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MacRumors

macrumors bot
Apr 12, 2001
55,054
17,429
Apple has issued a statement in response to the Real announcement that they would be offering reverse-engineered iPod-compatible songs. Apple states:

We are stunned that RealNetworks has adopted the tactics and ethics of a hacker to break into the iPod and we are investigating the implications of its actions under the DMCA and other laws

Apple also warns that the song compatibility may be broken in the future.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,909
41
Andover, MA
Yeah, it was inevitable. I'm still on the fence as to whether I'm in favor of letting the iPods play other vendor's music (like Real's). On the one hand, it's cool to be able to play whatever you want. On the other, it turns the iPod into just another player, and it might lead to other issues as 3rd party stuff ceases to work with each iPod upgrade. Plus, it makes DRM harder, which makes it harder for Apple to get iTMS titles.
 

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
Abstract said:
I don't really care for any corporation, but since Real is so obviously in the wrong, I hope they get their ass handed to them in court.

If they were in the wrong, Apple would have instead today announced a lawsuit. At this point, Apple probably can't find anything notably wrong with their actions, and therein only made this statement.

But I don't know the details of Real's process, so we'll just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.
 

scottwat

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2003
118
0
Ohio USA
The giant is awaken

The big angry apple giant bears its teeth and crushes the puny RealNetworks. Maybe now everyone will move from real to quicktime streaming!!!
 

davecuse

macrumors 6502
Feb 20, 2004
419
0
NYC
I think Apple is clearly in the right here. I'm really a little shocked that Real would release something like this without first seeking some type of approval from Apple. Another brilliant business move from the notorious Real.
 

fartheststar

macrumors 6502a
Dec 29, 2003
504
2
Toronto
greenmonsterman said:
Sue them!
Take them out apple!

No one needs Real Player anyway

Desparate times call for desparate measures. (In case you're wondering, referring to Real, not Apple.) This is absolutely incredible.

I can see how Real would like to sell songs for the iPod, and I can see a time when it will be acceptable that you could buy songs from many online music stores and play them on your iPod (not necessarily in "any" format - eg: WMA) Fact of the matter is is that you need Apple's buy in... not just "reverse engineering" what they've done. That's nuts.
 

scottwat

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2003
118
0
Ohio USA
rice_web said:
If they were in the wrong, Apple would have instead today announced a lawsuit. At this point, Apple probably can't find anything notably wrong with their actions, and therein only made this statement.

But I don't know the details of Real's process, so we'll just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

If the movie industry could sue over the deCSS stuff then this would be a huge case. Actually it's kind of scary for developers. So it is sort of bitter sweet.
 

Metatron

macrumors 6502
Jul 2, 2002
382
79
:( ......up yours Real!!!!

You bastards!!! The fact that it is a closed system is what makes the iPod the best there is.

Sue'em!!!!
 
Predictable...

I mean, come on, Apple effectively got the PlayFair guys moving around. Of course Apple would use the DMCA against Real. Real was never licensed to use Apple's DRM technology.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Apple the only company using Apple's DRM? There is a problem with this, Apple has a monopoly on DRM for iPod; thus effectively locking you to use iTunes Music Store.

I'm not a lawyer, but could this be used against Apple if they do go to court?
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,174
2,993
davecuse said:
I think Apple is clearly in the right here. I'm really a little shocked that Real would release something like this without first seeking some type of approval from Apple. Another brilliant business move from the notorious Real.

If I remember correctly, Real's boss kindly asked Steve Jobs about access to the iPod and even went public went he did not even get an answer. But Apple just ignored him.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,909
41
Andover, MA
MacCoaster said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Apple the only company using Apple's DRM? There is a problem with this, Apple has a monopoly on DRM for iPod; thus effectively locking you to use iTunes Music Store.

I'm not a lawyer, but could this be used against Apple if they do go to court?

