Apple Comments on Real

[shamino]

Don't know the technicalities of the case and don't really care. What i do know is that my past experience of real isn't impressive, i'd rather not have them: 1) steal some of iTunes' customers and 2) bugger up my new iPod with dodgy AAC music files.

Which, of course, begs the question that all of us (who are so vocal on this subject) should be asking ourselves: What do you want?

And it's not an easy answer.

On the one hand, I'd like the iPod to be wide open and compaible with a wide variety of CODECs and DRM schemes, so that I can purchase music from everybody. As others have said, you'd have to be crazy to want to restrict yourself to exactly one DRM-restricted download site. (Although I'd much rather use non-DRM sites, which already work with an iPod.)

But I despise Real as a corporation and would love it if they went completely bankrupt tomorrow, with their executive officers eating out of trash cans. I developed this attitude when RealPlayer version 5 gave way to 6, 7, and 8 - and each version got slower and more bloated and didn't seem to add any significant new features. The attitude became full-blown hatred when I discovered their RealOne player phoning home from my computer every 10 seconds or so. I will quietly grumble about bloatware. Spyware gets an instant deletion and my eternal anomosity.

If it was anyone other than Real, I'd probably have no objection to a third-party attempt to hack together an iPod-compatible DRM. But I'd rather keep the iPod locked down forever than create a new profit-center for Real.

 

[grobbins]

The attitude became full-blown hatred when I discovered their RealOne player phoning home from my computer every 10 seconds or so. I will quietly grumble about bloatware. Spyware gets an instant deletion and my eternal anomosity.

There is no spyware in RealOne Player or in the newer RealPlayer. The Mac OS X player contacts Real's servers only at the time a user logs into the premium subscription service, or when checking for updated software every few week, and both of those are under the user's control.

 

[Doctor Q]

There is no spyware in RealOne Player or in the newer RealPlayer. The Mac OS X player contacts Real's servers only at the time a user logs into the premium subscription service, or when checking for updated software every few week, and both of those are under the user's control.

I assume your facts are correct, but what many of us are reacting to is the bad history of Real's players, which had what many of us considered intrusive habits. They have apparently cleaned up their act, but that doesn't cure the leftover bad taste.

 

[shamino]

There is no spyware in RealOne Player or in the newer RealPlayer. The Mac OS X player contacts Real's servers only at the time a user logs into the premium subscription service, or when checking for updated software every few week, and both of those are under the user's control.

I don't know about the Mac version, but the Windows version of RealOne absolutely contains spyware. I personally caught it phoning home about once a minute, even when the player isn't running. (Configuring Windows to play sounds when processes launch/quit is a good way to catch these sort of things.)

There are hidden options all over this program for it to notify you of all kinds of crazy things that nobody cares about, and it's very difficult to find them all. And even when you turn them off, their daemon program keeps on launching itself every minute, connecting to Real's server. Maybe it's just looking for RealOne updates, but it's still consuming huge amounts of CPU time and bandwidth for no good reason. (You can delete the phone-home daemon without crippling the player, but I shouldn't have to do this.)

The program also installs third-party programs (including web browser plugins, some of which are absolutely spyware) without your knowledge or consent, and they aren't deleted when you uninstall RealOne.

If their newer software doesn't do this, great, but there's no way I'm going to give them another chance. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[grobbins]

If their newer software doesn't do this, great, but there's no way I'm going to give them another chance.

Your concerns about the Windows version have been addressed in RealPlayer 10, and never applied to the Mac player. You are free to avoid the software, but your attacks are rather misleading since you did not mention that you haven't even tried the current software.

 

[shamino]

Your concerns about the Windows version have been addressed in RealPlayer 10, and never applied to the Mac player. You are free to avoid the software, but your attacks are rather misleading since you did not mention that you haven't even tried the current software.

You're way too trusting to have given them a second chance.

A corporation releases a product chock full of spyware, and then says "sorry, we won't do it again" and you believe them? Do you think they've seen the light and decided to become a good citizen? Or are they simply biding their time, waiting for the flames to die down so they can try something sneakier in the future?

Once a company expresses the attitude that your computer is theirs to use/abuse without your consent, they should never be trusted ever again. Products may change. Corporate cultures never die.

 

[grobbins]

A corporation releases a product chock full of spyware, and then says "sorry, we won't do it again" and you believe them? Do you think they've seen the light and decided to become a good citizen?

