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Again, why does anyone actually think that this is a technical glitch or typographic error?*

As it is, I wouldn't be surprised if Beijing isn't also blocking environmental websites -- the PRC is tearing itself apart environmentally and socially and it's trying to take the world with it.

China's indigenous automotive industry (in which Jeep of China is one of the most popular brands) has emission standards that lag about 15 years behind the rest of the world (currently, Chinese auto makers must meet the obsolete "Euro 2" standard (Euro 4 kicks in next year in the EU), a regulation just enacted by the government). SUVs are becoming increasingly popular and it is expected that within 3-5 years, the Chinese SUV market will be larger than the American market. This, of course, is unusual, given that the average car sells for 10 times the average annual wage (vs. US figures where the average auto is priced at 70-85% of the target groups average annual income). This continues to expand the Chinese gap between the emerging upper-middle consumer class and the poor, uneducated, agrarian-environment majority.

As it is, China already burns more coal than any other nation and is the largest producer of greenhouse gases in the world. Furthermore, since the population is becoming increasingly urban and the ground in central and eastern China is particularly ill-suited to farming, the PRC has one of the highest rates of deforestation and is suffering severe topsoil loss and floods exacerbated by the use of mountainsides as farmland.

But Beijing's government is trying to put on a good face, not only for its population, but for the rest of the world - through such measures as rushing the 3 Gorges Dam, which some studies indicate will cause a great deal of long-term environmental damage on the rivers and newly-enacted fines intended to discourage the practice of public urination and defecation common not only in rural areas, but urban centers, as well. (They're concerned that the rest of the world would be aghast if such things happened while visitors were attending the 2008 Summer Games in Beijing.)

Of course, the ugly truth is that the PRC is as corrupt and repressive as ever, even moreso since the power-hungry CPC has also found material wealth by embracing an open-market and laissez-faire economy (versus the doomed command economy which undermined the Soviet Union in the late 1970s and early-to-mid-1980s.)

About the only nation that could be considered more repressive and paranoid about outside influence is the DPRK (North Korea), which has about 100 approved internet users (entirely within the power elite) and manufactures specialized televisions and radios that only receive uncommon frequencies which Pyonyang uses to ensure that the TVs and radios are only receiving official broadcasts. (Most North Koreans are so disconnected from the outside world that they believe that Kim Il Sung, "Great Leader" invented electricity, the internal combustion engine, the airplane and television and that North Korea is so wonderful compared to the rest of the world, that everyone, especially Americans, would do anything to take over that little patch of heaven. They've also been led to believe that Kim Jong Il, "Dear Leader" was prophetically born atop Mount Paektu, rather than in a Soviet Gulag - which wouldn't have been such an emphatic portent of his "eventual" role as world leader and that the majority of the people who died in the recent train explosion died in valiant attempts at saving pictures of him.)

So, yeah, I guess the Mainland Chinese people do have it pretty good... compared to the wonderland that is the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea.

* Note: A recent series of "typographic errors" found within official statements by the Government of Nigeria indicated that the Governments of Pakistan and North Korea were providing technical and material assistance in Nigeria's new effort at developing and manufacturing nuclear weapons. (The foreign and defense ministries both later retracted the statements, owing them to mis-typed information.)
 
greenmonsterman said:
I just found out there actually is a "Great firewall of china"... I'm so disappointed that it wasn't just a joke. :(

Oh well, you do know that there is one for the US of A also? And all other countries...
And btw: BB is watching you... ;)
 
mustang_dvs said:
While the Government has become much more savvy about how it restricts individual freedoms (expression, in particular) since the 1989 Tiananmen democracy protests, it has also become much more effective in its "fight" against dissenting opinions. No longer does the government arrest en masse, instead, they make surgical arrests and detentions. Internet access is much more widespread in urban areas, but the use and navigation is monitored and restricted. Many iconic American websites are blocked, as are British and a majority of western news sites are blocked.

mmm... sounds like the old censorship is still there, yes... let me see, some other big issues this year about censorship... ahh.. yes, SUPERBOWL :D oh, yes.. and the ingenious Paul Bremer - introducing democracy by banning newspapers... a wonderful concept LOL

Ahh.. behold the delirious' right to free speech - and the ability to look for other reasons than the slavery that comes of history ;)
 
About China

qubex said:
I live in China and I can confirm that Apple.com has been blocked for the past three weeks or so.

