services will not be impacted in any shape or form. They'll just continue doing what they do now and provide those identical services on all platforms (where capable, such as iOS, Google, QNX, etc etc etc).

if iOS sales dried up tomorrow (I don't believe itll happen, but Neither did Blackberry, so stranger things have happened), Apples services do to. They do not have any significant corporate penetration. they're devices / services aren't powering the worlds infrastructure.

if anything, I would back off calling them either services or hardware. I would call them a consumer facing products company.

but if something happens that shakes consumers confidence and iOS device sales tank, so do their services since most of them require their hardware platform to be succesful.

people keep telling him this and he keeps ignoring it saying Apple's a service company. As long as this ecosystem lock down for service exists, they will not be a service company. Even if they do sell services.
 
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again: you're not actually arguing what I said.

you're reinforcing it.

Yes. Cook was absolutely and absolutely is an amazing financials and supply line guy who is great for financial reasons. exactly what I said.

he's not a product person.

all the things you're talking about are financial. Would I want Cook in place as my supply guy? financial guy? or the guy who makes me rich? yes. ABSOLUTELY.

do I think he's capable of steering the products design and categories? no. I think he's done a terrible job at it.

that's the comparison to Ballmer.
[doublepost=1521906407][/doublepost]
yes. They're pivotting

good. they need to. Nothing wrong with becoming a services company

like we discussed once before though. I'm not sure how he can do it though while still tying the service directly to hardware.

Hardware is fickle. Im not a doomsayer, and I don't think Apple is any way doomed. But I tink that for Apple to truly take off in the services industry, they need to open up servicers to other platforms.

the "WHAT IF" scenario that has investors questioning the move to Services is what IF (it's an IF, not a when, there's no guarantee) Apple's hardware no longer sells well? it's happened in the past, it COULD happen in the future.

with services tied directly to the hardware, a decline in hardware would potentially also decline their services. right NOW at least, both services and Apple hardware are tied at the hip.

Apple music's availability on other platforms is a good directional change that they will need to continue on, with other services. Once they manage that, they'll be seen as a service company. But right now there services are an extension of the hardware.
I also said he's "grown into his role as CEO" which you ignored. He's a supply chain/numbers guy, AND a product guy. Here's the thing...the shareholders DON'T agree that he's "not a product guy" and just gave Cook a ringing endorsement in the Shareholders meeting last month.

http://www.businessinsider.com/appl...-a-huge-vote-of-confidence-to-tim-cook-2018-2

You saying "he's not a product guy" doesn't mean it's true. AirPods, Watch, and the continued domination of iPad (is there another tablet?) and iPhone are proof he can lead with new hardware. iPhone is very different than the iPhone of the Jobs era and far more successful. Kudos to Jobs for residing over the development of the greatest consumer product of all time, but Cook has had a substantial influence on iPhone while taking it to the next level. Jobs didn't even want a large screen iPhone. Cook knew that needed to change.

The progress Apple has made in silicon and their own chip development has also been impressive, a focus for Cook.
 
AirPods, Watch, and the continued domination of iPad (is there another tablet?) and iPhone are proof he can lead with new hardware.

AirPods are not "new product category" but an extension of existing bluetooth wireless devices. Though the W1 and how convenient they are are good.

Watch is an interesting take. is it sucesfull? we don't know. we know it's sold a few million, but the % of iPhone users who have purchased it is very very low. The sales of Watch are so low in comparison to all the other products that they are not provided their own product category in Apple's financials and are only part of 6% of their revenues and hardly a game changer. THis is also completely ignoring the fact that the project of the Apple watch started under Steve, not Tim

the iPhone has been absolutely lack luster since the 5s. the 6 was a reactionary growth of size to meet market demands that was created outside of Apple, and many like myself consider the design of the iPhone 6 to be very plain and un-apple like. the internals are great, but thats not under his pervue. "make the CPU faster" is not leading when it's an automatic process (by brliliant engineers, and T.C. constantly refering to it as magical really shows me he doesn't understand the process either, every new CPU should be faster than the previous, so giving him credit for such internal growth is absolutely ludicrous). And that same design lasted from 6, 6s, 7 and now 8. the X is potentially a new design under his watch and we shall see it's performance (I don't look at a single quarter and look for trends)

