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Apple Confirms iOS 17.4 Disables Home Screen Web Apps in the European Union

SanderEvers said:
A duopoly is not a monopoly. It's in the name.
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Yes and DMA and antigatekeeper act targets biggest players on the market. Not necessarily monopoly or even duopoly.

Funnily enough it's targeted towards Google and Facebook too, but no one seems to notice or talk about it in this context. Media makes it look like it's targeted just towards Apple. Which is not the case.
 
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turbineseaplane said:
I am charitably assuming this is somewhat rhetorical…

But if not, the answer is one of a long time period for many of us that goes back to being invested in the Mac and having the ecosystem lock in sort of “grow” until it was so all consuming it became more of a problem.

Basically sort of just happened
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Fair 👍
 
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1129846 said:
This is not that part. They are breaking features in complaying with law.
That or does Apple having to admit they have some major security issues in the OS that they have refused to address for a long time and now being massively exposed which could be very much true.
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It's only a security issue if other web browser engines are allowed for web apps. Apple never intended for other browser engines to be available on iOS.

So instead of changing the security architecture for web apps, they just removed the feature to use WebKit for web apps. Now you have to use the default browser and its browser engine.

The EU is happy because every browser is treated equally bad.
 
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Jim Lahey said:
I’m all for diversity of opinion and I’m very, very far from Apple’s greatest fan these days, but I find it odd that some people seem so emotional about a walled garden approach that Apple has been employing since Noah took sailing lessons.

Why did you guys ever become so invested in an ecosystem that you hated? Asking for a friend 👍
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I think it's because for a decade or so, right after the Mac switched to Intel CPUs, Apple was a much more open and developer friendly company. They used a Unix derivative as the new base for OS X and also dabbled a bit with open source. Some remember those times, but maybe not what was before. Turns out, that phase was only out of weakness and not the real Apple.
 
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MilaM said:
I think it's because for a decade or so, right after the Mac switched to Intel CPUs, Apple was a much more open and developer friendly company. They used a Unix derivative as the new base for OS X and also dabbled a bit with open source. Some remember those times, but maybe not what was before. Turns out, that phase was only out of weakness and not the real Apple.
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The halcyon days where even people primarily using Windows were buying MacBooks … to run Windows!!….as it was the best laptop out there, period.
 
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turbineseaplane said:
I don’t really like any of this on any side.

The mobile space desperately needs more options, both on hardware and software.
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My next phone will likely be a de-Googled Android device, but not because of Apple per se. I want to switch because, somewhat topically, overreaching regulators like the EU are making it increasingly dangerous to have all one’s digital eggs in the same big tech basket.
 
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MilaM said:
I think it's because for a decade or so, right after the Mac switched to Intel CPUs, Apple was a much more open and developer friendly company. They used a Unix derivative as the new base for OS X and also dabbled a bit with open source. Some remember those times, but maybe not what was before. Turns out, that phase was only out of weakness and not the real Apple.
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Also fair, although iPhone has never been open season so I still find it slightly odd.
 
zorinlynx said:
I only use one PWA app (Beestat) and it wouldn't be a huge loss to have it load as a web page, but still. Apple is being so petty here. They really should just open the platform and let users install whatever they want (with proper security warnings).
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Yep PWA is running the same HTML/JS/CSS as Beestat running in your browser. If you are using Safari just be sure to go to the website once a week. If you forget (perhaps while on vacation) all your Beestat data will have been auto-deleted by Safari when you get back to Beestat.
 
Allowing companies to host their own app stores is far better than allowing PWA. PWA is basically a free ticket into whatever a user is crazy enough to load on their device. Give me an App Store that has to approve and keeps things safe any day.
 
Timo_Existencia said:
You missed my point. The walled-garden approach IS the method by which Apple is seeking to gain market share from Android. By going directly after Apple’s advantage, and giving it to Android, does more to strengthen Android, who is already overwhelmingly dominant in the EU. It’s a silly strategy. And it isn’t really about so-called duopolies, etc. It’s simply the EU understanding they have no real players in this market, so instead of incentivizing their own business to get better and compete, they’re just trying to regulate and fine the other players.
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Walled garden to get more market share... That is a laugh. Walled garden is to get more money but it is not helpful to the users. It sure as hell is not for security.
Walled garden is just for greed purposes and at most gives the illusion of safety.
 