It isn't a glitch - there is definitely some form of logic to what sites are blocked, though it is often haphazard. For example, cnn.com has always been available since I arrived in China back in November, but news.bbc.com has always been blocked...

Actually I'm relieved to see this report - sometimes I'm not sure whether it's problems with my internet connection (and/or DNS server) or Chinese "Great Bamboo Firewall of China" policy decisions. The former is easier to overcome (fix it), but it also requires activity on my part.

[sarcasm] I think this could be partially due to some people updating to the latest version of Airport [/sarcasm]

You bring up another point of sarcasm: CNN.

If the letters CNN mean anything it is: Communist News Network . The reason you don't get the BBC News is because occasionally they will have a story that's reported with some thought and insight based on reality or not politically motivated. (Though rarely)
 
mustang_dvs said:
As it is, China already burns more coal than any other nation and is the largest producer of greenhouse gases in the world. Furthermore, since the population is becoming increasingly urban and the ground in central and eastern China is particularly ill-suited to farming, the PRC has one of the highest rates of deforestation and is suffering severe topsoil loss and floods exacerbated by the use of mountainsides as farmland.
Well the USA isn't exactly the "good Guy" when it comes to GHG emissions, either, George Bush and his mates in the Oil business seem to have scant regard for the arguments for reducing GHG emissions. Let alone their environmental (lack of) policy in areas like Alaska, etc.
INteresting graphs on a "by country" comparison can be found here.

http://www.grida.no/db/maps/collection/climate6/

Also interesting to note that if these figures are correct, that the UK is almost down to the levels agreed on by the Kyoto meeting. Wheras the US...

SO, when in the next few decades the Gulf Stream conveyor switches off as a result of global warming, and Britain ends up with the same climate as Alaska, we'll know who to blame, then!
 
Mustang_dvs, you have way too much time. Or you are obssessed driven by a complex.
 
Shagrat said:
SO, when in the next few decades the Gulf Stream conveyor switches off as a result of global warming, and Britain ends up with the same climate as Alaska, we'll know who to blame, then!

I thought that was disproved and that we get most of our warmth from air currents as opposed to sea currents. We do get lots form sea currents and it is the reason why our summers are relatively mild and winters are not too cold, I think we will have very hot summers and very cold winters if the gulf stream goes to crap.
 
amnesiac1984 said:
I thought that was disproved and that we get most of our warmth from air currents as opposed to sea currents. We do get lots form sea currents and it is the reason why our summers are relatively mild and winters are not too cold, I think we will have very hot summers and very cold winters if the gulf stream goes to crap.

Apparently not. It would seem that past events which have turned of the gulf stream have coincided with periods of severe drought in the tropics and severe cooling in northern europe. Plus the winds pick up or lose most of their heat from the sea as they approach, in our part of the world, the Atlantic, or North sea.
One of the most worrying measurements that has been recently discovered is the sudden decrease in salinity of the area north of Greenland where the conveyor dives down to the sea floor, thus constituting the "return leg" of the gulf stream. This is in part due to the ice cap on Greenland itself thinning at a markedly increased rate, compared to only 15 years ago. The glaciers there have increased their speed by 150% during this time. So the fresh water run-off (thus the decease in salinity in the area) is interfering with the return flow. Also, the big russian and siberian rivers which also contribute to the increase in fresh water in this area of the sea just compound the problem. All directly linked to a warmer climate.
What could happen is that the Titanic would be unlikely to get far from Southampton without encountering icebergs, if it were to be launched in the next 50 years. Possibly 20.
 
Apple.com blocked in China

I live in Shanghai & have noticed the same for 3 weeks. No conspiracy running through my mind; it's just something you come to expect. For weeks I could not gain access to several certification agencies that are big for business over here & now they are all open. Even my favorite porno sites are back!
 
Trailers

No-one's mentioned this but there are a whole lot of movie trailers at apple.com/trailers that maybe the Chinese government don't want their citizens to see.

And the person *technically* in China? Please say either Hong Kong or Taiwan - it's misleading to say otherwise and there's no great firewall in either of those mini-states.
 
herrmill said:
I live in Shanghai & have noticed the same for 3 weeks. No conspiracy running through my mind; it's just something you come to expect. For weeks I could not gain access to several certification agencies that are big for business over here & now they are all open.
Yeah, I know what you mean - it's just normal around here, too. I remember back in December the whole Sourceforge website was unavailable, so not having access to www.apple.com is rather minor.