EVERY product success he has had has had it's roots in the Steve Jobs era.

again. He's a fantastic business man. He's not a fantastic steerer of consumer electronics design and implementation.

maybe he's not a bad CEO, but Apple in the last 5 years is missing product guys who can steer the product people to making things new. Apple hasn't come up with any NEW products that either weren't already in the pipeline and shown success. (Too early on the HomePod, but that'll be a defining moment for him)

in addition, we see under him that when the leaders focus on a specific product category, the others suffer and stagnate.
 
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I don't see Cook doing it either. Which when we talk about stock value (which Bowman keeps bringing up as some defining factor of success here), I keep pointing out why Apple's stock and performance is "bearish" compared to others.

IBM, Microsoft, Honeywell, Google, ETC, the companies considered "Blue Chip" which he constantly talks down about and says are over valued, are evidence of service companies.

They provide services independant of any physical platform. NONE of them require any of their own hardwares to be succesful services. This is also why Apple, is not a service company and not as "bullish" as the rest of them.

As long as TC keeps to the iOS and MacOS tie down of Apple services, this cannot change, especially in the eyes of traders and those who set the valuations of stocks. if Surface lineup fails and stops selling tomorrow, Microsoft's services will not be impacted in any shape or form. They'll just continue doing what they do now and provide those identical services on all platforms (where capable, such as iOS, Google, QNX, etc etc etc).

if iOS sales dried up tomorrow (I don't believe itll happen, but Neither did Blackberry, so stranger things have happened), Apples services do to. They do not have any significant corporate penetration. they're devices / services aren't powering the worlds infrastructure.

if anything, I would back off calling them either services or hardware. I would call them a consumer facing products company.

but if something happens that shakes consumers confidence and iOS device sales tank, so do their services since most of them require their hardware platform to be succesful.

people keep telling him this and he keeps ignoring it saying Apple's a service company. As long as this ecosystem lock down for service exists, they will not be a service company. Even if they do sell services.
the bolded happened to Facebook and we will continue to see the repercussions. I don’t believe Facebook saw this coming. To your point a devaluation of the company’s good will can happen to any company and fast; if Facebook then Microsoft, google even Apple. Ad revenues could dry up for google in a New York minute.

But I do not see Apple opening up their services in a cross platform manner.
 
the bolded happened to Facebook and we will continue to see the repercussions. I don’t believe Facebook saw this coming. To your point a devaluation of the company’s good will can happen to any company and fast; if Facebook then Microsoft, google even Apple. Ad revenues could dry up for google in a New York minute.

But I do not see Apple opening up their services in a cross platform manner.

Me neither as I said, hence why Apple's stock will never get the same overvaluation that the others do in the current view.

as I've mentioned, Stocks aren't about performance today. They're about estimated performance in the future. And Apple's reliance on their hardware has ALWAYS been a hesitation point for investors.

it's also easier to lose hardware sales than it is enterprise service sales. especially since hardware is mostly consumer focused from Apple. I think the biggest mistake they made in the recent past was walking away from the enterprise back end platforms they once had. Microsoft could piss off a LOT of people before enterprises stop using them for their back ends. same cannot be said for you and I and the devices we carry in our pockets
 
Me neither as I said, hence why Apple's stock will never get the same overvaluation that the others do in the current view.

as I've mentioned, Stocks aren't about performance today. They're about estimated performance in the future. And Apple's reliance on their hardware has ALWAYS been a hesitation point for investors.

it's also easier to lose hardware sales than it is enterprise service sales. especially since hardware is mostly consumer focused from Apple. I think the biggest mistake they made in the recent past was walking away from the enterprise back end platforms they once had. Microsoft could piss off a LOT of people before enterprises stop using them for their back ends. same cannot be said for you and I and the devices we carry in our pockets
Microsoft could piss a lot of people off and lose the desktop war, while retaining the server market. Office, and windows aren’t the only game in town; to your point. Microsoft has annoyed me to the extent I can dual boot my computers with Ubuntu.