Despite ample internet rumors, RealPlayer never contained any spyware, on any platform. It has never sent any user information inappropriately to servers. While you may dislike some of the marketing features in the Windows player, it is not, and has never been, spyware. And the Mac OS X version does not even have any marketing features; it's just a media player.

There are plenty of reasons that software may be contacting company servers, but doing so does not indicate that personal information is being sent back. The only way to know what communication is occurring, or even which program is doing the communicating, is to watch the data being exchanged with a packet sniffer. Plenty of users do that; mainstream software like RealPlayer wouldn't get away with a misuse of personal data.

I'm not being trusting on this; I wouldn't stand for spyware running on any of my machines. I've been a developer on the Mac version of RealPlayer for years. The player engine for RealPlayer is open source as well; you are welcome to browse source code at http://www.helixcommunity.org. There is nothing surreptitious going on in the software.

 

[shamino]

There are plenty of reasons that software may be contacting company servers, but doing so does not indicate that personal information is being sent back. The only way to know what communication is occurring, or even which program is doing the communicating, is to watch the data being exchanged with a packet sniffer. Plenty of users do that; mainstream software like RealPlayer wouldn't get away with a misuse of personal data.

You mean like how AOL hasn't gotten away with installing known spyware like WildTangent and ViewPoint as a part of Instant Messenger? Oh I'm sorry. They have gotten away with it and nobody seems to care.

I'm not being trusting on this; I wouldn't stand for spyware running on any of my machines. I've been a developer on the Mac version of RealPlayer for years. The player engine for RealPlayer is open source as well; you are welcome to browse source code at http://www.helixcommunity.org. There is nothing surreptitious going on in the software.

A product is a lot more than just the engine, as you well know.

 

[Uragon]

I think, Apple will eventually licensed it to other companies but not in the near future. They are in the process of consolidating/weighing everything (including being euphoric with the success of iPod) and we don't know much what were the agreement/s with the recording companies and they cannot even meet the consumer demands for iPod. Let Apple enjoy first their success for being an innovative company.

What Real did I think is wrong, all they have to do is to wait...for now...

 

[iMeowbot]

You mean like how AOL hasn't gotten away with installing known spyware like WildTangent and ViewPoint as a part of Instant Messenger? Oh I'm sorry. They have gotten away with it and nobody seems to care.

Okay, so you are in essence agreeing with that Greg wrote, that people who care can see what "extra" things a program is doing without a lot of trouble, with the AOL bundle providing a good example. So then, precisely what spyware is being included in RealPlayer? Precisely what personal information is being sent? What processes are performing these activities, on what ports, and to what addresses are they sending the information?

(All this information is easily obtained, and there's no there there.)

 

[J_Lowboski]

Real "Harmony" Challenges itunes

Well... Real did it. They opened up their own music store. I wasn't sure what to think of it at first but I read someone's earlier post and it mentioned that Apple's goal is to sell ipods. I agree. Everybody knows they don't make any money on itunes its the ipod sales. Isn't a good thing for Apple that Real opened a store and the allows for downloads to play on iPods. iPod sales should grow because of this.

 

[billyboy]

Well... Real did it. They opened up their own music store. I wasn't sure what to think of it at first but I read someone's earlier post and it mentioned that Apple's goal is to sell ipods. I agree. Everybody knows they don't make any money on itunes its the ipod sales. Isn't a good thing for Apple that Real opened a store and the allows for downloads to play on iPods. iPod sales should grow because of this.

All well and good, but in order to protect the good name and maintain the functionability of their iTunes/iPod deal, Apple are duty bound to support Real. It is like some random builder turning up on your site and starting work. Dont worry mate, I know what Im doing, nothing can go wrong! Maybe it is true, but who should be forced to have to take the resposibility for this blokes work.

Likewise with Real. Maybe Real will come up trumps and do nothing to rock the iPod boat, and maybe Harmony does nothing to detract Apple developers from doing exactly what they want with their product, and maybe Apple never have to deal with anyone with an iPod who is in fact a Real customer, But even so, it is amazing to think that Real are in the least surprised that Apple is pissed at them barging in on their scene. If Apple had thought Real were likely to bring them loads of iPods sales, dont you think SJ would have invited him in? Maybe he was planning to, but clearly not in August 2004. Maybe Apple cant handle ny more iPod sales than are coming in through their own channels. Whichever way you look at it, Real are out of order.