Apple Computer Recycling Program

[Dr.Gargoyle]

A non-functional computer is a paperweight. As for functional computers, there's a point at which they are not useful for anyone, even people who have never had a computer at all--what would they do with a computer that couldn't run a modern web browser or connect to printers, let alone use an operating system that was contemporaneous with the rest of the world? Furthermore, in non-industrialized nations, where would they get power or Internet access, or even ink for printers? In this country, our own underprivileged are best served with computer access in community centers and libraries, where they don't have to worry about troubleshooting, power bills, internet access fees, and where there are people to help them use a computer. If you want to help people so poor that they've never encountered a computer, handing them an old computer isn't the way to do it.

I don't think internet access and printing is the biggest problem. It is about getting people that perhaps only have read one book in their life to experience computers. Remember that less than a decade ago these computers where top-of-the-line in our society. If I remember it correctly, the total computing power that sent the man to the moon was equivalent to a intel 286. You do NOT need massive computing power or a flashy GPU's to learn about computers. In the short run, it is about making people computer literate. In the long run, it is about making them able to get what we have. They dont need a modern computer right away for that. Besides, there are more to computers than using them. We all know that you can learn a great deal by dismantling a computer. I doubt the sub-$100 computer is designed that way.
Moreover, the sub-$100 computer as it is proposed today is very far to what we would call a computer. Isn't it better if they get to experience a real computer? I am quite sure they will get a much better understanding of how a modern computer is built and how it works, by getting to know a couple of year old computer rather than a benevolent MIT experiment gone wild.

The sub-$100 computer project is a new computer for the developing world, and a great idea. But that link you give supports shredding and smelting these old clunkers and using those raw materials in new computers that actually might be of some use to someone.

I provided the link to illustrate what the sub $100 computer project was all about. I applaude their effort, but I don't agree that this is the best way to go about it. But that is my opinion.

 

[matticus008]

Moreover, a broken computer can also be viewed as a pile of computer components where most of the component works. My point is that these computers would do MUCH more good in the hands of peopel deprived of ANY computer experience.

Diagnosing broken components, searching for replacements in the piles of hardware, reassembling, wiping hard drives, and installing software is tremendously time- and labor-intensive. Furthermore, one of the most common failures is some part of the mainboard, many of which are proprietary in some significant way (throughout the entire industry), meaning that replacements could only be pulled from the same specific model. Then you run into the licensing problem, which could easily add substantial cost to the effort. It's a waste of time and resources to piece together obsolete computers when a brand new budget PC costs barely more.

Why should people with no computer experience be handed someone else's trash? Why can't they learn what everyone else is currently using and take part in the world as it exists today? With Dell specials occasionally diving to $299, it's hard to argue for the expense of rehabilitating junk. Instead, programs to supply low-cost computers through community programs (Apple does this, as does Microsoft) should be the norm.

Added:

It is about getting these people computer literate. it is about making them able to get what we have. They dont need a modern computer right away for that. Besides, there is more to computers than just the use of them.

Getting them computer literate in "what we have" absolutely means giving them access to "a modern computer." There's nothing more than the "use of them" when you can't even get as far as using them. For people who have "read one book" in their entire lives, what is a computer with no internet access and no power supposed to teach them? That we make fancy metal boxes that could do something for them if they had a more developed civil infrastructure? It's demeaning to think that they'd be grateful for our trash just because it's more than what they have.

 

[sam10685]

good idea...

 

[yac_moda]

COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO

Well, actually I told them to used OLD outdated flash to replace hard-drives in the laptops, where there is plenty of extra room. And to make a Massive order of flash for iPods at super low prices, this way production can be ramped up easily as needed, and when they end up with left overs in their flash warehouse use the OLD flash for laptops.

There's GOLD in them thar old hardwares !!!

 

[mister880]

Apple to build in this charge to Mac Price!

No service or bundle is free it's all built into the price of a new computer from the CD-ROM drive to the towel the tech used to blow his nose while working on a the assembly of your computer.