Whether or not Apple stock is undervalued or overvalued depends on who you talk to. And if Apple annoys me, just like windows/Ubuntu, google/bing, iOS/Android I have choices. Edit: (and am assuming the masses see these choices as well)
 
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Microsoft could piss a lot of people off and lose the desktop war, while retaining the server market. Office, and windows aren’t the only game in town; to your point. Microsoft has annoyed me to the extent I can dual boot my computers with Ubuntu.

Whether or not Apple stock is undervalued or overvalued depends on who you talk to. And if Apple annoys me, just like windows/Ubuntu, google/bing, iOS/Android I have choices.

yup. thats just the point I'm badly making I guess.

the problem with Apple services, especially from a enterprise perspective is that you have to have the Apple hardware for the most part to use them. That tie in is the problem.

it's what has made Apple what it is today for sure, especially with the seemless vertical integration, but at the same time it's also going to be a painpoint going forward if Apple is to migrate to more dominant service company. I should NOT need iOS / MacOS hardware to use iMessage if Apple wants iMessage to be a globally accepted service. The second Apple hardware no longer suits my needs, then I would have to dump iMessage with it (just an example). where with Microsoft, if i'm tied to Skype (urg, what a disaster), I can use ANY hardware.

but this goes back to my point about Tim. A great CEO is going to identify that if they want to become a service first company, he has to break off these "shackles" that were set before him. But he wont. He is continuing to ride the design of Apple that Jobs set, instead of truly paving his own way. He won't break the iOS/MacOS ties, which means he can CLAIM that apples going to be services first company all he wants, it's still not going to happen while he's riding jobs coatail
 
Will there ever be a topic with Tim Cook in the title that isn’t filled with bile?

Not as long as he continues to say stuff publicly that is either disingenuous, or outright ridiculous.

the simple fact of the matter is he's the CEO of one of the worlds leading businesses, and he is a polarizing figure for what he says.

now don't get me wrong, any of the bile thrown at him for his socio-political views can be downright disgusting.

But we're talking about business practices here and the directions / choices he's made regarding Apple. When we're discussing Apple's financials or Apple's economic direction and impact, he's the top dog that has to answer to those questions.

He's not infallible and if you can't take a critical eye to what he says, than maybe you should be looking and asking about your own biases.

instead of discussing the points, you're just coming up with "LEAVE TIMMY ALONE"...

reminds me of

 
Not as long as he continues to say stuff publicly that is either disingenuous, or outright ridiculous.

the simple fact of the matter is he's the CEO of one of the worlds leading businesses, and he is a polarizing figure for what he says.

now don't get me wrong, any of the bile thrown at him for his socio-political views can be downright disgusting.

But we're talking about business practices here and the directions / choices he's made regarding Apple. When we're discussing Apple's financials or Apple's economic direction and impact, he's the top dog that has to answer to those questions.

He's not infallible and if you can't take a critical eye to what he says, than maybe you should be looking and asking about your own biases.

instead of discussing the points, you're just coming up with "LEAVE TIMMY ALONE"...

reminds me of


How am I supposed to debate? Apple has great products, makes amazing money, is more diversified than before, is more innovative in som ways, but the fact that he says things people disagree with is the only thing people talk about.
 
How am I supposed to debate? Apple has great products, makes amazing money, is more diversified than before, is more innovative in som ways, but the fact that he says things people disagree with is the only thing people talk about.

so you never learned how to have a proper conversation /debate with someone?

if I say X and you disagree, don't just say "you're spitting bile". say

"I don't agree with X because Y".

if you can't do that, than do you have anything to actually ad to the conversation other than whining that you don't like the conversation. it seem smore like you have no actually point just jumped in to see your name.

i7 and I might not agree on things, but I absolutely appreciate how he's discussed the matter.
 
