Apple Confirms 71.5% Revenue Sharing for Apple Music, No Royalties During Trial Period

[69Mustang]

Well I am not sure where the anecdotes are, but it seems clear to me that the lense you read this statement through is different from mine. Using my lense it seems very clear and not nebulous in any way. You sign up on day one. that is clear. you will be charged every month until you cancel. that is clear. you get the first three months for free. that is clear. Those are not anecdotes and not my interpretation, but simply what is stated. When I put this all together, the act of cancelling before the end of the free months does not seem like a leap of faith to me, but an obvious conclusion from the three facts stated. However, if you believe that because it is not explicitly state it automatically makes it a leap of faith, then my answer is that I am okay with this leap of faith. I consider it more of a skip across a line drawn on the floor.

To be ultra clear it states "until autorenewal is turned off in account settings." Is it possible to turn this off during the free trial? Yes, because you're not blocked from accessing account settings at any time.

To be fair, the anecdotes weren't yours. they belong to another poster who's having the same conversation with me. You are right though, we are looking at this through different lenses. I just want facts plainly and simply. Apple hasn't provided any facts. Since this is a new service, assuming something based on facts not in evidence just isn't for me. Every one's level of comfort with assumption is different. Admittedly you're probably right. I'd prefer you be right without the qualifier probably. Trust but verify is my motto. Right now I don't know anyone who can verify. Do you?

 

[iConnected]

Right now I don't know anyone who can verify. Do you?

This is precisely why the debate is pointless. Patience is required. The facts will follow.

 

[2457282]

To be fair, the anecdotes weren't yours. they belong to another poster who's having the same conversation with me. You are right though, we are looking at this through different lenses. I just want facts plainly and simply. Apple hasn't provided any facts. Since this is a new service, assuming something based on facts not in evidence just isn't for me. Every one's level of comfort with assumption is different. Admittedly you're probably right. I'd prefer you be right without the qualifier probably. Trust but verify is my motto. Right now I don't know anyone who can verify. Do you?

In my mind, my last line was verification. At least all the verification I need. On June 30, I should get the public beta (i am not on the dev beta program), and can then test whether Apple has blocked my ability to cancel during the free period (I am so close to 100% certainty that only you are questioning it ). AS you said, don't sign something if you are not comfortable. In the end you need to live with the consequences of signing or not signing.

 

[HenryDJP]

I doubt highly the Music subscription is contractual in any way shape or form. It does state that "until you turn off "Auto Renew" you'll be charged." I don't see how that's not clear enough. Just make sure auto-renew is not activated and walk away after the 3 month trial.

 

[4jasontv]

No it doesn't.

It's either included in the price that you're already paying for your T-Mobile plan or offered at an extra cost.

"Rhapsody unRadio is included for T-Mobile customers with our newest Unlimited 4G LTE plans, ($30 data feature), and only $4 a month for all other plans. Download and save up to 25 songs for offline listening."

http://www.t-mobile.com/offer/free-music-streaming.html

Obviously it's paid by the service charges. However they are cheaper than my other options, and I'd pay the same for the service if it wasn't included, I think free is a fair description.

 

[4jasontv]

I have T-Mobile too but don't get Rhapsody for free because I'm not on an unlimited data plan. T-Mobile only offers it for "free" when you have an unlimited plan ($30 per month more than their basic plan), otherwise it's $4 per month.

Right. And if you plan to pay for unlimited and music streaming, it's free.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Well I am not sure where the anecdotes are, but it seems clear to me that the lense you read this statement through is different from mine. Using my lense it seems very clear and not nebulous in any way. You sign up on day one. that is clear. you will be charged every month until you cancel. that is clear. you get the first three months for free. that is clear. Those are not anecdotes and not my interpretation, but simply what is stated. When I put this all together, the act of cancelling before the end of the free months does not seem like a leap of faith to me, but an obvious conclusion from the three facts stated. However, if you believe that because it is not explicitly state it automatically makes it a leap of faith, then my answer is that I am okay with this leap of faith. I consider it more of a skip across a line drawn on the floor.