I'd think it'd be legally equivalent to not being able to buy PS2 games that weren't licensed by Sony, etc. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on music, just control of access to an Apple product, the iPod.
 

dizastor

macrumors 6502a
Dec 27, 2001
619
15
Los Angeles
In other news Microsoft announced today that after a year of hard work and "the Longhorn smokescreen" they will be releasing Mac OSX Panther for windows instead. Codenamed Windows OSXP Panther, Microsoft admits to following in the footsteps of RealNetworks who recently made their way onto Apple's iPod using reverse engineering. "We knew Longhorn was sh*t, so we bought a copy of OSX reverse engineered it and recompiled it to run on windows, we think our customers will be very pleased" Microsoft also admits adding system instability, more frequent kernel panics, and a user favorite, the blue screen of death.

Steve Jobs was unavailable for comment since he had just sh@t on himself.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,909
41
Andover, MA
fartheststar said:
Desparate times call for desparate measures. (In case you're wondering, referring to Real, not Apple.) This is absolutely incredible.

I can see how Real would like to sell songs for the iPod, and I can see a time when it will be acceptable that you could buy songs from many online music stores and play them on your iPod (not necessarily in "any" format - eg: WMA) Fact of the matter is is that you need Apple's buy in... not just "reverse engineering" what they've done. That's nuts.

As you say, they're desperate, and that's dangerous - look at SCO.

However, you'd think they'd at least be smart enough to have a hack released anonymously instead of being so blatant about it.

Among other things, Apple's DRM strategy is weakened by this, which reduces iTMS song licensing (probably - labels would get scared), which would be bad for us. So I hope it gets crushed soon.
 

Zaty

macrumors 65816
Mar 14, 2004
1,215
2
Switzerland
I only hope Real doesn't get away with it. It would be horrible if you could legally hack and copy copy right-protected software by reverse-engineering it.
 

whooleytoo

macrumors 604
Aug 2, 2002
6,601
694
Cork, Ireland.
Yeah.. death to Real! :eek:

How dare they threaten to release software for the Mac, that would let us (and PC users) have a greater choice of music services for our iPods.

WE WANT LESS CHOICE, NOT MORE!

Next week: Death to Adobe, Quark, Microsoft, Id, Blizzard...

</sarcasm>
 

jouster

macrumors 65816
Jan 21, 2002
1,245
276
Connecticut
Apple should stop worrying about this.

Legal action throughout most of personal computing's history would not favor Apple. From the very first time a company produced Altair compatible boards, judges have looked unfavourably on claims of intellectual theft. Making something compatible does not necessarily mean making it identical.

Apple should rather be pleased that even more people will now have a reason to buy an iPod. After all, it's well known that they do not make a profit on iTMS sales, and isn't the iTMS only around to drive iPod sales?

And it isn't like Apple never reverse-engineered anything either.

zaty said:
...It would be horrible if you could legally hack and copy right-protected software by reverse-engineering it.

How true, as Xerox discovered when Apple copied the GUI from them.
 

mhouse

macrumors member
Dec 27, 2003
97
0
North Carolina
The Deal

manu chao said:
If I remember correctly, Real's boss kindly asked Steve Jobs about access to the iPod and even went public went he did not even get an answer. But Apple just ignored him.

No, apparently you don't remember correctly. Glaser sent an email and when it went unanswered, he publicly threatened Apple by saying Real would be forced to moved to Microsoft-based DRM is Apple didn't "play ball." Not the way to do business.

I hope Apple reduces them to s smoldering heap.
 

Laslo Panaflex

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2003
1,291
0
Tokyo
Macrumors said:
Apple also warns that the song compatibility may be broken in the future.

Think of it, the day Real announces that they offer iPod compatible songs, Apple releases an iPod software update that block the Real songs from being played on the iPod. That would be great, becuase I mean, who is really going to buy anything from Real, PC user or otherwise.
 

Shaun.P

macrumors 68000
Jul 14, 2003
1,601
23
Omicron Persei 8
Who do they think they are?!

Who do Real think they are? The "Oh, we never got Apple's approval, so we did it anyway!" tactic just won't work in court. Your right, no-one needs RealPlayer. Basically, Apple IS the music industry, and they are not going to let any one get in their way.
 
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