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so you never learned how to have a proper conversation /debate with someone?


if I say X and you disagree, don't just say "you're spitting bile". say


"I don't agree with X because Y".


if you can't do that, than do you have anything to actually ad to the conversation other than whining that you don't like the conversation


Alright, I’m going to go through your posts in here and try to figure out if there’s even a proper way to go against them.


A) Tie in will hinder services in the enterprise: Possibly true, but missing the point. Apple wants to be a full stack company, and some businesses (such as IBM) are okay with that. I don’t see this as a huge downside, even if it means their reach won’t be as far as Microsoft’s.


B) iMessage as a sticky platform. If Apple were to move iMessage to Android, for example, they’d do massive damage to their iPhone sales. And it isn’t like iMessage earns them any money. Like it or not, companies have to earn money to continue to function.


C) Apple can’t be a services first company without porting every service ever to every other platform: Not true. Apple just has to port the ones that make sense to them. And if they’re going to be a services first company, they can’t exactly port over things that won’t make money anyway. That’s a quick and easy way to get himself kicked out as CEO.


D) Is Apple Watch even successful: Why is it that everyone loves having this debate and throwing out their own metrics for success? Yes, it has been successful. That’s why they sell more wearables and make more money than anyone else in the market segment. And before you say “those are just sales”? That’s how you figure out if a product is a success.


E) SoC growth is meaningless, obvious, shouldn’t be given as TV success: Then why is it that the growth of the A series chips is outpacing the Snapdragon? And if we are saying it’s just the engineers and he gets no credit, then neither does any CEO because none of them actually design chips. So all those things we attribute to Steve Jobs? Let’s not attribute anything to him according to your logic.
 
Alright, I’m going to go through your posts in here and try to figure out if there’s even a proper way to go against them.


A) Tie in will hinder services in the enterprise: Possibly true, but missing the point. Apple wants to be a full stack company, and some businesses (such as IBM) are okay with that. I don’t see this as a huge downside, even if it means their reach won’t be as far as Microsoft’s.


B) iMessage as a sticky platform. If Apple were to move iMessage to Android, for example, they’d do massive damage to their iPhone sales. And it isn’t like iMessage earns them any money. Like it or not, companies have to earn money to continue to function.


C) Apple can’t be a services first company without porting every service ever to every other platform: Not true. Apple just has to port the ones that make sense to them. And if they’re going to be a services first company, they can’t exactly port over things that won’t make money anyway. That’s a quick and easy way to get himself kicked out as CEO.


D) Is Apple Watch even successful: Why is it that everyone loves having this debate and throwing out their own metrics for success? Yes, it has been successful. That’s why they sell more wearables and make more money than anyone else in the market segment. And before you say “those are just sales”? That’s how you figure out if a product is a success.


E) SoC growth is meaningless, obvious, shouldn’t be given as TV success: Then why is it that the growth of the A series chips is outpacing the Snapdragon? And if we are saying it’s just the engineers and he gets no credit, then neither does any CEO because none of them actually design chips. So all those things we attribute to Steve Jobs? Let’s not attribute anything to him according to your logic.

Thank you, this is actually something we can converse about:

A) Agreed. the point I was trying to make. My comment on this was in counter to another poster who claimed that Apple was a service company now because they claimed it and then he brought up because of stock value. in another post also brought in the stock value proposition and then tried comparing it to MSFT' for example claiming MSFT was overvalued and Apple was undervalued. My point was to showcase WHY that was.

B) yes, iMessage was just an example and not the greatest. I'll admit that

C) Not every service, just the ones people use that would generate revenue. the interesting thing will be which services do get the treatment and which don't. As I said earlier, their attempts with Apple music is a great first step. They have some work to do in this regards (Like removing the reliance on iTunes)

D) sorry, Apple watch is a succesful apple accessory. no doubt. my point was more that it wasn't one of timmies great success stories as it doesn't fundamentally move the needle very much on the overal statements. regardless if the watch was released or not, we're talking about only a couple percentage points of Apples overall revenues. This in no way is meant to destract from the actual devices use and those who do enjoy it. because it's not 10, 50 or 100% revenue for Apple doesn't mean it's a bad prodduct.