This is an expensive add on for Apple and no doubt it will be passed off to the consumer. I say rubish!

Kevin

 

[Eniregnat]

COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO

Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?
Why would converting to flash memory drives cause Apple to offer recycling?

 

[nicksoper]

Personally, I wouldn't want to give away my 3 year old 17 inch powerbook, when I buy a new macbook. It works great and will work as a dvd player for years to come, but I think recycling is a great step and a great way for apple to lead by example.

I'm not sure how anyone could vote negatively for apple doing this, even if it just in the states. One pile of plastic and silicon that is not put in a landfill site is positive all round isn't it? And this can only lead to more of the samething from other caring suppliers. Positive all round I say.

 

[yac_moda]

Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?
Why would converting to flash memory drives cause Apple to offer recycling?

Oh, rainbows!

I can't HELP YOU !!!


I made that chilly you are eating from your relatives

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Diagnosing broken components, searching for replacements in the piles of hardware, reassembling, wiping hard drives, and installing software is tremendously time- and labor-intensive.

I agree, but all that could be done at location with help from skilled computer techies. In that way you would not just learn the how to operate a computer but also how to build it and how to fix it.

Furthermore, one of the most common failures is some part of the mainboard, many of which are proprietary in some significant way (throughout the entire industry), meaning that replacements could only be pulled from the same specific model. Then you run into the licensing problem, which could easily add substantial cost to the effort.

First of all, I believe that more or less all retired computers are still functioning. Secondly, you can still learn a lot from computer "trash" even if you are not able to build functioning computer from it.

It's a waste of time and resources to piece together obsolete computers when a brand new budget PC costs barely more.

Why should people with no computer experience be handed someone else's trash? Why can't they learn what everyone else is currently using and take part in the world as it exists today? With Dell specials occasionally diving to $299, it's hard to argue for the expense of rehabilitating junk.

$299 times x =money, vs. $0 times x = free. Moreover one solution doesn't exclude the other. There is nothing preventing us from doing both. My point is that I think there is a larger value in an old computer as a computer than as a chunk of metal.

Instead, programs to supply low-cost computers through community programs (Apple does this, as does Microsoft) should be the norm.

I couldn't agree more. But as I said one solution doesn't exclude the other. But now we are not talking about the sub-$100 computer.
I think we agree in that we should help less fortunate, we just might differ in how we should go about it.

 

[portent]

Donate it? Good luck.

World Computer Exchange is only interested in "working Pentium II and above" systems.

Computers For Charities (UK) is only interested in Pentium III and non-beige Macs.

The National Cristina Foundation won't take anything less than a Pentium II, but they'll take any Power Mac or Apple laptop.

Share The Technology also requires a Pentium II, or any Power Mac

That's just a random sample, of the ones I could find quickly. If you've got a Quadra or a Pentium I, you're out of luck. And just try getting anyone to take a broken computer. (Except for organizations that use them to train students in PC repair.)

 

[chepistolas]

Seriously, how many computers actually breaks beyond repair? 99% of all computers just get too old to run the latest and greatest on. Moreover, a broken computer can also be viewed as a pile of computer components where most of the component works. My point is that these computers would do MUCH more good in the hands of peopel deprived of ANY computer experience. They can learn from these machines and these computers would be able to propel computer illiterate people in a much more cost effective way than the sub-$100 project.

Frankeinstein computers = creating a computer from tons of little pieces of broken computers.

Even if you do create an organization for the poor to create frankenstein computers you will need the same amout of support and money that recycling plants need or possibly even more resources. And even if you do get that much support you will only help the computer Illiterate learn how to type in TextEdit or code in basic. In order to actually help out the poor become more litterate with computers, then spend that time and the support from others to raise money and buy $299 dells. For the poor to actually benefit and recieve a way out of their situation they need to learn the skills society uses. Using Frankeinstein computers only limits poor people to the technology of 10-12 years ago. What are they going to do then? Somehow they now have to find a way to buy a new computer to learn the technology of today. I believe that helping out the poor and under priviliedged people is another issue. Lets recycle old computers and possibly lower the costs of new ones. And if we want to help out the poor then lets help them have access to the computers and tools of today. This only helps society go foward instead of creating a gap.