I don't know if you have noticed, but using Pod2Go I somehow get all the BBC news right on my iPod, even though I can't access BCC News over the web. Weird. Very, very weird. But useful!

Irafas said:
And the person *technically* in China? Please say either Hong Kong or Taiwan - it's misleading to say otherwise and there's no great firewall in either of those mini-states.
I live in Guangzhou by the way - as my location identifier notes - that is within the Mainland. Not Hong Kong, not Taiwan, and not even Macau. The Real Deal.
 
People like dictators

Makosuke said:
Truth is, with the waves washing back and forth between freedom and crackdown gradually wearing away at the power of the state, it just doesn't seem like this anomaly in Chinese history is going to last much longer, and it might not even take a bloody revolution to get it there.

Actually, studies of the human condition have shown that throughout history the vast majority of humans have lived under the rule of some type of autocracy. Democracy is not a new concept, nor does it require high technology, and yet very few societies have adopted this form of government. Even today, over half the world's population live in states ruled by authoritarian leaders who maintain their power through force and intimidation.

This observation has led many reputable scholars to conclude that subjugation is a default human preference. That we prefer to live under the protection and guidance, but also whimsy and cruelty, of singularly strong individuals. This is not to say people dislike choice, simply that we naturally abhor the responsibility that comes with it and prefer to pass it on to those relatively "anomalous" individuals who enjoy wielding power.

Even in a supposedly democratic nation such as the United States you can see evidence of how the population readily offers up their freedoms on a platter to appease a highly fallible leader simple because he scolds those who dissent. Bad journalists! Knock me in your article and I won’t let you on my plane. Bad citizen! Speaking out against me and my cronies during a time of war is unpatriotic!

So, no, the current Chinese administration is not an anomaly. In fact, the emperors of yore yield equally broad powers, and their citizens didn’t hold the modern tools of communication at their fingertips. I certainly hope China finds it way to elected leadership and full democracy but I’m not holding by breath. And if, and when, it comes… it will be as much a result of outside influence from the bigger kids in the nation block… like the US… as it is because of spontaneous internal changes of policy.

Feudalism continues to persist in the modern world. The only thing that has changed is the scope. Today, it is larger than ever. Powerful global hegemonies push around smaller states to serve their own interests. I believe the US has shown time and again that it is willing to kill, destroy, backstab, colonize, mold and otherwise dominate any entity that threatens the status quo power distribution.
 
greenmonsterman said:
I just found out there actually is a "Great firewall of china"... I'm so disappointed that it wasn't just a joke.

iMan said:
Oh well, you do know that there is one for the US of A also? And all other countries...
And btw: BB is watching you... ;)

Damn. My calendar is 20 years fast... I didn't realize it was 1984.
 
centauratlas said:
That is what you get with a socialist/totalitarian state. It sucks for Apple, but it sucks even more for the people who are controlled by their government.
And what do you get for living in the land of the "free"..? Kids running around playing war in the schoolyard with real guns...
 
Founder

Side note: iTunes is now getting pre-installed on PCs by China's largest supplier, Founder.
 
adzoox said:
But stupid parents are found worldwide
Stupid parents dont give birth to killers, it's the envirement, the influens, the life they grow up in that deside who they will be.
 
It's the combination of unsound environment and influences (media, etc), coupled with an inadequate level of education - which stems at least partly from the media aspect.

This is totally off-topic, but has anybody here ever read Amusing Ourselves to Death? It's a study of the influence of TV on political and social life in the USA. It was published way back in the early 1980s (remember that? the Regan years?) but it has turned out to be highly prophetic. I really suggest you go and read it if you have the chance.
 
Responding to 3 separate people here, but I’m just running it together.

That is what you get with a socialist/totalitarian state. It sucks for Apple, but it sucks even more for the people who are controlled by their government.

China is neither a Socialist, nor Communist state. Just saying they are doesn’t make it so. They’re totalitarian, period.

And I take exception to those people who make the "amusing" inference that somehow what is going on in the U.S. is worse.

Obviously what’s happening in the United States is nothing compared to China (and it’s in very poor taste IMO for anyone to say that), but what’s happening in the U.S. is still inexcusable.