E) you're misinterpreting what I said, that maybe on me. the growth of the Ax series of CPU's is not a TIMMY success. it's an Apple ssuccess. But as mentioned, once the project and division was setup to create and advance the CPU, tim cook never has to do anything. it's a given that the next model is faster than the previous. This is fundamentally different than say, the design of the iPhone which Timmy does have measure of control over. in fact, if the next iteration of the Ax CPU isn't faster than the current, there are even bigger problems than whose at the helm.

What im' tryin to essentially say, and maybe badly is Tim cook hasn't done much to Apple's actual products and technological direction to fundamentally have laid any significant mark on Apple's futures. he's been a good business stalwart and has been able to others in some cases do what they need to, but at the same time, he's also not pushed Apple forwards outside of the directions it was already on. STeve Jobs set Apple up for the meteoric rise. Tim Cook has just kept the pace. The concern that led to this conversation was all about point A. what happens should something happen to iPhone sales and they tank? under the current direction, that would have dire consequences for Apple. Tim Cook hasn't really done enough to protect against that. he's starting to NOW, well later than his competition. This is potentially dangerous.

again, i'm also no crystal ball. this is just my analysis and is open to my own errors in judgement, which is why I LIKE having these conversations. I do learn where I err, and also where i'm not clear enough.
 
Thank you, this is actually something we can converse about:

A) Agreed. the point I was trying to make. My comment on this was in counter to another poster who claimed that Apple was a service company now because they claimed it and then he brought up because of stock value. in another post also brought in the stock value proposition and then tried comparing it to MSFT' for example claiming MSFT was overvalued and Apple was undervalued. My point was to showcase WHY that was.

B) yes, iMessage was just an example and not the greatest. I'll admit that

C) Not every service, just the ones people use that would generate revenue. the interesting thing will be which services do get the treatment and which don't. As I said earlier, their attempts with Apple music is a great first step. They have some work to do in this regards (Like removing the reliance on iTunes)

D) sorry, Apple watch is a succesful apple accessory. no doubt. my point was more that it wasn't one of timmies great success stories as it doesn't fundamentally move the needle very much on the overal statements. regardless if the watch was released or not, we're talking about only a couple percentage points of Apples overall revenues. This in no way is meant to destract from the actual devices use and those who do enjoy it. because it's not 10, 50 or 100% revenue for Apple doesn't mean it's a bad prodduct.

E) you're misinterpreting what I said, that maybe on me. the growth of the Ax series of CPU's is not a TIMMY success. it's an Apple ssuccess. But as mentioned, once the project and division was setup to create and advance the CPU, tim cook never has to do anything. it's a given that the next model is faster than the previous. This is fundamentally different than say, the design of the iPhone which Timmy does have measure of control over. in fact, if the next iteration of the Ax CPU isn't faster than the current, there are even bigger problems than whose at the helm.

What im' tryin to essentially say, and maybe badly is Tim cook hasn't done much to Apple's actual products and technological direction to fundamentally have laid any significant mark on Apple's futures. he's been a good business stalwart and has been able to others in some cases do what they need to, but at the same time, he's also not pushed Apple forwards outside of the directions it was already on. STeve Jobs set Apple up for the meteoric rise. Tim Cook has just kept the pace. The concern that led to this conversation was all about point A. what happens should something happen to iPhone sales and they tank? under the current direction, that would have dire consequences for Apple. Tim Cook hasn't really done enough to protect against that. he's starting to NOW, well later than his competition. This is potentially dangerous.

again, i'm also no crystal ball. this is just my analysis and is open to my own errors in judgement, which is why I LIKE having these conversations. I do learn where I err, and also where i'm not clear enough.