To be ultra clear it states "until autorenewal is turned off in account settings." Is it possible to turn this off during the free trial? Yes, because you're not blocked from accessing account settings at any time.

I think it's worth making clear, because in many walks of life, a trial period, subscription, whatever, comes with strings attached, like you have to buy six issues or buy six bottles or subscribe for six months.

I, too, imagine that one will be able to cancel during the trial period with no obligation to pay for a subscription, but there is nothing from Apple to that effect. Ergo, it is wise to err on the side of caution, and check the fine print before signing up for the trial period of Apple Music. As Apple have not released any fine print detailing this, one has to assume that one can only cancel after paying for a subscription, as Apple have stated.

 

[69Mustang]

I doubt highly the Music subscription is contractual in any way shape or form. It does state that "until you turn off "Auto Renew" you'll be charged." I don't see how that's not clear enough. Just make sure auto-renew is not activated and walk away after the 3 month trial.

I've stated to more than one poster that more than likely cancelling the trial subscription will most likely work just like everyone says. Most likely. That doesn't discount the fact that everyone saying the trial can be cancelled by simply making sure the auto-renew is deselected is making an assumption. A good one, but an assumption nonetheless. No one can claim it as a fact. Example:

Henry tells me, "Dude, you can cancel the Apple Music trial just like you can cancel the trials to all the other music services." I pull an internet gangster move by saying, "Prove it. Show me where I can cancel free music trials from GP All Access, Spotify, Rdio, Beats, Pandora, and Apple music." You know you're right so you go to each site, pull the information on how to cancel the music trials before the subscription kicks in, and come back to MR to make me eat crow. Heck, you even include the links to each site's process so I have nothing to argue. While choking on a stone from the crow's gizzard, I get pissy because you have info on how to cancel the trials for every one of the services. 'Cept one. For some odd reason you don't list any information on how to cancel the Apple trial. It's because Apple doesn't explicitly tell you how. You can't point to one single fact that states this is how you cancel the Apple Music trial subscription. You can point to a way to cancel subscription, but not the trial. Apple should make it crystal clear. That's been my point all along. For some, it's clear enough. Maybe because it's Apple and they trust Apple implicitly. Maybe not. But would you trust it if it was the same statement on Google Play All Access or Microsoft's XBox Music Pass?

 

[69Mustang]

In my mind, my last line was verification. At least all the verification I need. On June 30, I should get the public beta (i am not on the dev beta program), and can then test whether Apple has blocked my ability to cancel during the free period (I am so close to 100% certainty that only you are questioning it ). AS you said, don't sign something if you are not comfortable. In the end you need to live with the consequences of signing or not signing.

This last line? "Is it possible to turn this off during the free trial? Yes, because you're not blocked from accessing account settings at any time." Oh, could you point me to anything in the Apple Music documentation that supports this? I almost feel as if your interpreting my statements about Apple Music as if I don't believe that it will ultimately work just as you say it will. That's not the case at all. I'm saying on 6/16/15 that footnote does not address the cancellation of the trial specifically. That's all I've ever said. Will they update the statement to be more explicit like every other music service? Maybe. Probably even. It is Apple after all. In the end, there are no consequences of note for me regarding Apple Music. Vendors compete for my dollar by providing what I want and how I want it. It's not personal. I L.O.V.E Audi's but they won't be in consideration for my next car because they don't offer a manual in the model I want. Some other company will offer a manual and they will have the opportunity to increase my debt load for the next 5 years. Either I will be satisfied with Apple's complete process and let my daughter try the service, or she will remain on my All Access account. She will be able to listen to all the music she wants regardless.