No, I'm not happy with the practices of the current, very secretive and stubborn administration, but we have it 10,000 times better here than every single person in China -- and come November, we at least get the choice to throw these clowns out on their arses

Do we? We didn’t vote Bush in. He won neither the popular, nor (more to the point) electoral vote, and yet he’s acting as President. The really scary thing is that the election was as close as it was. In a well educated society, Bush would have received almost no votes at all (maybe his close family and friends, and the super-rich, but that’s it). The so-called “conservatives” have done a brilliant job manipulating the media and the populace to their ends.

Actually, studies of the human condition have shown that throughout history the vast majority of humans have lived under the rule of some type of autocracy. Democracy is not a new concept, nor does it require high technology, and yet very few societies have adopted this form of government. Even today, over half the world's population live in states ruled by authoritarian leaders who maintain their power through force and intimidation.

This observation has led many reputable scholars to conclude that subjugation is a default human preference. That we prefer to live under the protection and guidance, but also whimsy and cruelty, of singularly strong individuals. This is not to say people dislike choice, simply that we naturally abhor the responsibility that comes with it and prefer to pass it on to those relatively "anomalous" individuals who enjoy wielding power.

That’s such a croc. Democracies require a well educated populace, that’s both knowledgeable and capable of THOUGHT. That’s difficult to achieve, and the natural tendency is for those in power to want to remain in power, gather more power, etc.

Just because most people have lived under totalitarian states doesn’t mean a person fully educated about the possibilities would willingly choose that.

Even in a supposedly democratic nation such as the United States you can see evidence of how the population readily offers up their freedoms on a platter to appease a highly fallible leader simple because he scolds those who dissent. Bad journalists! Knock me in your article and I won’t let you on my plane. Bad citizen! Speaking out against me and my cronies during a time of war is unpatriotic!

And it’s sickening, isn’t it. Sometimes I almost think we deserve Bush.

Going even further off topic, this thread shows how important it is to keep modern technologies and communications OPEN. Yet another reason we don’t want all this DRM crap. People NEED information and communication to help them get a real idea of what’s going on in the world, and challenge it.

Feudalism continues to persist in the modern world. The only thing that has changed is the scope. Today, it is larger than ever. Powerful global hegemonies push around smaller states to serve their own interests. I believe the US has shown time and again that it is willing to kill, destroy, backstab, colonize, mold and otherwise dominate any entity that threatens the status quo power distribution.

Yup. Also completely disgusting.

“If the provisional government asks us to leave we will leave," Bremer said, referring to an Iraqi administration due to take power June 30. "I don't think that will happen, but obviously we don't stay in countries where we're not welcome." :D
 
Puppies said:
“If the provisional government asks us to leave we will leave," Bremer said, referring to an Iraqi administration due to take power June 30. "I don't think that will happen, but obviously we don't stay in countries where we're not welcome." :D
You mean where there's no oil.
I wish all americans know what people around the world think of when they hear the letters USA. I can tell you one thing, its nothing close to freedom!

USA will not be the "world leader" for much longer if they keep on acting like they do!

God bless THE WORLD
 
All of this speculation is pretty funny. You guys will grasp at just about any straw to find a reason for something that happens in the world of Apple.

The reason apple.com is blocked in China is because of their hosting of "Grass Born to be Stepped On: Women's Rights in China," the first-place winning entry in the iLife Educator Awards competition this year. The ILife awards are not on apple.com.cn, therefore that's why that site is not blocked. Look at the information that they are allowing and what they're not. It's easy to discern.

http://www.apple.com/education/ilifeawards/project_grassborn.html
 
Political Risk

I am constantly amazed by companies that ignore or accept the political risk of doing business in China. Apple could build computers just as cheaply in India, Thailand or the Philippines without the political risks to business involved with dealing with a totalitarian government. If the Chinese government interferes with your business, you lose money. It doesn't make sense to ignore the large and rapidly growing Chinese market but you can reduce risk and improve productivity by concentrating on other parts of Asia and transporting products to China by truck, train, or ship.
 
Demon said:
strange... because technically, i am living in China...

What do you mean, "technically"? Are you living in Taiwan or something (which technically has nothing to do with this).
 
micvog said:
Wasn't Apple, the computer company, in some kind of legal fight with Apple, a Chinese clothing manufacturer, over who had the legal right to the name "Apple"? If so, I wonder if this is China taking sides?

My thinking too - the timing is to cooincidental. The Apple t-shirt company probably got an injunction against the website or something equivalent in their whacked legal system. Y'know, guilty until proven innocent and all.

It's amazing that such an oppressed people can turn out such damn good food. Damnit, now I need to go get some dimsum. Thanks guys.
 
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