Apple CEO Tim Cook: We Want to Continue Making the Mac Pro in the United States

[Sedulous]

*SIGH* Last post: To 'manufacture' something requires more work and more labor than to 'assemble' it. It's cheaper for Apple (Dell, etc0 to claim they 'manufacture' in America, than it actually is to 'manufacture' in America.

Next didn't fail because it was 'Made in America', it failed because it was an overpriced half-baked idea with poor software support. (It would be like building a sports car where there are no roads. It won't sell well at all... Bye...

According to Oxford English Dictionary:

Manufacture: the business or industry of producing goods in large quantities in factories, etc.
Assembly: the process of putting together the parts of something such as a vehicle or piece of furniture

Take it how you will but I see no difference in these definitions. It is ok to disagree but surely you recognize some justification for my opinion on this matter.

 

[user_xyz]

What we should do:

Ship Tim Apple to Communist China!!

 

[JPack]

But 'Designed in California' is NOT 'Engineered in California'.

Apple has an 'engineering office' in Ireland, and I'm sure they also have an office in China, at least one, probably several.

Apple spent more than half a billion dollars in 2017 to build 2 R&D centers in Shanghai and Shenzhen. Apple has at least 4 R&D centers in China.

People that still think the majority of engineering work is being done in California probably haven't talked to anyone in the industry for decades.

 

[0388631]

Look, SSDs, CPUs, RAM, various other chips are MADE IN THE US.

SSDs?

By whom? The only American manufacturer who makes RAM and SSDs are Micron. And they don't manufacture the bulk of their goods in the US. They're manufactured in Japan and Taiwan.

CPUs? Intel manufacturers current CPUs in the US. However, the R&D behind Core and succeeding uarchs was done by Intel Haifa. Intel has credited their Haifa location for saving Intel many times in the past decade plus.

RAM? Again, Micron, and most of their manufacturing is done overseas. Or do you mean Patriot, Corsair, AData and the like? Nope. These are third parties who white label RAM made by other companies. Fun fact, did you know there's only a handful of PSU manufacturers in the world? Many PSUs you buy today are made by one of those per spec and relabeled or simply sold as relabeled goods.

SSDs? Samsung makes some of the best consumer SSDs on the market. Their controller tech is bar none in the top three. They're a South Korean conglomerate.

LCDs? Again, few companies make LCDs. Many relabel what they purchase through contract. Samsung and LG are the two largest producers of LCDs.

Camera sensors? No American company.
[doublepost=1564816495][/doublepost]

As far as I know Apple has not yet established any research facilities in China but there are reports that this might change... and that may be related to the job postings you quoted.

This came out in 2016.

https://www.cultofmac.com/447227/apple-will-open-first-rd-center-china-later-year/

This came out this year.

https://www.asiaone.com/digital/apple-has-over-1000-people-its-four-china-rd-centres
[doublepost=1564816604][/doublepost]

. All the garbage surface mount passive parts like resistors/caps/inductors/diodes are made in China or Japan.

Those junk surface mount products are what allows almost everything to run. Quality products like a high end motherboard or luxury device like Apple products require quality capacitors, MOSFETs, transistors, etc. And these are made in Japan. Japanese capacitors is a huge advertising claim and one that draws attention from techies who care more about a device than its external looks.
[doublepost=1564816682][/doublepost]

Ok, there are no LCD plants in the US but we are talking about Mac Pro manufacturing

So why bring it up earlier? Apple manufacturing in the US faced supply issues? Did you ever bother reading the countless reports about that or the first-hand reports by people who post on this site who happened to work at those assembly plants?
[doublepost=1564816812][/doublepost]

Atlas shrugged.

Even as a Republican voter I'd never recommend Ayn Rand. Her books are best used to build a fire.

 

[Sedulous]

SSDs?

By whom? The only American manufacturer who makes RAM and SSDs are Micron. And they don't manufacture the bulk of their goods in the US. They're manufactured in Japan and Taiwan.