 

[HenryDJP]

I've stated to more than one poster that more than likely cancelling the trial subscription will most likely work just like everyone says. Most likely. That doesn't discount the fact that everyone saying the trial can be cancelled by simply making sure the auto-renew is deselected is making an assumption. A good one, but an assumption nonetheless. No one can claim it as a fact. Example:

Henry tells me, "Dude, you can cancel the Apple Music trial just like you can cancel the trials to all the other music services." I pull an internet gangster move by saying, "Prove it. Show me where I can cancel free music trials from GP All Access, Spotify, Rdio, Beats, Pandora, and Apple music." You know you're right so you go to each site, pull the information on how to cancel the music trials before the subscription kicks in, and come back to MR to make me eat crow. Heck, you even include the links to each site's process so I have nothing to argue. While choking on a stone from the crow's gizzard, I get pissy because you have info on how to cancel the trials for every one of the services. 'Cept one. For some odd reason you don't list any information on how to cancel the Apple trial. It's because Apple doesn't explicitly tell you how. You can't point to one single fact that states this is how you cancel the Apple Music trial subscription. You can point to a way to cancel subscription, but not the trial. Apple should make it crystal clear. That's been my point all along. For some, it's clear enough. Maybe because it's Apple and they trust Apple implicitly. Maybe not. But would you trust it if it was the same statement on Google Play All Access or Microsoft's XBox Music Pass?

Okay, I'm really not getting what you're really trying to say because the "TRIAL" part automatically goes away after 90 days. It's in writing right on Apple's website. You don't need to physically cancel a TRIAL membership. Why would that make any sense when Apple tells you to turn off Auto Renew to prevent being charged?

I thought your concern was preventing yourself from being charged immediately following the trial period. If that is your concern then simply pull your payment information off iTunes rather than shutting off Auto Renew. That's very easy to do.

 

[iConnected]

I doubt highly the Music subscription is contractual in any way shape or form. ...

If there is one thing you can be 100% certain of now, it's that an Apple Music subscription will be "contractual".

A contract (a formal and legally binding agreement) will govern your use of the service, including the free trial.

The contract will also include the provision for you to cancel a paid subscription on a rolling monthly basis - an arrangement that's known as a rolling monthly contract.

 

[69Mustang]

Okay, I'm really not getting what you're really trying to say because the "TRIAL" part automatically goes away after 90 days. It's in writing right on Apple's website. You don't need to physically cancel a TRIAL membership. Why would that make any sense when Apple tells you to turn off Auto Renew to prevent being charged?

I thought your concern was preventing yourself from being charged immediately following the trial period. If that is your concern then simply pull your payment information off iTunes rather than shutting off Auto Renew. That's very easy to do.

Yeah, you may be missing a little context. Cuban Missles and I were discussing this footnote on the Apple Music site:

• 1. Requires initial sign up. At the end of the trial period, the membership will automatically renew and payment method will be charged on a monthly basis until auto-renewal is turned off in account settings.

I said this footnote doesn't address cancelling the trial on day 23 for example. Not as a need per se, but if you find the service lacking and want to cancel on day 2 or 7 or 66 give a clear way to do it. I said Apple should be more clear about cancelling the trial before it ends because the way the footnote reads it 1. Assumes everyone will want to go the full 90 days. 2. Basically says at the end of the trial you will be charged until you turn off auto renew. 3. Doesn't address how to cancel while still in the trial. Assumptions are being made that you can go into account settings and turn off auto renew at any time during the trial. That may be true (probably is), but it's being presented as a fact when no fact exists that says it is true. My only complaint is Apple should make it crystal clear. I have no issue with auto charge at the end of trial. That's how most of the music services handle trials; the notable exception being Beats Music. You had to actually sign up for a membership after the Beats trial. The fact that every other service explicitly addresses the trial makes Apple's omission all the more glaring.

It doesn't require legalese to explicitly clear. Out of all the streaming services trials, I think Xbox Music Pass is the most succinct and to the point about cancelling. There's nothing unclear about their trial: Don’t like it? You can cancel at any time.** -XBox Music Pass. Apple gives me something as simple as that or as Gordian as a Supreme Court brief that says the same thing, they get another customer to try the service. If not, there are a gazillion more who will try the service regardless. No biggy.