Where is the correct spelling button?

 

[yac_moda]

No service or bundle is free it's all built into the price of a new computer from the CD-ROM drive to the towel the tech used to blow his nose while working on a the assembly of your computer.

This is an expensive add on for Apple and no doubt it will be passed off to the consumer. I say rubish!

Kevin

The greatest value in taking old MACchines back, in a conventional world, is to have your techs look at them and see how well the parts are holding up, and how often reported tech issues show up.

Customers OFTEN DO NOT COMPLAIN when they have a problem they just buy from someone else, or they live with it and get a new machine.

I AN UNCONVENTIONAL WORLD Apple would gain great value from using the old Flash from the old machines and they would build Macs from carbon nano-tubes OR HOLY bioconsumable HOTDOGs BATMAN !, what if they are going to MAKE EVERYTHING FROM TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM

These materials are SOOO strong they could just polish the case up and use them again -- maybe they are implementing my TOTALLY MODULAR AND LOCKABLE HARDENED CASE LAPTOP DESIGN I begged them to do years ago -- they modularize the iMac about half a year after my suggestions.

 

[joeconvert]

i wouldn't mind like 5% off the purchase of a new computer or something, just some very small incentive.....
do u think the apple genius can fix my old LC, it doesn't work.... just sitting their..

Wow.

Just doing something decently for the world around you isn't enough.


Not like Apple is trying to make money on this, there are substanial cost with proper disposal and recycling of old machines.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Getting them computer literate in "what we have" absolutely means giving them access to "a modern computer."

The sub-$100 computer is not will not be a modern computer as we know it.

There's nothing more than the "use of them" when you can't even get as far as using them. For people who have "read one book" in their entire lives, what is a computer with no internet access and no power supposed to teach them?

Most retired computers are still working. You don't need internet access to use a computer. I used computers pre-internet, so I know you can do it.
I did spend some time couple of years ago backpacking through remote areas in Africa and South-America. My impression was that most villages had electricity.

That we make fancy metal boxes that could do something for them if they had a more developed civil infrastructure? It's demeaning to think that they'd be grateful for our trash just because it's more than what they have.

I think you misunderstood me. I think there is a higher value in the computers we discard, than just the metal value minus the trashing cost. The western world have spent decades on talking how we should help less fortunate people. Grand idea has been proposed. Unfortunately, not much has happened. Take a tour through Mombasa and you will get an idea. Electricity but not one computer. Not even a broken "fancy metal box". I can bet you more or less all I own that if you travel over there in ten years time it will look more or less the same. They don't **** if the computer is old. Trust me on that.

 

[p0intblank]

This is cool of Apple.

But why are some people giving this story a Negative?

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Frankeinstein computers = creating a computer from tons of little pieces of broken computers.

Even if you do create an organization for the poor to create frankenstein computers you will need the same amout of support and money that recycling plants need or possibly even more resources. And even if you do get that much support you will only help the computer Illiterate learn how to type in TextEdit or code in basic. In order to actually help out the poor become more litterate with computers, then spend that time and the support from others to raise money and buy $299 dells. For the poor to actually benefit and recieve a way out of their situation they need to learn the skills society uses. Using Frankeinstein computers only limits poor people to the technology of 10-12 years ago. What are they going to do then? Somehow they now have to find a way to buy a new computer to learn the technology of today. I believe that helping out the poor and under priviliedged people is another issue. Lets recycle old computers and possibly lower the costs of new ones. And if we want to help out the poor then lets help them have access to the computers and tools of today. This only helps society go foward instead of creating a gap.

Where is the correct spelling button?

Hmmm, I think we are talking about different under priviliedged people. Your idea might work in some areas in US. You have no idea how fast knowledge travels when the learning is done on the locals own terms. Fancy projects where you hand out new, in their mind tremendously expensive, equipment often ends up as a new learjet/swiss condo for the local chief. The idea of helping under priviliedged people in poor countries isn't new. Unfortunately, most efforts seem to end up with the poor being just as poor and illiterate as they were before.