CPUs? Intel manufacturers current CPUs in the US. However, the R&D behind Core and succeeding uarchs was done by Intel Haifa. Intel has credited their Haifa location for saving Intel many times in the past decade plus.

RAM? Again, Micron, and most of their manufacturing is done overseas. Or do you mean Patriot, Corsair, AData and the like? Nope. These are third parties who white label RAM made by other companies. Fun fact, did you know there's only a handful of PSU manufacturers in the world? Many PSUs you buy today are made by one of those per spec and relabeled or simply sold as relabeled goods.

SSDs? Samsung makes some of the best consumer SSDs on the market. Their controller tech is bar none in the top three. They're a South Korean conglomerate.

LCDs? Again, few companies make LCDs. Many relabel what they purchase through contract. Samsung and LG are the two largest producers of LCDs.

Camera sensors? No American company.
[doublepost=1564816495][/doublepost]
This came out in 2016.

https://www.cultofmac.com/447227/apple-will-open-first-rd-center-china-later-year/

This came out this year.

https://www.asiaone.com/digital/apple-has-over-1000-people-its-four-china-rd-centres
[doublepost=1564816604][/doublepost]
Those junk surface mount products are what allows almost everything to run. Quality products like a high end motherboard or luxury device like Apple products require quality capacitors, MOSFETs, transistors, etc. And these are made in Japan. Japanese capacitors is a huge advertising claim and one that draws attention from techies who care more about a device than its external looks.
[doublepost=1564816682][/doublepost]
So why bring it up earlier? Apple manufacturing in the US faced supply issues? Did you ever bother reading the countless reports about that or the first-hand reports by people who post on this site who happened to work at those assembly plants?
[doublepost=1564816812][/doublepost]
Even as a Republican voter I'd never recommend Ayn Rand. Her books are best used to build a fire.

There is so much out of context here it is difficult to explain. The answers to your questions have already been posted earlier. Twice. I will offer concise rebuttals for your convenience.

First, all I was trying to say is that Apple could continue to build the Mac Pro in US. They currently do. Other companies currently build computers in the US too. The US, as some others put it, “lack the skill” is clearly not strictly true.

The “garbage” passive SMDs could be more easily shipped to the US than it would be to ship more expensive parts like CPUs to Asia. This isn’t a discussion about where Intel’s designs originate... it is about where they make the chips. All of the soldering is done by machines anyway. It is not a question of “skill”.

Samsung does make components in the US as does PNY, micron (I have a stick of RAM right here that says so). I was not the person who brought up LCD plants. Many high value chips (compared to low value SMDs like those mentioned earlier) used on the logic board and elsewhere are also made (and designed) in the US.

Yes, Apple has been working on opening “R&D” facilities in China starting in 2017 but it takes time for those to get up and running. These facilities must be small... almost to the point of being a token offering. Even Apple’s regional facilities in the US dwarf the 250 people per Chinese “R&D” facility and I would bet a lot of those R&D staff spend a lot of time in the US. Apple has tens of thousands of R&D people in the US. There can be no doubt about where Apple’s R&D is done... the answer is etched on the back of every Apple product. In the end, it does not matter. The issue is why should Apple continue to make the Mac Pro in the US.

My opinion is that they should maintain at least some manufacturing/assembly expertise in the US. At least some of the higher value components used in the Mac Pro are made in the US. I mean, the CPU alone is worth more than the rest of the computer. The low cost passive parts could be more easily shipped here and considering the tariffs... probably also cheaper too.

That is all I was trying to say and somehow people get butthurt and took the thread off topic making this confusion. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

[Bug-Creator]

First, all I was trying to say is that Apple could continue to build the Mac Pro in US. They currently do.

A few 100 jobs assembling parts, is that really worth all the fuss?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

@PinkyMacGodess

I'm sorry, could you type that a bit larger? My eyes can't read such a small font.