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hacky said:
Why are you so passive aggressive and offensive?

You never stated your source before.
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He quoted a number that was mentioned on the last Apple investors call. There I think the CFO said that 7% of Apple's global services revenue is from the EU. I don't think you can find this number in any other official publication from Apple.
 
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traveler01 said:
The entire thing its just bad for them.

1st, they can't make a simple feature that's available in Android with every browser engine? 2nd they just decided to remove in every browser on iOS, including Safari?

This is clearly a revenge on the consumer by Apple.
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They can, but it will require a lot of resources because Apple needs to change the security architecture for web apps.

Android has a different architecture and has supported this for a long time.
 
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1129846 said:
Walled garden to get more market share... That is a laugh. Walled garden is to get more money but it is not helpful to the users. It sure as hell is not for security.
Walled garden is just for greed purposes and at most gives the illusion of safety.
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It is a large part of why I buy Apple. And even though imperfect, I trust Apple’s approach to security more than I trust Google. It may not be what you want, but to assume that it’s not what many people want would seem to fly in the face of Apple’s sales, no?

So yes, Apple distinguishes itself from Google, in part, with its walled-garden ecosystem. Which I like. Even if you don’t.
 
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MilaM said:
He quoted a number that was mentioned on the last Apple investors call. There I think the CFO said that 7% of Apple's global services revenue is from the EU. I don't think you can find this number in any other official publication from Apple.
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Thank you for the clarification. In such case his number is incorrect if it's just about services. I would believe it does not count revenue from selling HW. If I get that correctly.
 
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bodhisattva said:
Allowing companies to host their own app stores is far better than allowing PWA. PWA is basically a free ticket into whatever a user is crazy enough to load on their device. Give me an App Store that has to approve and keeps things safe any day.
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Why isn't Apple worried about that on the Mac?

Users handle it just fine

And, more high level, shouldn't users be allowed to be "crazy enough to load on their device" --- anything they care to?

Why is Apple telling you what you can do on your own phone?

(control and money is why)
 
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MilaM said:
In the beginning you could actually side-load native apps on iPhones. You could also build them from source and load them on you own iPhone. They closed those "loopholes" gradually.
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An excellent point -- I used to have my IPAs backed up in a folder on my Mac in the early iOS days

They've pulled the walls up slowly over time
 
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hacky said:
Thank you for the clarification. In such case his number is incorrect if it's just about services. I would believe it does not count revenue from selling HW. If I get that correctly.
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Yes. Services is a category in Apple's income statement. Everything that is not hardware. Could also be AppleCare or AppleCard revenue or subscriptions for AppleTV.
 
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hans1972 said:
They can, but it will require a lot of resources because Apple needs to change the security architecture for web apps.

Android has a different architecture and has supported this for a long time.
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They are worth trillions of dollars, they have the biggest tech resources in the market. You think they didn’t have an alternative to allow this?

They literally have MacOS where you can install third party apps and do all the things you want, at this point they’re just being anti consumer because they want to.
 
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hacky said:
Yes and DMA and antigatekeeper act targets biggest players on the market. Not necessarily monopoly or even duopoly.

Funnily enough it's targeted towards Google and Facebook too, but no one seems to notice or talk about it in this context. Media makes it look like it's targeted just towards Apple. Which is not the case.
Click to expand...

DMA is designed the way it is to hurt foreign companies who try to be successful in the EU. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a "good looking" legislation that in practice will hurt consumers of these products the most. Just like GDPR and DSA.
In the end every bit of these legislations will achieve the opposite from what most people would think they do.

GDPR: Now every single website is going to ask you for "consent" with tracking ads. They often do this using dark patterns or no real way to decline.
DSA: Large communities are forced to monitor and block "desinformation" without actually mentioning what this "desinformation" actually is. Which would end in basically a wild west of platforms censoring opinions they don't like.
DMA: It would look like it gives the users more choice, but in the end it is to force mega corporations to open up their systems to smaller companies within the EU. Which would lead to.. well.. this.

All of these is to take control from the citizens or national legislation and hand them to the EU.
 
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