 

[Tech198]

i don't get why record labels would want Apple to stream without payment.... doesn't matter what its for.

That's just nuts man.

They have guts though to even go along with this.

 

[HenryDJP]

Yeah, you may be missing a little context. Cuban Missles and I were discussing this footnote on the Apple Music site:

• 1. Requires initial sign up. At the end of the trial period, the membership will automatically renew and payment method will be charged on a monthly basis until auto-renewal is turned off in account settings.

I said this footnote doesn't address cancelling the trial on day 23 for example. Not as a need per se, but if you find the service lacking and want to cancel on day 2 or 7 or 66 give a clear way to do it. I said Apple should be more clear about cancelling the trial before it ends because the way the footnote reads it 1. Assumes everyone will want to go the full 90 days. 2. Basically says at the end of the trial you will be charged until you turn off auto renew. 3. Doesn't address how to cancel while still in the trial. Assumptions are being made that you can go into account settings and turn off auto renew at any time during the trial. That may be true (probably is), but it's being presented as a fact when no fact exists that says it is true. My only complaint is Apple should make it crystal clear. I have no issue with auto charge at the end of trial. That's how most of the music services handle trials; the notable exception being Beats Music. You had to actually sign up for a membership after the Beats trial. The fact that every other service explicitly addresses the trial makes Apple's omission all the more glaring.

It doesn't require legalese to explicitly clear. Out of all the streaming services trials, I think Xbox Music Pass is the most succinct and to the point about cancelling. There's nothing unclear about their trial: Don’t like it? You can cancel at any time.** -XBox Music Pass. Apple gives me something as simple as that or as Gordian as a Supreme Court brief that says the same thing, they get another customer to try the service. If not, there are a gazillion more who will try the service regardless. No biggy.

Not saying that you would be the only one wanting to do this, but I can't see any logic of needing to cancel before the trial ends. Okay, so what if a person doesn't care for the service? Simply make certain that auto renew is shut off on say day 23 and don't bother playing another song. Because basically there really isn't any point in turning off the trial before the end of it. Just don't play anymore streaming songs from the library.

I understand completely what you're trying to say about Apple's footnotes but could you give me a truly logical reason why turning off the trial before it ends (say like on day 23) makes any sense?

 

[Tech198]

it falls in line with everything else.

U bill HBO Now, or Netflix via itunes, u do the same thing "Turn off Auto-renewal"

Apple's way is just ... well "different" .. in a trial period. We can't fault Apple for being a little screwy.

 

[69Mustang]

Not saying that you would be the only one wanting to do this, but I can't see any logic of needing to cancel before the trial ends. Okay, so what if a person doesn't care for the service? Simply make certain that auto renew is shut off on say day 23 and don't bother playing another song. Because basically there really isn't any point in turning off the trial before the end of it. Just don't play anymore streaming songs from the library.

I understand completely what you're trying to say about Apple's footnotes but could you give me a truly logical reason why turning off the trial before it ends (say like on day 23) makes any sense?

Sure. If I know I am not going to subscribe, I'd like to be able to cancel and move on. Waiting makes no sense. Whether it's day 3, 23 or day 83, you should be able to find the info on how to do it. Right now that info, specifically on the Apple Music trial, doesn't exist. Bolded from your quote: As of today, nothing on the Apple music site says you can shut of the trial on day 23. Again, my only complaint is the lack of language that says I can end the trial early. It's on every other music site. Regardless of my reason for wanting to cancel, I should know the opportunity is there and how I can do it. I think it should be there.

It's been good debating with you, Cuban, and Grumpy. The Cavs are starting to get blown out so I am going to go cry in my beer. We can continue tomorrow if you'd like.