Translation: If you're point is valid, no need to shout.

Fixed. Apologies for offending you. Adjusting font size is easier than I thought. I post on another website that automatically downsizes the text at the time it's posted. *shrug* I don't usually shout.

This site is made on Drupal, right? Maybe it's a feature? I suggest you take it up with management. Cheers...

 

[v3rlon]

What "valuable components" are made in the U.S.? Open up an HP or Lenovo computer and let me know.

...

Check the processor.
Any USB C connectors likely have US chips as well. So at least those components.

 

[Sedulous]

A few 100 jobs assembling parts, is that really worth all the fuss?

Sure, is a debate that is interesting to me.

 

[Dammit Cubs]

I have no regard for it to be made in USA or China, but prefer it to be made in China. China makes top quality products with a very highly skilled and competent workforce. China has made Tim Cook and shareholders very rich and consumers have benefited with a relatively cheaper product for much better quality.

++ this. While I would love to have this utopian idea that "made in the USA" is the best. The problem is, that model does not exist. Especially when comes to PCB manufacturing and electronics design, Asia has been catching and even exceeding the USA at an alarming rate. They have quality provisions and systems in place for decades to create high quality products. People shouldn't mis-represent a fake item vs one make by a legitimate company, there is a clear system. That combined with their lower salary will always win and once that well runs dry, then another country will pop up to take its place.

At the end of the day, Apple is a business and the game is the maximize profits for their shareholders and the company. They are not the only ones with business in china, everyone can see it's a no brainer from a cost savings point of view.

 

[wellander1]

If apple wants to make products here then WHY are they moving the Mac Pro (2019) to china?
Contradictory to me.

 

[1146331]

If apple wants to make products here then WHY are they moving the Mac Pro (2019) to china?
Contradictory to me.

Because Apple lies to its customers every chance it gets.

They care about the environment! (Makes non-repairable or non-upgradeable products, or incremental upgrades all for profit).
They want to build in the USA! (Manufactures more products in China)
They can't afford to build products in the USA! (Has $245 billion cash on hand)
It's not profitable to build in the USA! (Their products are overpriced anyway and you don't become a trillion dollar company by having morals)
There is nothing wrong with the keyboard (changes design of keyboard, then allegedly goes back to scissor switches on a future unreleased design)
You're holding your phone wrong.

Need I keep going? .

 

[ajfahey]

A few 100 jobs assembling parts, is that really worth all the fuss?

Yes. Assume we go to war. Where do you think we will get our components and where do you think we will assemble them? How long do you think it will take to develop in-country fabrication and assembly capability if we have to manufacture high tech electronics here either because we are at war with who is producing it now or we are embargoed from importing it?

The purpose of the tariff is not just to move jobs back to the US. It’s also to incentivize moving critical war production capability back on shore. Wars are won and lost on the ability to produce and the logistics of resupply. Right now, much of our war material needs are off shore. That’s suicidal.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Right now, much of our war material needs are off shore. That’s suicidal.

MacPro are essential for the US military???

Now we have to make sure they will never ever be made in the US again!!

 

[thevault]

Yep, Tim Crook lying about "Continue Making the Mac Pro in the United States".

U.S. trade regulators approve some Apple tariff exemptions amid broader reprieve

U.S. trade regulators on Friday approved 10 out of 15 requests for tariff exempt...

www.reuters.com

Apple CEO Tim Cook: We Want to Continue Making the Mac Pro in the United States

During today's earnings call covering the third quarter of 2019, Apple CEO Tim Cook said that Apple wants to continue making the Mac Pro in the...

www.macrumors.com

 

[thevault]

MacPro are essential for the US military???

Now we have to make sure they will never ever be made in the US again!!

Living in Utopia .....

 

[thevault]

SSDs?