 

[sishaw]

Did you tell them this directly...

COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO

Well, actually I told them to used OLD outdated flash to replace hard-drives in the laptops, where there is plenty of extra room. And to make a Massive order of flash for iPods at super low prices, this way production can be ramped up easily as needed, and when they end up with left overs in their flash warehouse use the OLD flash for laptops.

There's GOLD in them thar old hardwares !!!

...or was it through the radio transmitter the Government implanted in your teeth?

 

[iowamensan]

This is a good thing, but may be hard to do on a large scale. I am a technology coordinator for a K-12 school, and we are still trying to get rid of all of our non-beige Macs and dead iMacs. It costs us $12 per CRT to dispose of them. We have an entire closet full of monitors from IIe's and such that we haven't gotten rid of because of cost. This summer I am looking at buying about 80 or so Macs and this would be a good chance to unload all of our junk.
I dread the idea though of having to box them all up and arrange for pickup.
Those who are suggesting to give everything old to schools, I'm sorry but we don't want your junk either. Now, if it is something from the last 3-4 years or so, sure. But from a school employee standpoint, an "old" computer is 7 or 8 years old. We have to get the most life out of them as we can.
If anyone is wondering why I am getting 80 macs in one summer, it is because I want to load up on eMacs before I fear they will be discontinued. I really hope Apple doesn't kill it off, as there are really no other viable school lab choices. but that is a different story.

 

[matticus008]

you can still learn a lot from computer "trash" even if you are not able to build functioning computer from it.

No, you can't. It's just a piece of useless crap to someone who's never hard a computer. The only value in playing around in a non-functioning computer is how to use a screwdriver, and I'd wager that almost anyone in the world could handle that without learning on the broken computer.

$299 times x =money, vs. $0 times x = free. Moreover one solution doesn't exclude the other. There is nothing preventing us from doing both. My point is that I think there is a larger value in an old computer as a computer than as a chunk of metal.

It's not $0 times x. You have to pay for storage, transportation, labor, software licensing, and so on. You're also giving up the $x per unit that comes from the recycled bits.

I couldn't agree more. But as I said one solution doesn't exclude the other.

Sure it excludes the other. A broken computer can't both be rebuilt and recycled. Working, relatively recent computers should be donated to community centers and local programs, absolutely. But the computers destined for this program shouldn't be saved from the dead--there's just no point in sorting the working or the repairable ones from the piles of computers that will come in, because almost no one would throw away a perfectly good computer.

I think we agree that access to technology should be improved. But I think that this program is not where one should look for secondhand computers and that criticism for this program is unfounded. Too many people seem to think that Apple wants their working G4 PowerBooks when they buy an Intel MacBook--that's not it at all. Why get rid of one computer just because you bought a new one? Most people would just then have two computers. This program is for people with computers they were planning on setting out with the rest of the trash, which Apple is now intercepting so that they can be recycled into brand new computers and saved from the landfill.

But naturally, there are going to be dozens more comments about "they want my computer 4 free r they crazy LOLZ!!1" before this thread is done. Gotta love the Internet, eh?

added:

The sub-$100 computer is not will not be a modern computer as we know it.

I'm not talking about the sub-$100 computers. If you want to teach people in developing countries to be computer literate, it's only fair to give them modern computers. The super-cheap laptop is designed for a different purpose than computer literacy.

Most retired computers are still working. You don't need internet access to use a computer. I used computers pre-internet, so I know you can do it.
I did spend some time couple of years ago backpacking through remote areas in Africa and South-America. My impression was that most villages had electricity.

What people need most in the developing world is a connection to the rest of the world. They don't lead our same kind of lifestyle. What did you do with your computer before the Internet? Word processing is a little pointless without printers or the Internet. Games? They're not going to marvel at being able to play Solitaire without a deck of cards.