 

[GrumpyTrucker]

It already is tomorrow for me Mustang

I think, as I said, the fault is Apple's purely because it's the way they always handle subscriptions. Simply cancel auto renew before you're due to be charged and you're golden. In fact, as I understand it, for anything you currently subscribe to (not Apple Music since we don't know yet) once you turn off auto renew you can continue to use the service until auto renew date.

Apple just seem to be assuming everyone already knows this is how things works and evidently don't seem inclined to clarify it because - to them - it's clear already. As I said, maybe a bit of Apple arrogance is to blame. Time will tell of course. Who am I kidding? I'm in the UK, we'll probably get stiffed again anyway

 

[HenryDJP]

Sure. If I know I am not going to subscribe, I'd like to be able to cancel and move on. Waiting makes no sense. Whether it's day 3, 23 or day 83, you should be able to find the info on how to do it. Right now that info, specifically on the Apple Music trial, doesn't exist. Bolded from your quote: As of today, nothing on the Apple music site says you can shut of the trial on day 23. Again, my only complaint is the lack of language that says I can end the trial early. It's on every other music site. Regardless of my reason for wanting to cancel, I should know the opportunity is there and how I can do it. I think it should be there.

It's been good debating with you, Cuban, and Grumpy. The Cavs are starting to get blown out so I am going to go cry in my beer. We can continue tomorrow if you'd like.

Well your dismay equals my excitement. Not literally but I'm a big Warriors fan as I am from California.

About the discussion. Don't count on Apple describing verbatim on how to cancel their service. It's not good business if you really think about it. No company that wants to stay in business will make certain that potential customers are easily clear on how to cancel.

Sure, some will put it writing explicitly but they don't make sure to put it out there above all else. My take Mustang is you don't really sound like you're going to be an Apple Music customer so make it easy for yourself and don't participate in the trial period. That's what I would do if the information about canceling is most important.

 

[Wondercow]

You have your grammar and/or your intended meaning in a muddle, but someone else can play English teacher.

You are, and were, correct. There is no conditional clause in his post (if/then, unless, should, had, as long as, etc.) and the success of both the Watch and Music were linked to "hard figures". Further, if said hard figures come from anyone other than Cook the Watch and Music will still be failures, no matter how great those figures are

 

[Benjamin Frost]

You are, and were, correct. There is no conditional clause in his post (if/then, unless, should, had, as long as, etc.) and the success of both the Watch and Music were linked to "hard figures". Further, if said hard figures come from anyone other than Cook the Watch and Music will still be failures, no matter how great those figures are

My statement did have a conditional clause in it. Conditional clauses don't necessarily have to have those words cited.

At any rate, my point stands. We can assume that, in the absence of hard figures from Cook, that both the Apple Watch and Apple Music will be failures.

 

[iConnected]

You are, and were, correct. There is no conditional clause in his post (if/then, unless, should, had, as long as, etc.) and the success of both the Watch and Music were linked to "hard figures". Further, if said hard figures come from anyone other than Cook the Watch and Music will still be failures, no matter how great those figures are

My statement did have a conditional clause in it. Conditional clauses don't necessarily have to have those words cited.

At any rate, my point stands. We can assume that, in the absence of hard figures from Cook, that both the Apple Watch and Apple Music will be failures.

Let me break your sentence down for you.

1. "We can assume that" = present tense.

2. "In the absence of" = "while something isn't here; without something"*.

The something you're referring to isn't here at present - so your condition (if that's what you'd like to call it) is satisfied and this part of your sentence can effectively be reduced to "at present" - or just "now" - or removed completely.

3. "both the Apple Watch and Apple Music will be failures" = your assertion.​

At present, your sentence therefore has exactly the same meaning as saying:

"We can assume [now] that both AW and AM will be failures".

Assuming that this was not what you meant to say, there is nothing to be gained from stubbornly defending your poorly constructed sentence.

* source: McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+the+absence+of

 

[69Mustang]

Well your dismay equals my excitement. Not literally but I'm a big Warriors fan as I am from California.