By whom? The only American manufacturer who makes RAM and SSDs are Micron. And they don't manufacture the bulk of their goods in the US. They're manufactured in Japan and Taiwan.

CPUs? Intel manufacturers current CPUs in the US. However, the R&D behind Core and succeeding uarchs was done by Intel Haifa. Intel has credited their Haifa location for saving Intel many times in the past decade plus.

RAM? Again, Micron, and most of their manufacturing is done overseas. Or do you mean Patriot, Corsair, AData and the like? Nope. These are third parties who white label RAM made by other companies. Fun fact, did you know there's only a handful of PSU manufacturers in the world? Many PSUs you buy today are made by one of those per spec and relabeled or simply sold as relabeled goods.

SSDs? Samsung makes some of the best consumer SSDs on the market. Their controller tech is bar none in the top three. They're a South Korean conglomerate.

LCDs? Again, few companies make LCDs. Many relabel what they purchase through contract. Samsung and LG are the two largest producers of LCDs.

Camera sensors? No American company.
[doublepost=1564816495][/doublepost]
This came out in 2016.

https://www.cultofmac.com/447227/apple-will-open-first-rd-center-china-later-year/

This came out this year.

https://www.asiaone.com/digital/apple-has-over-1000-people-its-four-china-rd-centres
[doublepost=1564816604][/doublepost]
Those junk surface mount products are what allows almost everything to run. Quality products like a high end motherboard or luxury device like Apple products require quality capacitors, MOSFETs, transistors, etc. And these are made in Japan. Japanese capacitors is a huge advertising claim and one that draws attention from techies who care more about a device than its external looks.
[doublepost=1564816682][/doublepost]
So why bring it up earlier? Apple manufacturing in the US faced supply issues? Did you ever bother reading the countless reports about that or the first-hand reports by people who post on this site who happened to work at those assembly plants?
[doublepost=1564816812][/doublepost]
Even as a Republican voter I'd never recommend Ayn Rand. Her books are best used to build a fire.

"Republican".......... Lol....Sure...

 

[1146331]

MacPro are essential for the US military???

Now we have to make sure they will never ever be made in the US again!!

Generals need their iPhones!

The troops... we just need pr0n and booz!
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"Republican".......... Lol....Sure...

To liberals, a Republican is anybody that doesn't believe EVERY single thing they believe. Therefore, there are some Republican Socialists in their eyes.

 

[0388631]

"Republican".......... Lol....Sure...

To liberals, a Republican is anybody that doesn't believe EVERY single thing they believe. Therefore, there are some Republican Socialists in their eyes.

Voted Republican for over 30 years. Donated thousands to Republicans over that time. How long have you two been voting Republican? I'd love to learn more about my own voting habits from two complete strangers who saw reason to comment on a month plus old posting nothing of value.

 

[Phil77354]

... However between actually repairing Apple products at the component level and having basic internet search capacity, I can be sure that I am more informed than most. Micron RAM and SSDs, PNY RAM and SSDs, Samsung NAND, etc etc all made in the US....

I just purchased and installed two 8GB PNY RAM upgrades for my iMac, purchased them from Best Buy. The packaging says they are manufactured in Taiwan.

Which doesn't bother me a bit although of course I would like to see Made in the US if that is an option.

 

[curtvaughan]

I just purchased and installed two 8GB PNY RAM upgrades for my iMac, purchased them from Best Buy. The packaging says they are manufactured in Taiwan.

Which doesn't bother me a bit although of course I would like to see Made in the US if that is an option.

Might be interesting to see how this topic of offshoring most manufacturing to Asia, and especially China, with the spread of coronavirus. It's only been a thing for about 7 weeks and there's already talk of global economic slowdowns. Shows one can never predict future trends with anything near certainty.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

To liberals, a Republican is anybody that doesn't believe EVERY single thing they believe. Therefore, there are some Republican Socialists in their eyes.