And I would argue that Tim Cook has been working to quickly expand the Apple ecosystem as well as bring more and more of the widget into Apple. They’re designing more of the products today than while Steve Jobs was CEO.
 
Thank you, this is actually something we can converse about:

A) Agreed. the point I was trying to make. My comment on this was in counter to another poster who claimed that Apple was a service company now because they claimed it and then he brought up because of stock value. in another post also brought in the stock value proposition and then tried comparing it to MSFT' for example claiming MSFT was overvalued and Apple was undervalued. My point was to showcase WHY that was.

B) yes, iMessage was just an example and not the greatest. I'll admit that

C) Not every service, just the ones people use that would generate revenue. the interesting thing will be which services do get the treatment and which don't. As I said earlier, their attempts with Apple music is a great first step. They have some work to do in this regards (Like removing the reliance on iTunes)

D) sorry, Apple watch is a succesful apple accessory. no doubt. my point was more that it wasn't one of timmies great success stories as it doesn't fundamentally move the needle very much on the overal statements. regardless if the watch was released or not, we're talking about only a couple percentage points of Apples overall revenues. This in no way is meant to destract from the actual devices use and those who do enjoy it. because it's not 10, 50 or 100% revenue for Apple doesn't mean it's a bad prodduct.

E) you're misinterpreting what I said, that maybe on me. the growth of the Ax series of CPU's is not a TIMMY success. it's an Apple ssuccess. But as mentioned, once the project and division was setup to create and advance the CPU, tim cook never has to do anything. it's a given that the next model is faster than the previous. This is fundamentally different than say, the design of the iPhone which Timmy does have measure of control over. in fact, if the next iteration of the Ax CPU isn't faster than the current, there are even bigger problems than whose at the helm.

What im' tryin to essentially say, and maybe badly is Tim cook hasn't done much to Apple's actual products and technological direction to fundamentally have laid any significant mark on Apple's futures. he's been a good business stalwart and has been able to others in some cases do what they need to, but at the same time, he's also not pushed Apple forwards outside of the directions it was already on. STeve Jobs set Apple up for the meteoric rise. Tim Cook has just kept the pace. The concern that led to this conversation was all about point A. what happens should something happen to iPhone sales and they tank? under the current direction, that would have dire consequences for Apple. Tim Cook hasn't really done enough to protect against that. he's starting to NOW, well later than his competition. This is potentially dangerous.

again, i'm also no crystal ball. this is just my analysis and is open to my own errors in judgement, which is why I LIKE having these conversations. I do learn where I err, and also where i'm not clear enough.
Touch ID, Face ID, 64 bit plus others; core building blocks. Move the needle as In an earthquake or light spring shower?

We all are victims of our biases.
 
Seems to me being a "Steve Ballmer" is a good thing. Microsoft is no worse from it, apart from the failed cell phone attempts. Apple will be no worse for it either. It doesn't really matter what one labels Tim Cook as, the reality is he's CEO and will stay until a major catastrophy or he leaves of his own volition.
I would say they're worse from it. Aside from apparently saturating the company with people making bad engineering decisions, they've failed to stay relevant in a booming industry. Their corporate tools like Office and Windows are no longer dominating, their servers marketshare is steadily dying, they have no "cool" image except maybe with gamers, and they've failed to enter several new industries: phones, social networking, and cloud services.

They've only recently been reversing their stance on software and services to be more open, following the trend they tried and failed to fight under Ballmer. Their new CEO is great.
 
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I would say they're worse from it. Aside from apparently saturating the company with people making bad engineering decisions, they've failed to stay relevant in a booming industry. Their corporate tools like Office and Windows are no longer dominating, their servers marketshare is steadily dying, they have no "cool" image except maybe with gamers, and they've failed to enter several new industries: phones, social networking, and cloud services.