And most villages do have electricity, but it's not plentiful, reliable, or cheap. One thing you probably noticed was that they generally tried to avoid electric lights--none of the six lamps per room style that is typical over here. Adding a computer adds a tremendous burden to very limited power grids, and try as I might, I can't think of a practical use for a computer without the Internet.

They don't **** if the computer is old. Trust me on that.

That's not the issue. If you hand them a 486 with no Internet and no printer, it is a thoroughly useless power hog. Having a computer isn't going to change anything if they don't have a use for it.

 

[Whiteapple]

Yet another reason to like apple.

I am curious as to whether this is 'America - Only' though? Have i missed a paragraph answering this?

zis is becoze zi americans dou not pollut, laike wi ze french people dou...

 

[milatchi]

Old Macs are not like old Phonebooks. You just don't collect them and recycle them every couple of years.
An old Mac is like a fine wine It gets better with age.

 

[misterman8]

Marie Antoinette would be proud of all of us tonight...

Does anyone really think that what is keeping the underprivileged down is a dearth of good computing? Last time I passed by a man sleeping on the sidewalk his sign didn't read, "will work for a 486 or Apple ][". Maybe the real solution lies in some sort of reformed social welfare or education system, or maybe something smaller like a few of us who are having an easier time spending a saturday afternoon teaching computing at a local shelter instead of thinking of all the reasons why apple's latest move to improve environmental quality is really a way to keep the disadvantaged down...

And I know its been almost 8 months since I lived in the States, but last time I checked it still is a free country, right? I mean if its not I am staying over here. Apple doesn't say you have to turn in your old computer when you buy a new one. They're just saying, "Hey, if your going to trash that old computer we'll take it and make sure its handled properly." I think its great that they are offering this service. I don't know how many people will actually use it, but its nice that its there if you want it.

 

[MacTruck]

When Dell, IBM, etc big tier makers were caught using prison labour to dump so called "recycled" components into third world villages and let the dying 6 year olds sort it out and burn all the copper out of the plastics to sell them for a living
"

Gives convicts and kids something to do. Cool.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

No, you can't. It's just a piece of useless crap to someone who's never hard a computer. The only value in playing around in a non-functioning computer is how to use a screwdriver, and I'd wager that almost anyone in the world could handle that without learning on the broken computer.

Well, I don't see how we can get any further here. I guess we just have to agree to disagree (even if that is theoretically impossible)

It's not $0 times x. You have to pay for storage, transportation, labor, software licensing, and so on. You're also giving up the $x per unit that comes from the recycled bits.

Hmmm, I tried to avoid a too lengthly cost analyze of the problem. First of all, it cost to recycle. The value you get from a computer that is totaly recycled is less than it cost. Here too you have a cost for transportation, labor, recycling facilities, and so on. The cost of recycling is higher than your profit. If not, do you really think we would have had landfills??? It woul be like burning up money.

Sure it excludes the other. A broken computer can't both be rebuilt and recycled.

What I meant was, you can both provide used computers as well as new to the people that needs it.

[snip] ...because almost no one would throw away a perfectly good computer.

Have you ever visited dump in a industrialized country? I can see you would be surprised...

I think we agree that access to technology should be improved. But I think that this program is not where one should look for secondhand computers and that criticism for this program is unfounded.

We agree and I am all for recycling, if we are talking about non-reusable trash. However, I sense that your definition of trash differs from mine.
Most people have no idea that the total environmental cost for recycling in many cases is higher if you recycle instead of burning it in industrial furnaces . There is a reason why universities have a enviromental engineers program.

Too many people seem to think that Apple wants their working G4 PowerBooks when they buy an Intel MacBook

Many recycling programs have ended up in a situation where people are trading in functional gadget (not necessarily computers) providing they buy a new gadget as a result of a too high discount. The rationale behind these programs has not been a concern about the environament, but rather an attempt to spicture the company in question as an enviromentally friendly producer. The end result being additional enviromental cost.

Bottomline: Saving the planet isn't as easy as one might think it is.

 

[Psychic Shopper]

$2900=trash

It'sa sobering thought to realise that one day your expensive mac will be a piece of trash