Republicans are the probably the best socialists. Think about it: They love to privatize the profits, and socialize the costs of almost everything they do. The last round of tax cuts is a shining example. The rich pay less, and the middle class gets stuck with service cuts, and tax hikes. Also millions of jobs were shipped to China, and elsewhere, and targeted tax cuts rewarded those that sent them away. Tangent: the stock market is as great of an indication of the strength of the American Economy as seeing a snowflake in the sky proves climate change isn't happening. *shrug* It's too late to change it now.

 

[1146331]

Republicans are the probably the best socialists. Think about it: They love to privatize the profits, and socialize the costs of almost everything they do. The last round of tax cuts is a shining example. The rich pay less, and the middle class gets stuck with service cuts, and tax hikes. Also millions of jobs were shipped to China, and elsewhere, and targeted tax cuts rewarded those that sent them away. Tangent: the stock market is as great of an indication of the strength of the American Economy as seeing a snowflake in the sky proves climate change isn't happening. *shrug* It's too late to change it now.

Most of these tech companies that are exporting all the jobs are liberal. I don't see them complaining.

 

[Glockworkorange]

So you are willing to pay more in taxes to support the 'new slave labor' in America? I mean, you should be used to paying for Walmart worker healthcare by now, so maybe paying more taxes to support your last paragraph is fine with you?

I'd rather have all workers around the world be required to be paid the same in equivalent US money for where they are located, and American corporations have to follow the same environmental regulations they do here.

I find the idea that America has to be brought down to third world status repugnant, and offensive. Are you ready for a 'third world America'? No paved roads, no public utilities, no healthcare? I'm not. And this is all fueled by people trying to get as much money for themselves, for the least taxes, as they can.

THEY won't support this country, and refuse to consider doing it. Who supports America if the rich, who have raped, it won't?

China executes union organizers. That's why they got the manufacturing heart of this country.

Slave labor in America?

You know so little about economics (and perhaps history) that I am embarrassed for you.

When people are having these discussions at parties or whatever, do yourself a favor and don't say anything.
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Republicans are the probably the best socialists. Think about it: They love to privatize the profits, and socialize the costs of almost everything they do. The last round of tax cuts is a shining example. The rich pay less, and the middle class gets stuck with service cuts, and tax hikes. Also millions of jobs were shipped to China, and elsewhere, and targeted tax cuts rewarded those that sent them away. Tangent: the stock market is as great of an indication of the strength of the American Economy as seeing a snowflake in the sky proves climate change isn't happening. *shrug* It's too late to change it now.

"They love to privatize the profits"

What does this even mean? What are you talking about? Privatizing salaries? What?

The rich pay the vast majority of taxes in this country while the poor pay very little.

My suggestion is for every millionaire and billionaire to leave the country---you're clearly not welcomed here by many.

Then I wonder who will pay for PinkyMacGodess' goodies and toys (read: entitlements).

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Slave labor in America?

You know so little about economics (and perhaps history) that I am embarrassed for you.

When people are having these discussions at parties or whatever, do yourself a favor and don't say anything.
[automerge]1582061152[/automerge]

"They love to privatize the profits"

What does this even mean? What are you talking about? Privatizing salaries? What?

The rich pay the vast majority of taxes in this country while the poor pay very little.

My suggestion is for every millionaire and billionaire to leave the country---you're clearly not welcomed here by many.

Then I wonder who will pay for PinkyMacGodess' goodies and toys (read: entitlements).

We 'made' enough on the GW Bush tax cuts to buy a full size agriculture tractor, and paid cash. $60,000. *boom* How much did you make? The Trump tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the upper class.

The tax cuts are the most regressive part of the 'economic agenda' that there is right now, and people think that the economy is doing great.

All those jobs sent overseas didn't have to be sent there. They were sent there to kill unions, and provide a way for the 'rich' to get their tax cuts and 'hide' the reason... But anyway... The economy is set for a huge fall. Hope you can hang on.