They've only recently been reversing their stance on software and services to be more open, following the trend they tried and failed to fight under Ballmer. Their new CEO is great.
I didn't realize their corporate tools are no longer dominating. One could not make that judgement based on my own observations of companies on the fortune list. Yes, they blew the mobile space and as far as cloud services, depends on what you are looking for. Ballmer was good in an era where microsoft needed him, maybe today, his stewardship wouldn't be a good fit. Same can be said for Jobs.
 
Considering Apple’s growth exponentially since Cooks leadership in 2011 and onward that Apple has taken since Job’s passing with the company‘s value and expansion of products/services, what you’re posting is absolutely false.
I'm not so sure it has grown that much.
 
The concern that led to this conversation was all about point A. what happens should something happen to iPhone sales and they tank? under the current direction, that would have dire consequences for Apple. Tim Cook hasn't really done enough to protect against that. he's starting to NOW, well later than his competition. This is potentially dangerous.

iPhone sales don't need to tank for there to be dire consequences for Apple. A simple flattening of iPhone sales (peak smartphone will arrive someday) will have a drastic effect on Apple revenue as well as investor activity. Apple just needs to be slightly off one quarter for the pendulum to start swinging the opposite way. Tim has nothing in the 'pipeline' to address that.
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Seems to me being a "Steve Ballmer" is a good thing. Microsoft is no worse from it, apart from the failed cell phone attempts.

The 20,000+ employees laid off due to Steve Ballmers mismanagement may disagree with you. Not to mention the billions wasted. Their mobile failure was a blunder of epic proportions. I can not fathom how one would look at Steve Ballmers performance and say it was a good thing.
 
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iPhone sales don't need to tank for there to be dire consequences for Apple. A simple flattening of iPhone sales (peak smartphone will arrive someday) will have a drastic effect on Apple revenue as well as investor activity. Apple just needs to be slightly off one quarter for the pendulum to start swinging the opposite way. Tim has nothing in the 'pipeline' to address that.
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The 20,000+ employees laid off due to Steve Ballmers mismanagement may disagree with you. Not to mention the billions wasted. Their mobile failure was a blunder of epic proportions. I can not fathom how one would look at Steve Ballmers performance and say it was a good thing.
One could argue then that Microsoft could be irrelevant if Steve Ballmer had not been ceo, which would have been worse than the layoffs.

However since there haven’t been layoffs at Apple a comparison to Steve Ballmer is not really appropriate.
 
Apple is eating Samsung’s lunch and still leading the industry. Look no further than FaceID, wireless, Watch, and yes, Animoji. Notice how Samsung is “innovating?” Lol...

None of which are industry firsts. Face recognition has been around for years. Wireless... their wireless sucks. They don't even have a god damn charger out yet. The watch... who cares. Animoji... really? I dunno who invented it... it certainly wasn’t Apple, but the knock off from Android is already better.

And just because he continued to increase profits doesn't make him a great leader of the company. He should be working in accounting and monetary planning if that’s all you can til your hat to. Bring on an innovator. And a leader who won't put you to sleep every time he speaks.
 
None of which are industry firsts. Face recognition has been around for years. Wireless... their wireless sucks. They don't even have a god damn charger out yet. The watch... who cares. Animoji... really? I dunno who invented it... it certainly wasn’t Apple, but the knock off from Android is already better.

And just because he continued to increase profits doesn't make him a great leader of the company. He should be working in accounting and monetary planning if that’s all you can til your hat to. Bring on an innovator. And a leader who won't put you to sleep every time he speaks.
I like how you think being first makes any difference whatsoever.

You aren’t paying attention or are too ignorant to give credit to the innovation happening at Apple. Silicon, 3D depth sensing, FaceID, (which Samsung just showed it's significantly behind), Watch, and many of the camera features we see today. Apple’s version of face recognition is more advanced, smaller, more secure, and better implemented than what we’ve seen before.

If you actually think the knock of Animoji is better, you really aren’t paying attention. Samsung’s version doesn’t even do it in real time. Watch the mouths on the creepy Samsung avatars.
 
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