About the discussion. Don't count on Apple describing verbatim on how to cancel their service. It's not good business if you really think about it. No company that wants to stay in business will make certain that potential customers are easily clear on how to cancel.

Sure, some will put it writing explicitly but they don't make sure to put it out there above all else. My take Mustang is you don't really sound like you're going to be an Apple Music customer so make it easy for yourself and don't participate in the trial period. That's what I would do if the information about canceling is most important.

The Warriors were a better team. They deserved it. Maybe next year with Love and Irving back...

OT: The funny thing is, Apple does tell you exactly how to cancel the service. Turn off auto renew. I just want clarification about the trial. Put the info in the FAQ like every other service does, boom, problem solved for me. You're right about me being an Apple Music customer. I'm not, and never was going to be. Never said I would. I use Google Play All Access and the integrated ad free Youtube is enough to make me stay. Besides, the service is great. My daughter want's to try it out. 1. Because some of her friends will be subscribing. 2. She currently shares my All Access account which means I can monitor her activity and I have explicit songs blocked on her iPhone. I still may let her try it out, but I need my concerns addressed first. The closer we get to launch, the more info will become available. By then, our discussion may be moot.

 

[JAT]

Right. And if you plan to pay for unlimited and music streaming, it's free.

Music streaming is already "free" in terms of data usage on Tmobile. If audio is a major usage for you, you can probably get by with a lesser data plan for less money, giving you wallet space to pay for a premium music service. (yes, I just implied that Rhapsody is not "premium")

 

[Benjamin Frost]

​

Let me break your sentence down for you.

1. "We can assume that" = present tense.

2. "In the absence of" = "while something isn't here; without something"*.

The something you're referring to isn't here at present - so your condition (if that's what you'd like to call it) is satisfied and this part of your sentence can effectively be reduced to "at present" - or just "now" - or removed completely.

3. "both the Apple Watch and Apple Music will be failures" = your assertion.​

At present, your sentence therefore has exactly the same meaning as saying:

"We can assume [now] that both AW and AM will be failures".

Assuming that this was not what you meant to say, there is nothing to be gained from stubbornly defending your poorly constructed sentence.

* source: McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+the+absence+of

No stubbornness involved.

'In the absence of hard figures from Tim Cook' is a conditional clause. I have condensed it by missing out the verb, which is why you think it isn't conditional. I could have written, 'if Tim Cook doesn't provide any hard figures in the future,' but I chose to shorten it for ease of reading.

Good old English.

 

[2457282]

This last line? "Is it possible to turn this off during the free trial? Yes, because you're not blocked from accessing account settings at any time." Oh, could you point me to anything in the Apple Music documentation that supports this? I almost feel as if your interpreting my statements about Apple Music as if I don't believe that it will ultimately work just as you say it will. That's not the case at all. I'm saying on 6/16/15 that footnote does not address the cancellation of the trial specifically. That's all I've ever said. Will they update the statement to be more explicit like every other music service? Maybe. Probably even. It is Apple after all. In the end, there are no consequences of note for me regarding Apple Music. Vendors compete for my dollar by providing what I want and how I want it. It's not personal. I L.O.V.E Audi's but they won't be in consideration for my next car because they don't offer a manual in the model I want. Some other company will offer a manual and they will have the opportunity to increase my debt load for the next 5 years. Either I will be satisfied with Apple's complete process and let my daughter try the service, or she will remain on my All Access account. She will be able to listen to all the music she wants regardless.

Well we can definitely agree on Audi. Love them as well, but yes if I were to buy a car, I would probably go with a Porsche Boxster at this point (the question would be if I go with paddle shifters). And to be frank with you, I do not plan to sign up for this as I prefer to own my music and am very satisfied with iTunes Radio as a way to hear new music. I will end the debate here. I am comfortable with the level at which Apple has spelled things out, but you would like it even more spelled out. No worries. Hope you get your wish and Apple spells things out with excruciating detail. We will pick up our different lenses on another topic soon I am sure.